Open Source E-cig project

[BarryK]

I raised this subject in another message but, being buried deep in another discussion, it seems to have not raised much interest, though I'd re-post to see if members think that there may be some merits in such a project.

There have been some wonderful ldeas on here, most of them by non-technical people, but some of those ideas are very valid.

What I'd like to see is an 'open source project' type of discussion on e-cigs, batteries & atomisers in particular.

The aim of this would be to investigate some of the ideas that people have had, but who are unable, for whatever reason, to advance their ideas.

Hopefully the group would consist of a good sprinkling of people with knowledge of Electronics maybe, or the ability and tools to build/machine any mechanical device required in the quest for a better e-cig.

This would mean that anything discussed would be considered to be in the public domain and not the intellectual property of any one person (or even the group, as a whole)

The project would need to be fairly well disciplined - and posts would have to be kept strictly 'on topic' to make it work.

Not sure if this could be achieved on a forum such as this, I think that a Yahoo group may be a better bet.

Initially, if anyone is interested please reply to this thread.

If there is enough interest, and after some discussion here, I'll set up a Yahoo group, which would be open to all.

PS - in case anyone is wondering, I'm a retired instrument technician with many years experience of repair and maintenance of fine mechanical, pneumatic and electronic instrumentation.

I now have a small but very well equipped workshop capable of producing those little (and not so little!) components that are often needed for projects such as this.

I also have a working knowledge of basic electronics - any help I can offer along these lines will be given freely.

(Wasn't someone recently enquiring about a 'universal adapter' gismo that would allow any atomiser to fit any battery? - this is the sort of component i'm talking about)

I'd hope that we can get one or two more like me, and some electronics experts prepared to help in similar ways.

Thanks for reading this........
Barry
_____

 

[MagusSteele]

Not a bad idea to consolidate different and useable ideas in one place.
I was a machinest but seem better at design and engineering.
I understand electronics, but never finished the classes. Only got as far as electrician.

There isnt many things needed for a good e-cig design.
Good battery
good switch
good atomizer
Large reservoir
Cigar size or smaller

 

[bribri]

Well I for one think the quest has ended. We have the Janty Kissbox, The Screw Driver, the puresmoker 901b... Honestly any more nicotine and I would be getting sicker not better. I already get to the point of slight stoned on these things which is a level I never achieved on any analog cig. We saw I already changed my mind - I wanted the quest for the smallest model that worked. It ended up being a stupid idea, not only do the small ones suck, but really we have found that they are more socially acceptable the less they look like analogs ,not more. We have defeated our charging issue, we are about to defeat our disposable atomizor issue... we dont have a vapor issue anymore, I mean you saw how much vapor just4747 let out from the SD, it was nearly a disturbing amount. almost grotesque. And we found that juice for these things is easy to make, and you can buy some of the best stuff at organic markets. I think except for the unrealiability of manufacturing and sales we have grown to the point where we don't need anymore "beat the manufacturers at their own game" technologies. I get enough fill and I feel no frustration with the ecig industry any longer.

 

[Grenage]

I would say there is a hell of a lot of work to be done on e-cigs. The liquid delivery method for starters; so I think this is a nice idea.

 

[MagusSteele]

All things can and should be improved, even the SD and KB.
Infact, Janty is updateing and researching all the time.

The SD is a good idea, but personally i dislike the switch configuration.
I am pretty sure you can get different types of batteries as well making it thinner.

Atomizers really need a redesign or update, but that is probably beyond the garage machanic.

 

[dc2k08]

I think its a fantastic idea BarryK. in fact you might want to get in touch with a dutch poster named knutselpeter. unfortunately he does not post here often but his friend and accomplice called yo han does. what i hear from yo-han and i hope he will correct me if i am wrong, is that it was knutselpeter who created the proto-type for what the kiss box is designed around and it was also an open-source project initiated by him.

It seems to me that Trog has solved the battery problem in as much as lithium cell technology will allow, giving us a simple device that takes a robust sized battery that can be changed as necessary and offers users at least a day's worth of vaping on a single charge. In an open source project, I would like to replicate this model unless we can think of newer power source of which there are currently a few options though perhaps a little expensive.

