People over at QSMB are actually decent folk

[stern]

I made the mistake of going there and presenting the 'case of the e-cig.' This stirred a lot of trouble, and for good reason.

I decided to replace "e-cig" with "NRT" while on the main forum, and restricting my use of the word e-cig to the e-cig subforum only.

The results? A bunch of nice and understanding replies. Let's not all bash em without giving them a chance. They are suspect of people from here going over there, and for reasons that are actually quite reasonable.

It is really a place for quitting, and if you are using an e-cig to quit (quit the e-cig as well, at some point) then they are welcoming. It really isn't, and shouldn't be a place for people who use the e-cig with no intention to get off....

I am not saying there is anything wrong with not wanting to get off, only that that community isn't for those types.


I would like to ask that anyone considering going there to cause trouble, even if you are only defending something, think about it and not do it. Only a request. We are all in the same boat. We all don't want to die from smoking!!! There are more similarities than differences. Sure, I don't agree with some of the users philosophies......but there are many good people there that should not have to suffer for a few bad apples over there.

If it is not allowed to mention that site by name, even in good regard, let me know and I will change it.

 

[wv2win]

So they are "welcoming" as long as we all agree that we must stop vaping at some point. That's an attitude that does not seem "welcoming" to me. If they would realize that quitting smoking by any means is a positive and should be accepted and embraced without caveats, then they truely would be "welcoming".

 

[stern]

So they are "welcoming" as long as we all agree that we must stop vaping at some point. That's an attitude that does not seem "welcoming" to me. If they would realize that quitting smoking by any means is a positive and should be accepted and embraced without caveats, then they truely would be "welcoming".

I agree....but who is perfect? And really, this attitude is mainly a few members....who happen to be quite loud. I had several say that it is positive....but that that wasn't the community for it. Sort of like how a skier wouldn't want to be at a snowboard forum, and vice versa. I ain't saying its right, or that I agree. I am saying that if I wish to live and let live, I must live and let live. This includes those I strongly disagree with.

If they came here, it would be justified, in my opinion, to respond. But they are not. I suppose I meant, let's just leave em be?

We got enough folks out there who want to crush this awesome thing we have. We don't need to fight the whole world!

I suppose it is like being gay in the army....don't ask, don't tell. I drop enough hints so that everyone knows I am talking about the e-cig...they just don't want to hear the name, well some. Give the world time to catch up. Let's be a model community (impossible! but we can try )

 

[ohai]

With all due respect, and I appreciate what you're saying, and I think you mean well...

I'm just not interested in other people deciding whether or not I meet their specific criteria for what constitutes "quitting" and deciding whether or not to be nice to me based on what I happen to call my "NRT".

I spent far too much of my life being judged for smoking in the first place. Let them judge each other, I'm fine where I am, not going anywhere.

 

[Butters78]

 

[spaceballsrules]

With all due respect, and I appreciate what you're saying, and I think you mean well...

I'm just not interested in other people deciding whether or not I meet their specific criteria for what constitutes "quitting" and deciding whether or not to be nice to me based on what I happen to call my "NRT".

I spent far too much of my life being judged for smoking in the first place. Let them judge each other, I'm fine where I am, not going anywhere.

Very well said.

I respect their zero tolerance attitude towards nic and tobacco, but it ain't for me personally. More power to them for doing what's best for them. I wish them nothing but the best.

You beat me to it. As soon as I saw the title, I thought "DON"T OPEN THAT CAN!.........Bah. Too late."

 

[ohai]

I just want to hang out here, where we hate each other for really good reasons, like who makes the best RY4.

 

[Spazmelda]

My issue with the more vocal opponents to e-cigs over there (and I do think it's a vocal minority, but I think that vocal minority is largely dominating the entire tone of the board) is that they are turning people off to a viable quit smoking alternative. I'm sure there are people who have posted on there who will keep going around on the quit or die merry-go-round until they give up and resign themselves to being life time smokers (this is where I was 1 year ago).

I appreciate their concerns that vaping is behaviorally very similar to smoking, and may prevent some people from breaking that hand to mouth habit. This is a valid concern if you are a person who wants to end all nicotine and smoking-like dependence. This could be stated in a non-confrontational manner, rather than ad homenim attacks I've seen on there. Other than this, vaping could be used very similarly to other NRT products, with even more control over nicotine levels, allowing someone to break the nicotine dependence separately from the hand to mouth behavioral habits. It's possible that breaking one habit first, then working on the other could be very effective to many smokers. And at least they don't have to be slowly killing themselves with tar and carcinogens in the meantime.

There are a couple of telling telling threads over there, where the vocal opponents are very honest about why they hate e-cigs. For at least a few of them it seems to be because they are tempted by them. They are tempted to try them, but scared of being sucked back into smoking. I can understand that fear (although it hasn't been the case for me at all), whether that fear should trump all logic regarding harm reduction is dubious to me though.

 

[wv2win]

................I drop enough hints so that everyone knows I am talking about the e-cig...they just don't want to hear the name, well some.............

I do everything possible to NOT use the term "e-cig". That in itself is counter-productive. Personal vaporizer or personal inhaler is more accurate and helps break the negative connection to smoking. There is an NRT product called an inhaler. Vaping is closer to that than to smoking. If the zealots would just get off their snob coated high horse and use whatever intelligence they have to understand the end result is much more important than the path taken.

 

[wv2win]

.......There are a couple of telling telling threads over there, where the vocal opponents are very honest about why they hate e-cigs. For at least a few of them it seems to be because they are tempted by them. They are tempted to try them, but scared of being sucked back into smoking. I can understand that fear (although it hasn't been the case for me at all), whether that fear should trump all logic regarding harm reduction is dubious to me though.

