pbusardo's video of the P3!

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I don't normally answer "hair on fire......mind is blown" posters but this is an exception.


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I don't know what this means.

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SAFE refers to not allowing some .......(insert your own words) new vaper blow his/her face off.

are you actually under the impression that 5+ amps will "blow" a 3.7 volt lithium ion battery?

even twice that amount won't come close to causing trouble.

(one thing Provari could do, that would be helpful, is have it limit the device to a certain amperage based on what size battery was in it. ie, 18650 limited to xx amps, 19350 limited to x amps, etc)

I agree there should be some kind of ceiling, but making it 20w is completely arbitrary on Provape's part. there have been 30w devices out for how long now, and 50+w devices coming out every week. releasing a 20w-limited device at the end of 2014, really!? they should either release it with a 35 - 40 watt limit, or design it so people can (unofficially) "jailbreak" the device.

many sports cars put a governor on the speed that limits it to 155mph, simply because it will damage them. Provape is planning to introduce a device that won't even go the speed limit. imagine if Audi introduced a car that only went 50mph. sure, the 'Audiati' would rave about the interior, how great their customer service is and argue that country roads are just as convenient as highways, but everyone else would just laugh.


does anyone remember New Coke or Crystal Pepsi? smart companies listen to feedback and correct course. it will be interesting to see what Provape does.
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imagine BMW introduces their new motorcycle, that everyone has been waiting for, and this is the "sneak peek" they release.

they had too, they say, because they "couldn't guarantee safety" without it.
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[protocol]

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Yeah I'm pretty underwhelmed too. My Sigelei 20w does all that except the hot boost, and probably cost me 1/4 what a P3 is going to cost.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure it's going to be a great device and rock solid from the bottom up, but for the price (I'm betting on a minimum $300 price tag) it should have a lot more power than it does.

I agree with your comment aside from the "don't get me wrong" part.

imo folks in the "vaping community" often walk on eggshells, when discussing certain products, as if these aren't companies but instead their friend's band (you'll see this in video reviews, where the reviewers are VERY reluctant to actually criticize a product, even when criticism is obviously warranted). Provape will either listen to feedback, both positive and negative, and move forward OR they can listen to the "Provnatiwhatever" club (upthread) and simply release new dragon engravings and glow-in-the-dark tubes.

if people want Provape to succeed, and continue making great devices, they should be willing to give feedback without feeling the need to add qualifiers.


imo the P3, as shown so far, is Provape's New Coke. hopefully they'll listen, like Coca-Cola did, and make a few changes.
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[slappy3139]

Provape's going to do what they feel is in their best interest, they're not trying to get the high wattage vapers out there. If that's what you're after, then move along and find your next best thing, the p3 is obviously not for you.

 

[protocol]

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Provape's going to do what they feel is in their best interest, they're not trying to get the high wattage vapers out there. If that's what you're after, then move along and find your next best thing, the p3 is obviously not for you.

selling a 20w device isn't "in their best interest."

plenty of people on this thread, and others on this forum, have said they vape above 20 watts. these people are not "cloud chasers" or kids running around in baggy pants--they're current, former and possibly future Provari owners. yes 40, 50 watts etc is somewhat ridiculous, but offering up--at the end of 2014(!!!)--a product that tops out at 20w is sad. how long ago did the Evolv DNA 30 come out? have there been a lot of injuries that I never read about? have people been turning their liquid into acrolein?

people are laughing at this.

ProVape's biggest mistake was the "factory tour" clips with Phil Busardo. I was about to buy a mini at the time, and I assume others held off waiting for this device (P3) as well. they not only cannibalized their own sales but also MASSIVELY failed to manage expectations (all I've heard this week is "LOL, 20 watts!?")

note: big respect to Phil Busardo for the clips, they were great. but ProVape should've known better than to announce a product that early. there has to be TONS of people like me, who held off on buying, that are now disappointed. if they hadn't announced the P3 then, not only would I be vaping a Provari right now, but I would also be one more customer "in the fold" and less likely to look at the P3 critically (as the "Provanti" club folks are).

very disappointing.


and btw, the Provari "fans" here are way too sensitive. if you're genuinely a fan you should be offering up feedback, telling ProVape you're not interested in New Coke, Crystal Pepsi, Apple Copland or Microsoft Bob.


cheers, to the folks who aren't overly-sensitive about the tubes they put batteries in which, I would guess, are the vast majority.
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[protocol]

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everyone claims to love Jenny.