As for the atomizer though, I think Jarvis has really brainstormed some worthwhile ideas to pursue, my favourite of which was a cartridge which was filled only with liquid which was then transfered to the atomizer coil via a wick almost like a zippo. He even knocked up some drawings which i hope i could find again, if i looked.

He also had the idea of an atomizer that could be opened without difficulty and allowed the user to replace the part which had broken for a few of pennies worth of parts. its no secret that manufacturers would rather have consumers replace entire devices than be able to fix the one or two broken parts to keep the cycle in action and profits large, so i think any open-source project we could create should be configured to be made very easily modifiable.

unfortunately im not very deft at electronics in general but i do dabble in illustrating them. so i would be happy to help out by knocking up some clean vector blue prints as needed. I can send you a link to some examples of my work to show you what i mean. I hope this project gets up and running and with the combined brain power that is evident on this well-used forum we should be able to come up with the mother of all e-cigs.

 

[Bertrand]

Sounds like a great idea. As others have mentioned, the battery and switch problem isn't so much of a problem any more, but a more effective cartridge and reliable atomizer definitely are.

I'm not sure that interchangeable parts are really possible or even desirable, though: obviously smaller designs will demand smaller components which will not suit larger designs.

I'm also a bit unclear about the "open source" thing. In this case, it would be a patent rather than a copyright, so if you wanted a GPL style license you would be looking at USD5000 and several years just to get the patents you would need to do this internationally. Having created prior art would prevent others from patenting it, though, and in that sense would keep it in the public domain.

In the other sense of "open source" - being able to look inside the design - all the e-cigarettes are effectively open source, in that ripping them open is as good as if not better than reading about how they work.

I guess there is a third meaning of "open source": having a bunch of people willingly work on something for no monetary reward.. hehe. That's probably the one.

 

[MagusSteele]

I was thinking "Open Source" like Sourceforge.net
Just an open exchange of ideas, and if someone wanted to make them for the group that would be fine. If they wanted to sell them openly fine too.
No Patents needed.

One thing you could start with are adaptors.
The 901 and 801 are kings, so threaded adaptors from one to the other would be great.

Wanted to add this too.
I would have to ReRead trogs notes, i know he used a bunch of different batteries, but I was thinking something like this might be a good start. Its the same width as the Pen battery, but would need a container/cylinder of course.
http://www.szwholesale.com/ultrafirereg-lithium-500mah-rechargeable-p-745.html

 

[Di]

here is a little project for you guys who want to try.
several people on this forum have said that the best atomizer is the DSE 901 and best battery is DSE801
soooooooo
hows about a nice little adapter to attach 901 atomizer to 801 battery ?????

would it be possible,
just a thought.....
dikerry

 

[MagusSteele]

Umm, Good Idea

 

[billyboy689]

currently using this
battery is good for 2 days easy
updated stainless steel tube from 1.6 to 2.0 mm thick , really @#$% strong !
making a better one at the moment - nicer switch , shorter tube, better battery holder , neater wiring and neater end caps
everything is interference fit - it just pushes into the tube nice and snug
no screws or bolts
the only things that cost are the batteries,charger switch and atomiser

 

[PeteMcArthur]

here is a little project for you guys who want to try.
several people on this forum have said that the best atomizer is the DSE 901 and best battery is DSE801
soooooooo
hows about a nice little adapter to attach 901 atomizer to 801 battery ?????

would it be possible,
just a thought.....
dikerry

Here's one I bodged earlier

 

[BarryK]

I was thinking "Open Source" like Sourceforge.net
Just an open exchange of ideas, and if someone wanted to make them for the group that would be fine. If they wanted to sell them openly fine too.
No Patents needed.

Thats exactly right, a free and open exchange of information to be used in anyway that anyone wishes.

All the information will be in one place with direct links to any files, photos or drawings that anyone may submit.

