PG and VG Special at Essential Depot

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B2L

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What does Pharma mean? USP stands for United States Pharmacopeial. So what is USP Grade? Play on the general ignorance of people to see things that aren't there? Is that why he only stated US Pharma.

USP grade means that the product in question meets or exceeds the standards set by the USP, I don't understand your confusion or your seeming commitment to try and discredit an upstanding member here.
 
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Spidey2011

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Umm, HUH? Well, food grade as opposed to pharmaceutical grade is posted here:

Purity of PG, VG and PEG - The Short Version | E-Cigarette Forum

I don't take "anyone" at their word and do my own research.

As for the vendor? Well them selling food grade vg and pg as being suitable for ecigarette usage, then yes, I would classify them as unethical at the least. I will not be sampling any of their "food" grade product.
So you also only use pharmaceutical grade flavorings?
 

noway

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So you also only use pharmaceutical grade flavorings?

Actually the reason I ended up in this forum is to get rid of flavorings altogether. I was looking at several sites that had PG/VG/Nic 3mg already mixed. I search for their claims and I get nothing.

Pharmaceutical grade doesn't not necessary mean it is safe to be inhaled in itself. It could be for, say, topical use.

As for China? You are using e-cigarettes. I normally avoid made in china but I have to give them this one for obvious reasons.

The rest of you just follow blindly while the few squash small business and the middle class, as is apparent in this thread.
 

dannyv45

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And let's see what he says.



What does Pharma mean? USP stands for United States Pharmacopeial. So what is USP Grade? Play on the general ignorance of people to see things that aren't there? Is that why he only stated US Pharma?

None of you have posted any facts and been nothing but fanboys to someone who could pass a few tests in college.

Where is Kurt?

I'm sure he loves the fanboys that follow him blindly. Any competent doctor will tell you it's always a good idea to get a second opinion, and ask questions.

Since none of you are able to link facts, then what is your interest in the propaganda being spread?

Actually the reason I ended up in this forum is to get rid of flavorings altogether. I was looking at several sites that had PG/VG/Nic 3mg already mixed. I search for their claims and I get nothing.

Pharmaceutical grade doesn't not necessary mean it is safe to be inhaled in itself. It could be for, say, topical use.

As for China? You are using e-cigarettes. I normally avoid made in china but I have to give them this one for obvious reasons.

The rest of you just follow blindly while the few squash small business and the middle class, as is apparent in this thread.

I understand your point in wanting to obtain the safest product you can possibly find and this can be a learning experience for all of us. I just think your being a bit confrontational and you would be a bit more successful with a less confrontational approach.

Let me ask you a question. Did you read the MSDS data sheets or COA's on essential depots site on any of these products. And if you did what are your opinions on those?

http://www.essentialdepot.com/msds/pg-coa.pdf

http://www.essentialdepot.com/msds/msds glycerin kosher food grade.pdf

http://www.essentialdepot.com/msds/coa glycerin kosher food.pdf

http://www.essentialdepot.com/msds/MSDS Propylene Glycol USP Kosher.pdf

And for everything else they sell

Essential Depot: Material Safety Data Sheet and Certificate of Analysis

Any company that takes the effort to provide MSDS and COA data is OK in my book.
 
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noway

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Capt.shay

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I understand your point in wanting to obtain the safest product you can possibly find and this can be a learning experience for all of us. I just think your being a bit confrontational and you would be a bit more successful with a less confrontational approach.

Let me ask you a question. Did you read the MSDS data sheets or COA's on essential depots site on any of these products. And if you did what are your opinions on those?

http://www.essentialdepot.com/msds/pg-coa.pdf

http://www.essentialdepot.com/msds/msds glycerin kosher food grade.pdf

http://www.essentialdepot.com/msds/coa glycerin kosher food.pdf

http://www.essentialdepot.com/msds/MSDS Propylene Glycol USP Kosher.pdf

And for everything else they sell

Essential Depot: Material Safety Data Sheet and Certificate of Analysis

Any company that takes the effort to provide MSDS and COA data is OK in my book.

 
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Kurt

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I have no idea the point of this vitriol, noway. USP grade means it meets the standards of the monograph of the substance published by the US Pharmacopeia, and this is what is generally meant by "pharmaceutical grade", which simply means pure enough to be used in a medicine. So yes, USP indeed does describe a grade, and it also describes the organization that creates the standards for USP grade. The links by Alien Traveler give a good description of this. Monographs not only give the purity standards for the substance, they often also dictate the testing methods needed.

Of course this does not mean vaping massive quantities of USP PG is perfectly safe, but it is the highest grade generally available. There is no substance as yet approved officially for vaping. The actual safety depends, as far as we know, on the tolerance a person has for PG (mine is extremely low, I only use VG), as well as the amount of thermal decomposition that can happen with high wattage. This issue of coil temperature and thermal decomp, in my opinion, especially with PG, is more important than debating if USP PG is pure enough. Spectroscopically pure PG will break down in a dry puff into the same toxins as USP PG. Any issues with inhaling non-decomposing USP grade PG are, in my opinion, trivial compared to those from decomposing 100.00% pure PG.

