Penelope V3

[imeothanasis]

chief, I always learn, thats my style. But I cant learn again what I already know.

First of all, the fact that we are not sick, doesnt mean that we will not be sick in future. Like analog cigarettes, we stay healthy the first 20 years and then problems start slowly until they become big. That way, we can start smoking again, we dont need e-cigs.

You didnt really read my above post about red hot wires. Its ok, we can disagree. But I force people to read more about this issue. At the end, its their choice. My choice is not to burn metals for several reasons, especially for the oxides they produce and they are very harmful.

If you want me to say it in simple English, you vape rust

I have a degree in Electrical Engineering, doesn't mean I can't learn. No one uses a torch on their wires that produces 3000 degrees. Most of us that do have a torch might hit 2000 degrees F... 1900 degrees C less than the toxic temp. If torching was so toxic, we would have mass metal sickness across the globe, which we don't. We're talking about 250-300 degrees F when using our coils in a Penelope for example, and less than 1090 degrees C when torched. Neither of which will force the Kanthal to leech chromium. If you have some actual peer reviewed studies proving the toxicity of Kanthal at temps we can readily produce in the home, I would love to see it. Otherwise, we'll agree to disagree.

 

[imeothanasis]

I understand that oxides formed on Kanthal and NiChrome wire when heated red hot can be dangerous for your health. But do we - and how do we - know that these oxides come off the wire and into our lungs when vaping at 170 - 200 degrees C?

When you oxidise your mesh style atomizer or your nichrome-kanthal wires, the oxidation is deluted on your liquid and come to your lungs Fog.

There is absolutely no reason to burn wires. Clean them with soap and water and thats it. Also dont do dry burn, just change your wick

 

[steliosss]

Hey Bish... put your video in here... you lazy man

 

[dutch onsea]

I do torch my coils and I don`t know wether it is 100% safe and I think for the moment noone knows.
But take SS, made out of Fe, Cr and Ni (+C,...). Changing the chrystal-structure of austenitic(non-magnetic) steel will not happen with temperature and this will also not change the formation of oxides. So that`s not where the problem lies. The hardness of trhe iron is determined by how much C is in there. That`s no problem either.
So the oxidation. When iron reacts with O2 it`s the Cr that forms an invisible layer(Cr2O3), this should protect the underlaying metal from further oxidation(a "skin"of oxides) This layer bonds very well with the Iron and should not break loose and be inhaled. Just as particles of Silica should not break loose and be inhaled.
But there`s the point. As a lab-technician, everyday I work with GC-MS and some lab should do some testing. We should analyse wich particles are present in the inhaled vapour. But this has proven difficult to perform.
If you want to be 100% safe, dom`t vape. Everyone must determin for themselves what risk he/she will take.
Anyhow it will be far better then smoking cigarettes...

 

[soulseek]

If you want to be 100% safe, dom`t vape. Everyone must determin for themselves what risk he/she will take.
Anyhow it will be far better then smoking cigarettes...

Completely agree with the first one.

Partially on the second one. People who have some form of understanding of metals and their chemistry should be able to make this decision on their own. But people who are clueless, should be informed of the potential(still unknown) risks involved before getting into something.

On your final point, quite simply, we don't know. While the majority here will be inclined to agree, the issue is multifaceted. It depends onyour atomiser, torching, coil composition etc.

 

[imeothanasis]

dutch, if you are so sure about your post, then oxidise a mesh and put it on water for some hours, lets say 5-6. Then check the water. After this we can talk again
The issue is not to vape or not to vape. The issue is to vape healthy. For example, you know that you must not eat fats all day. Its your choice of course to do it but you also know what will happen. So the issue is not if we eat or not eat. The issue is to eat the right way.

As for the facts about metals, I didnt see anywhere in your post what is the black layer on an oxidised mesh. And as I said before, if your can becomes black because you forgot it on the kitchen, you will throw it away because noone will tell you that its safe for cooking.