Anyway this is looking like it might be a goer - I'll give it a couple of days and then I wll see about starting a dedicated Yahoo group.

Cheers
Barry

PS - if anyone wants to send me any dead examples of items that need adaptors I'll see what I can do.

Should be able to knock 'em out at very low cost if enough people want 'em.

I'm not looking to make a fortne, just enought to cover costs with a bit on top to keep me supplied with high nic liquid whilst I'm beavering away at the machines..... :0)

Cheers
Barry

 

[Di]

little adapter to attach 901 atomizer to 801 battery ?????

does it work,

dikerry ......

 

[Di]

it looks great billyboy,
can't wait till it is available///

dikerry

 

[PeteMcArthur]

little adapter to attach 901 atomizer to 801 battery ?????

does it work,

dikerry ......

Yes!!

Instructions:
1: Chop end off 901 battery
2: Chop end off pen style atomiser
3: Solder together taking care not to short anything out
4: Swear loudly when you pick it up as the little sod is still hot
5: Check with a multimeter for continuity / shorts
6: Attach the appropriate bits then vape!

Seriously when I do another one I'd leave some of the tubing on to make a more solid mechanical joint, this one is quite fragile and I suspect trying a bit solder job would melt the internal insulators.

It'll have to wait as I'm out off duff kit ATM, but feel free to give it a go.

 

[Bertrand]

These connectors are just brass aren't they? You could make a very strong bond using silver solder.

 

[PeteMcArthur]

These connectors are just brass aren't they? You could make a very strong bond using silver solder.

Yes you could, but I did it just to prove it could be done. I'm happy enough dripping my penstyles and the 901s go on the screwdriver. I don't want to start producing them. I may have another go when duff components are available.

One thing to note is that the connectors are not as sturdy as they look. The 801 atomiser connector is OK but the 901 battery connector needs to be treated with some care.

Of course a really twisted person would make a 801 atomiser to go on a 901 battery to get the worst of both worlds

 

[Satire]

I think a close, open sharing of ideas and improvements would be quite beneficial, it seems we have at least a few knowledgeable electronics guys on this forum already, as well as non-technical people with valid ideas for improvements. Perhaps a better networking tool than combing through tons of posts on various sections of this forum would allow a faster flow of ideas, and possibly allow for input for those who have the ability to help, but don't usually flip through every thread on the forum on a daily basis.

I also think a similar open source approach to eliquid formulas would benefit everyone, as many people have reported muscle aches, sore throats, sores in the mouth, peeling of the nasal membranes, acne breakouts/rashes, and everything from explosive ........ to cold sweats and headaches. The DIY liquid section offers this to a limited degree, but for the most part it is just things like nicotine extractions and very basic stuff. Ludo of Jantyshop supplied the chemical list for the basic ingredients common to every liquid/cart he sells, and I haven't even checked out half the chemicals yet and have already found some things that simply should not be inhaled (especially on a daily basis!). For example, every liquid from him contains vanillin, warnings I have found on the safety data from chemical suppliers include but are not limited to (spent 3 hours gathering info on a different ingredients and posted in the health section last night, not going to repost them all) May affect genetic material (mutagenic). May cause adverse reproductive effects based on animal test data. Chronic Potential Health Effects:
Inhalation: Prolonged or repeated inhalation may affect the brain and blood (changes in white and red blood cell count).
The essentials like PG and alcohol and such aren't too bad, and anything inhaled regularly is going to have some risks with it, but who knows what other non-essential, potentially dangerous things are being added to the common brands we know so well? Last time I checked most of the suppliers are not health professionals and are making it themselves from ingredients which even they are not fully aware of the dangers of. An open sharing of ingredients would be the fastest way to create a safer liquid, gotta remember the FDA isnt holding our hand on this one (yet), so we should work on making the formula as safe as possible, which seems very do-able with a little cooperation. Step one is knowing what is in it.

 

[taz3cat]

I would like to know how to take the adomizers apart without tearing them up. Anyone know how? This would be good informatin for anyone who mite want to repair one.