Jenny has been binge drinking for the past two years.

Larry says that's just "how Jenny is" and she'll "do what she wants."

Tom disagrees and finally tells Jenny "DAMNIT GIRL, GET OFF THE @#%&in' SAUCE!!!"


now, who "loves" Jenny more--the one who didn't want to rock the boat or the one who spoke up?


(yeah, lame metaphor, but most of them are--you get my point Provari "fans" should speak up. if anything changes it will change in the next month or so; after that it will be too late.)

cheers.

 

[Ryuukon]

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I agree with your comment aside from the "don't get me wrong" part.

imo folks in the "vaping community" often walk on eggshells, when discussing certain products, as if these aren't companies but instead their friend's band (you'll see this in video reviews, where the reviewers are VERY reluctant to actually criticize a product, even when criticism is obviously warranted). Provape will either listen to feedback, both positive and negative, and move forward OR they can listen to the "Provnatiwhatever" club (upthread) and simply release new dragon engravings and glow-in-the-dark tubes.

if people want Provape to succeed, and continue making great devices, they should be willing to give feedback without feeling the need to add qualifiers.


imo the P3, as shown so far, is Provape's New Coke. hopefully they'll listen, like Coca-Cola did, and make a few changes.
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That's not quite what I was referring to. By my "don't get me wrong" part, I was referring to the P3 probably being more resilient than any other 20w device out there. That in and of itself is why most of us (myself included) own Provape products. The craftsmanship and the great customer service.

I've got a Cana clone that I'm expecting (and expected when I bought it) to die soon-ish so I can gut it and put a real DNA30 board in. I've got a Sigelei 20w that already has a button that sticks after having it for less than 2 months. My Vamo V3 died awhile back after only a few months. My MVP V2 I've had to repair the 510. I could continue on with a laundry list of mods (both regulated and mechanical) that I have, or have had in the past, that I've either had to fix or toss.

There are only 2 that I have right now that haven't flaked out on me once. My Cool Fire I (weird huh?) and my Provari.

Now we all know that the price tag on the P3 is going to be higher than a Provari 2.5. That was pretty much a given when they said they weren't stopping 2.5 production. Having 2 competing products in a limited market like this isn't good business. So saying that, it's pretty obvious the P3 is going to be pushing the $300 price point, possibly higher.

And I think that's where the problem is. At least it is for me.

Let's be honest here. If they were to release the P3 at a little higher than the 2.5 price and reduced the price of the 2.5 a little (I mean come on, it's old tech) I don't think there would be as much of an uproar. The P3 would still be a newer, meaner, more powerful device than a 2.5, but with all that complex circuitry, I doubt it will be able to stand up to punishment nearly as well as the 2.5 can. So you would have the new, more powerful device, and the device that can survive whatever you dish out.

I don't think Provape ever wanted to compete with DNA30s. It's just not what they've been about. Thus they stuck with the 20w range. The problem imo is how they went about it, because it didn't really warrant a new device. A new device is what you do when you do something groundbreaking. The P3 isn't groundbreaking. Maybe for Provape it is, but not for the vaping world. I think at this point, after seeing all the reactions to the P3, they should have just stuck with the Provari 2 design, at the same price point, and brought out a new higher amp board for it.

But hey, that's just me.

 

[slappy3139]

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selling a 20w device isn't "in their best interest."

plenty of people on this thread, and others on this forum, have said they vape above 20 watts. these people are not "cloud chasers" or kids running around in baggy pants--they're current, former and possibly future Provari owners. yes 40, 50 watts etc is somewhat ridiculous, but offering up--at the end of 2014(!!!)--a product that tops out at 20w is sad. how long ago did the Evolv DNA 30 come out? have there been a lot of injuries that I never read about? have people been turning their liquid into acrolein?

people are laughing at this.