I do torch my coils and I don`t know wether it is 100% safe and I think for the moment noone knows.
But take SS, made out of Fe, Cr and Ni (+C,...). Changing the chrystal-structure of austenitic(non-magnetic) steel will not happen with temperature and this will also not change the formation of oxides. So that`s not where the problem lies. The hardness of trhe iron is determined by how much C is in there. That`s no problem either.
So the oxidation. When iron reacts with O2 it`s the Cr that forms an invisible layer(Cr2O3), this should protect the underlaying metal from further oxidation(a "skin"of oxides) This layer bonds very well with the Iron and should not break loose and be inhaled. Just as particles of Silica should not break loose and be inhaled.
But there`s the point. As a lab-technician, everyday I work with GC-MS and some lab should do some testing. We should analyse wich particles are present in the inhaled vapour. But this has proven difficult to perform.
If you want to be 100% safe, dom`t vape. Everyone must determin for themselves what risk he/she will take.
Anyhow it will be far better then smoking cigarettes...

 

[imeothanasis]

Guys, I dont want to disagree with anyone. You can vape exactly what you like. I just want to inform you about the risk you take. To my humble opinion, its not risk, its certainty.

 

[finaritwo]

The information being presented is becoming very technical , to some point informative, and always appreciated…I feel after reading and trying to make sense of it all, it all comes back to exactly what Imeo said in the beginning. There's some( certain) risk involved with torching(dry burning) our coils and mesh when it can be avoided by using other methods. Until definitive testing is done, I'l follow his advice and refrain from this step and simply replace as needed.My only problem will be when I give my mesh a once over to help avoid hot spots when I wrap my coils..This step is what I've learned from watching so many videos and searching for the elusive perfect Vape..Bottom line, I'm going to try to remove as many unnecessary steps to keep my vaping experience as safe as I can. Somehow I feel more comfortable knowing Imeo is and will continue to inform us of the potential risks he finds.Thank you…

 

[dutch onsea]

More than a year ago I stopped smoking and just like with my eating(a couple years ago I became vegetarian Imeo) I`m quiet sure I made the right decision because I feel I`m healthier.And I think all of us we must try to minimalise the risks that are still involved with vaping. But like many others I`m searching for that perfect vape and for the moment that is micro`s and cotton. And as I said in my post I would love to see some research done, but like soul said there are so many variables,(atomiser, coil,wick,...) Let`s all try to work together and pass as much info as possible so in 20 years we`ll still be able to enjoy our hobby

 

[imeothanasis]

you took the right decisions until now Dutch. As for vaping, you took the right decisions too about micro and cotton. But there is absolutely no reason to take big risks,also because burning wires is not necessary at all. Just make a microcoil in the right way. Put threads very close each other and you will have exactly the same result, trust me

 

[Aal_]

With tension wrapping you can microcoils that don't need torching. Check the microcoils thread

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

 

[revolver]

To torch or not to torch..

Imeo claims we should stay away from torching, as this may lead to a dangerous situation. And his arguments are solid. OTOH, many of you have also made clear points which suggest otherwise, so testing is definitely needed here, so we can stop speculating.. In the meantime, we should share our opinions and not pretend to know better... This would be more constructive.. So let's stop pretending our "theory" is better and let's try to integrate all of the input here. The attitude of most is very narrow-minded, IMHO.

Nobody knows for sure. At least not the very extension of the -possible- damage (if any significant), and until this is demonstrated scientifically, or we have some sensitive test which shares more light on the subject, please let's try to BRAINSTORM and stop fighting over whose .... is larger here... Something we always tend to go for; IMEO and all of us included!

Personally, dry-burning comes in really handy, and prevents me from having to make a new coil altogether. I feel it may not be safe, but then again, is there anything substantially indicating flavours are safer? Cause if there isn't (and we all know there is no definite evidence here as well!) then we should stay away from vaping flavours as well as from torching, right?

 

[soulseek]

Cause if there isn't (and we all know there is no definite evidence here as well!) then we should stay away from vaping flavours as well as from torching, right?

Yes you should

 

[Ezzy1975]

I received my V3 earlier in the week and have been using it since. Very impressed with it. Love the straight forward set up of the V3,tried a few builds to find my sweet spot and i find it's working very well for me with a micro coil cotton wick. I've yet to try it with silica but i will do. All in all i find it a very good all rounder performance wise and filling the V3 is very easy to

 

[imeothanasis]

almost all metal oxides are very dangerous revolver, so we dont just guess.