So basically they are saying that "their fear" trumps the success that millions have had quitting smoking by turning to vaping and those millions should be doomed to becoming cancer patients just so the few won't be tempted. The needs of the few outweight the needs of the many.

 

[Spazmelda]

So basically they are saying that "their fear" trumps the success that millions have had quitting smoking by turning to vaping and those millions should be doomed to becoming cancer patients just so the few won't be tempted. The needs of the few outweight the needs of the many.

Yes, that is exactly the point I was trying to make. You said it better. I guess they are also extrapolating that many more will be tempted because they were. Or many will decide not to quit because they switched to vaping, thinking it is safer (as it almost certainly is according to research). This is valid, but I'd say the jury is still out on whether that's a bad thing or not. If I can switch to vaping and eliminate most of the risks, that is not as good as if I were to completely quit using nicotine or inhaling anything other than air. But, barring any unforseen risks from vaping, it comes down to a matter of numbers. How many people would have quit completely versus how many will keep trying and failing until they quit trying and just keep smoking?

I can say that I thoroughly believe in harm reduction. I don't consider myself a weak person. I finished a Ph.D. while dealing with a new baby. I lost 68 lbs and have managed to keep it off for 4 years now. I can do stuff. I went from being an obese couch potato to a fairly fit and competitive racquetball player. I'm not a whiner with no will power. I could not quit smoking. Even with two small kids and a husband who hated my smoking, I just couldn't do it. They say if you want it bad enough you can do it. That's the line I always heard, so I figured I just didn't want it bad enough. I don't know how much more I could have wanted it, but apparently it just wasn't enough. At least I can reduce the harm. Maybe I'm a quitter and a failure, but I don't have to inhale carcinogens and tar because of it.

 

[Iffy]

Went over dere a while ago. Ain't goin' back!!!

 

[supergerbil]

Hey, uhhh, guys?

Seeing as how the last thread regarding QSMB almost started a holy war maaaaaaybe we should just listen to Butters?

 

[ohai]

Hey, uhhh, guys?

Seeing as how the last thread regarding QSMB almost started a holy war maaaaaaybe we should just listen to Butters?

As an avowed devotee of South Park, I can tell you this- those kids wouldn't get into half the trouble they do if they would just listen to Butters.

 

[supergerbil]

As an avowed devotee of South Park, I can tell you this- those kids wouldn't get into half the trouble they do if they would just listen to Butters.

True true.... then again how many people died due to his tap dancing? Tens? Hundreds? Im not sure if one is enough moral currency to justify the other.

 

[Butters78]

As an avowed devotee of South Park, I can tell you this- those kids wouldn't get into half the trouble they do if they would just listen to Butters.

Haha, that's right.

 

[stern]

Very well said.

I respect their zero tolerance attitude towards nic and tobacco, but it ain't for me personally. More power to them for doing what's best for them. I wish them nothing but the best.



You beat me to it. As soon as I saw the title, I thought "DON"T OPEN THAT CAN!.........Bah. Too late."

You said it better than I. I suppose that's what I meant to say...but yes, any one way to delete a thread??? lol I did not want to open this can......

 

[JENerationX]

With all due respect, and I appreciate what you're saying, and I think you mean well...

I'm just not interested in other people deciding whether or not I meet their specific criteria for what constitutes "quitting" and deciding whether or not to be nice to me based on what I happen to call my "NRT".

I spent far too much of my life being judged for smoking in the first place. Let them judge each other, I'm fine where I am, not going anywhere.

^This

I have enough people in my real life circle that don't understand what I'm doing. The difference is, they're willing to learn because they care about me.

I come to this forum for support because everyone here knows what it feels like to transition from cigs to pvs. Nobody berates me for the 2-3 packs I've smoked in 3 months because it's better than the close to 2 cartons I used to smoke in a month. I don't understand how this is any different than someone using the patch or the gum in combination with the "gradual cut down" method... with the exception that I didn't cut down gradually. I cut down to less than a cigarette a day almost immediately.

I'm now at the point where I'm not missing anything. I can stand with smokers and be perfectly happy vaping, because I know that I can't get past 2-3 puffs without gagging on the taste. (AND I'm one of those people that thought it tasted good in the morning.) NOBODY is going to tell me that vaping is not a wonderful thing.

I'll park my big .... right here in this chair, with my Volt X2 and a clearo full of cotton candy.

 

[stern]

Very good responses. Really. I suppose I was feeling bad that I caused some trouble over there and wanted to make up for it....... But I agree with pretty much EVERYTHING that was said here....

I come from an AA background (for opiates tho), so part of me understands their approach, even if I disagree with how that approach is presented. I will change the title, I really really don't want to open a can of worms!!!

I always enjoy a good debate. But I cannot stand hostility and close-minded arguments. Well that's not entirely true...it can be entertaining. But, this e-cig is saving my life, and as the saying goes, don't crap where you live.

 

[stern]

With all due respect, and I appreciate what you're saying, and I think you mean well...

I'm just not interested in other people deciding whether or not I meet their specific criteria for what constitutes "quitting" and deciding whether or not to be nice to me based on what I happen to call my "NRT".

I spent far too much of my life being judged for smoking in the first place. Let them judge each other, I'm fine where I am, not going anywhere.

Thank you for being so kind in your retort. I actually agree with you...this is a weird subject, because I agree with the point of view here, and I also understand the point of view there. There is one difference though....the opinions here seem to be presented with dignity and understanding. I like that. Very much

Of course there is dignity there too, but it seems to be universal here. Much thanks for giving me a different perspective that I had set on the back burner.

I changed the title, but it doesn't seem to have changed in the subforum. Any way to do this? Or will it take time to catch up?