ProVape's biggest mistake was the "factory tour" clips with Phil Busardo. I was about to buy a mini at the time, and I assume others held off waiting for this device (P3) as well. they not only cannibalized their own sales but also MASSIVELY failed to manage expectations (all I've heard this week is "LOL, 20 watts!?")

note: big respect to Phil Busardo for the clips, they were great. but ProVape should've known better than to announce a product that early. there has to be TONS of people like me, who held off on buying, that are now disappointed. if they hadn't announced the P3 then, not only would I be vaping a Provari right now, but I would also be one more customer "in the fold" and less likely to look at the P3 critically (as the "Provanti" club folks are).

very disappointing.


and btw, the Provari "fans" here are way too sensitive. if you're genuinely a fan you should be offering up feedback, telling ProVape you're not interested in New Coke, Crystal Pepsi, Apple Copland or Microsoft Bob.


cheers, to the folks who aren't overly-sensitive about the tubes they put batteries in which, I would guess, are the vast majority.
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I'm pretty sure Provape has a pretty good idea who their target customers are and they have stated it's not subohm vapers. I myself am on the fence on if I will get one, as I am presently enjoying my reos more than I do my provaris. I'm just saying I think the P3 will sell well, God knows they sell plenty of provaris. I really don't think they have missed the boat on this, I personally would have preferred a higher power capable device from Provape, but I am probably not the typical vaper that this device is aimed at, IMO.

 

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re: people saying "I don't go above 20 watts."

most people probably don't. but many of those willing to pay Provape's prices will at least want the option to.

most Porsche owners probably don't go over 80mph much--however, they don't want to buy a car that's hobbled.

this device will be hobbled.

just knowing you CAN'T go above a certain wattage--and one that isn't even that high, will keep people away. even if they don't use it (higher watts) regularly, they will think "but with this I don't even have the option."


also, Provape has said they couldn't (paraphrase) "guarantee safety" above this (arbitrary) amount. that means one of two things: 1) Provape themselves can't engineer a device that can safely go above 20 watts, or 2) practically everyone else in the industry is being (in their opinion) "unsafe."

now, knowing Provape and the quality stuff they turn out, I think there's about 0% chance it's 1). so the rest of the industry is reckless?

(fwiw, I think there's a TON of ridiculousness in the vaping industry and "community," but I don't think companies like Evolv and Innokin are part of that. they haven't had problems with 30 watt devices, and they'll likely come out with ones that go higher--if someone wants the option to do so.)
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[chadsmo]

also, Provape has said they couldn't (paraphrase) "guarantee safety" above this (arbitrary) amount. that means one of two things: 1) Provape themselves can't engineer a device that can safely go above 20 watts, or 2) practically everyone else in the industry is being (in their opinion) "unsafe."

now, knowing Provape and the quality stuff they turn out, I think there's about 0% chance it's 1). so the rest of the industry is reckless?

Exactly.

When you say that you feel doing something is unsafe you are also saying that you feel everyone doing it isn't being safe. It's ridiculous that would even say that.

The board in the P3 is 100% capable of 30 watts , that's the really annoying part about the whole thing. A 1.2 coil at 6 volts is 30 watts and 5 amps, bang on with the voltage and amperage limit.

 

[Stubby]

The great majority of people do not vape above 20 watts, or even 14.5 watts (the current limit of the 2.5). The potential target consumer for the P3 includes well over 90% of the market. It's a hoot reading post from high watt cloud chasers claiming they are the norm, when in reality high watt users are very much the minority. There are a small number (compared to the total number of users) of hard core users that are into high watt vaping. I don't have the numbers but I would guess the MVP 2.0 out sells everything and anything in the high watt market by many times.