To torch or not to torch..

Imeo claims we should stay away from torching, as this may lead to a dangerous situation. And his arguments are solid. OTOH, many of you have also made clear points which suggest otherwise, so testing is definitely needed here, so we can stop speculating.. In the meantime, we should share our opinions and not pretend to know better... This would be more constructive.. So let's stop pretending our "theory" is better and let's try to integrate all of the input here. The attitude of most is very narrow-minded, IMHO.

Nobody knows for sure. At least not the very extension of the -possible- damage (if any significant), and until this is demonstrated scientifically, or we have some sensitive test which shares more light on the subject, please let's try to BRAINSTORM and stop fighting over whose .... is larger here... Something we always tend to go for; IMEO and all of us included!

Personally, dry-burning comes in really handy, and prevents me from having to make a new coil altogether. I feel it may not be safe, but then again, is there anything substantially indicating flavours are safer? Cause if there isn't (and we all know there is no definite evidence here as well!) then we should stay away from vaping flavours as well as from torching, right?

 

[imeothanasis]

great to her that Ez. I use it with 2,5-3mm silica with 1mm inside channels and it works exellent too

I received my V3 earlier in the week and have been using it since. Very impressed with it. Love the straight forward set up of the V3,tried a few builds to find my sweet spot and i find it's working very well for me with a micro coil cotton wick. I've yet to try it with silica but i will do. All in all i find it a very good all rounder performance wise and filling the V3 is very easy to

 

[monkkx]

Imeo, you probably should initiate a dedicated thread to discuss about healthiest practices in the vape community, to avoid messing with this thread that's supposed to be penelope v3
I noticed you are definitly not mainstream when it comes to vape:
- you use silica when a lot use cotton only (me included)
- you use unflavored liquids when a lot are fights in F5 war for some fancy liquids (me included)
- you do not torch when a lot are enjoying this convenient way to build and clean coils ( me included until yesterday)

your points makes sense, but lakes scientific evidences to support you assesments and be (no offense meant here). we could all brainstorm and search for scientific facts as an enlightned community, rather than waiting for our governments to do it (might happen only in 10 years when it's already too late, just like with analog cigarette).
That's just my 2 cents

 

[Ezzy1975]

Thanks imeo,i had to much cotton in the channels to start with but cut the cotton back a bit and it's rocking

 

[imeothanasis]

sure, we can open a new thread mon

I too use cotton because I made my search and cotton is very good but it needs big attention because it mustnt get burned. Be sure than I will solve this issue very soon.

Every item that gets burned produce oxides that are dangerous almost always. We must not burn anything and we must not put very high temperature on any material because it crystallize structure changes.

I use unflavored liquids just for a very simple reason. We all know what propylen glycol is and what glycerine is. But we dont know what are the flavors people put on the liquids they produce. I cant trust all these liquid makers around for any reason. Also, the most dangerous on vaping are the flavors because noone knows what is produced if you burn or just heat at 200 celsious degrees the orange for example, or the apple juice. And I dont know if there is apple on those liquids or something else. There is no organisation that checks all these companies around. If you remember before some months we discover that some organic flavors had diacetyl inside. I didnt put it in my body but you may did.
I am not a guinea pig mon

Imeo, you probably should initiate a dedicated thread to discuss about healthiest practices in the vape community, to avoid messing with this thread that's supposed to be penelope v3
I noticed you are definitly not mainstream when it comes to vape:
- you use silica when a lot use cotton only (me included)
- you use unflavored liquids when a lot are fights in F5 war for some fancy liquids (me included)
- you do not torch when a lot are enjoying this convenient way to build and clean coils ( me included until yesterday)

your points makes sense, but lakes scientific evidences to support you assesments and be (no offense meant here). we could all brainstorm and search for scientific facts as an enlightned community, rather than waiting for our governments to do it (might happen only in 10 years when it's already too late, just like with analog cigarette).
That's just my 2 cents

 

[monkkx]

sure, we can open a new thread mon
I too use cotton because I made my search and cotton is very good but it needs big attention because it mustnt get burned. Be sure than I will solve this issue very soon.

damn !! penelope v4? ithaka v2? brand new atomizer?
your brain never rest ... my bank account hates you for that