Nearly all high watt users vape at very low nicotine levels, for obvious reasons. Simply upping the nicotine level eliminates the need for the hassle and risk (and that includes potential health risk) of high watts.

I have never heard a rational argument of the need for ultra high power, and it appears one doesn't exist. From what I have read there is a lot of bravado among high watt users but very little substance.

 

[chadsmo]

I find the vape with 3mg juice at 70 watts to be much more satisfying than 12mg at 15 watts. Once you move in to higher wattages and realize how much better it can be it's very hard to go back. How long is the P3 supposed to last them without upgrading it ? Two years ? Three years ? Three years is a very long time and I think that most regulated devices will be 30-40 watts as a bare minimum by then and the upper end will be 120-200 on most high power stuff.

There's a reason why evolv sells DNA30s as fast as they can make them.

 

[Stubby]

I find the vape with 3mg juice at 70 watts to be much more satisfying than 12mg at 15 watts. Once you move in to higher wattages and realize how much better it can be it's very hard to go back. How long is the P3 supposed to last them without upgrading it ? Two years ? Three years ? Three years is a very long time and I think that most regulated devices will be 30-40 watts as a bare minimum by then and the upper end will be 120-200 on most high power stuff.

There's a reason why evolv sells DNA30s as fast as they can make them.

If you know your history you would know that evolv has had supply issues in the past. It seems to be a theme with them. In the past they had a high demand for the Darwin (the only real competitor to the Provari at the time), and then with no explanation as to why they dropped the product. I haven't kept up with the market but from what you are saying it appears there spotty supply issues continue.

Your prediction of the future sounds like something I could find at a carnival fortune teller. If you are not satisfied with 12 mg, try 18 or 24. Using 24 mg at fifteen watts (if done correctly) will knock the socks of just about anyone. If that doesn't do it for you then there are other issues that have nothing to do with the subject at hand.

An interesting observation is that nearly all high watt users are young and male. No doubt you could come up with some exceptions, but not a whole lot. Follow that lead and we might get to the heart of the issue.

 

[chadsmo]

I'm not talking about nic and head rush etc when I say satisfying. I'm talking about density and warmth of the vapour.

 

[slappy3139]

Once you become accustomed to using rdas, and really start tasting the flavor you can get at higher wattages, there's no turning back, it is hard to explain but it is a fact for me. I am not chasing clouds or building super subohm coils, but vaping on a dual coil, small chamber atty at .65 ohms and 25 watts is my personal vaping nirvana. It's not only about nicotine delivery, but also the enjoyment you get out of the experience. I would think most higher wattage vapers will tell you the same thing.

 

[T1lVl]

I vape .6 at 30. I have to agree with slappy

The.flavor, warmth and how fast you get a full hit.

I will nevet do 50, 100 ect. But I could live I the 30 to 40 range.

 

[Stubby]

Anyone who isn't a young male raise your hand.....

 

[winder]

Anyone who isn't a young male raise your hand.....

I'm old enough to join AARP and currently vaping a mech with a VTC5 running a dual 0.4 RDA with 18mg soaked Koh Gen Do. Not really high power at about 40W, but after vaping my ProVaris/Russians all week at 7.7W I just gotta let loose.

 

[chadsmo]

Anyone who isn't a young male raise your hand.....

Nearly 40 and vaping a mech at 90 watts as I sit here.

I can do 30 watts at 1.2 and get a decent vape , if Provape smartens up and gets rid of the stupid 20 watt max I'll buy a P3.

 

[Stubby]

Nearly 40 and vaping a mech at 90 watts as I sit here.

I can do 30 watts at 1.2 and get a decent vape , if Provape smartens up and gets rid of the stupid 20 watt max I'll buy a P3.

What is it that drives you to think that every piece of equipment on the market must meet your demands. I am not seeing non-high watt users jumping into discussions for high watt equipment insisting on the ignorance of the device (though they would have a much better case to be made then the present situation). The 20 watt limit is not at all stupid for the great majority of users, now and into the future. It's just about right for a limit, though not many folks who buy a P3 will every go that high.