USP nicotine has its own standards, and there is a nicotine monograph from USP, as well as USP monographs for the different formulations of nicotine in NRT products. Which are pharmaceutical products, thus we can say USP nic is pharmaceutical grade nic. The ultra-pure nicotines on the market for vaping today probably exceed USP standards. In fact, if the nicotine just meets USP standards it would probably not be very good to most people here for vaping. It would have too strong a taste for many here. But it would be fine for NRTs.

As far as I know there are no USP grade flavorings, including tobacco flavors and extracts, let alone approved for inhalation by a government agency. These are simply Generally Recognized as Safe (GRAS) for ingestion, or else they are not GRAS (tobacco extracts, tobacco absolute).

I have been a Subject Matter Expert (chemistry consultant, PhD in chemistry) for the American E-Liquid Manufacturing Standards Association (AEMSA, AEMSA | American E-Liquid Manufacturing Standards Association for almost three years now, and I helped write the e-liquid standards for the member manufacturers to follow, including USP grade diluents and nicotine (we often exceed USP purity for nicotine), flavors (GRAS only), laboratories, storage, handling, etc, in collaboration with other PhD chemists who do tobacco product and pharmaceutical analytical testing. I, along with other AEMSA representatives, have presented our standards to the FDA, which they invited us to do, and have been grilled by FDA scientists over every detail. They voiced no objections to any of our standards or testing methods, including the requirements for USP grade components, and in fact were quite impressed with the depth of our science. The FDA continues to invite us to report our progress, and AEMSA remains as an organization the FDA respects and learns from in terms of all things ecig.

And while it is true we do not now the very-long term safety of inhaling USP grade diluents, the track record since 2006 is quite remarkable, with virtually no serious problems reported. That said, you can expect some companies to cover their tails by either stating that their product is not for vaping, or some other statement that reduces their liability in case of injury. I have been using ES USP grade VG for years now with no problems, and so have thousands of others.

For someone who has been on ECF for all of six weeks to call me a liar is, to be honest, astounding. It is one thing to disagree or want clarification, that is the nature of scientific progress, but to call me a liar, and one with blind ignorance, is not only not true at all, it is very insulting, and just really odd. And the tone you use is also insulting, and I suspect deliberately so. So people that think the advise of a PhD in chemistry are just fanboys?? Why on earth would you choose to be insulting and vitriolic over something like USP VG?? If you have questions just ask! I have zero time for stupid fights over such trivial issues. If you don't think USP grade is good enough for you, then find spectroscopically pure diluents, and pay the premium for them. It is overkill, in my opinion, but I am not here to tell you what to vape. You have turned a simple post regarding a sale on PG and VG into very strange fight, when this issue has been settled scientifically for YEARS now.

Where was I, noway?? I was finishing my spring semester grades for my chemistry courses (I am a chemistry faculty member for a major university), getting my research group ready for summer research (I do, in addition to ecig research, fundamental chemical physics research within my faculty position), finishing up an NIH grant proposal, and working on a publication I want to get out soon. My time for ECF is very limited, but I try to help out as I can. The underlying points of the discussion could have gone so much further in understanding had you been more civil. I'm sure this post will lead to more attacks, but I needed to speak my piece.
 

Alien Traveler

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So people that think the advise of a PhD in chemistry are just fanboys?? ....... I am a chemistry faculty member for a major university
Kurt, you are overreacting. I see about no cause people have to respect an opinion only because it is opinion of PhD. Nowadays we can see a lot of dumb PhDs around. Take a look at researchgate.net, you’ll find a lot of PhDs suitable to play the lead characters in “dumb and dumber”. I have found out that I kill more and more papers as a reviewer and now I am trying to avoid to be a reviewer. And what about e-cig research, made by PhDs by the way? Most papers are really dumb. Of course, e-cig research is something special – new field which is open for all types of easy papers “let’s measure something and publish results”. So, we should accept that PhD degree bears much less weight now that some (long?) time ago.


P.S. All said, I have to mention that I greatly respect your opinion. But not because of any PhD degree, but because I have read your ECF posts. And I fully agree with all you said in this thread.


P.P.S. I do have a PhD, work at the university, get money from NIH (and other) grants. However I am in no way a PhD in vaping, I am on ECF for fun. Many times my posts were proved wrong by more experienced vapers (and I had to apologize). Since my times as an alien cowboy and construction worker I know that I can learn a lot from people who know cows or bricks better than I do. Since times of my serving in alien air forces I know I have no authority but myself. I think most people think the same way, but some present it in just dumb childish stile, as noway did.
 

Monotremata

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I got a gallon of each on their last sale, and haven't even started on em yet, so good to go for awhile yet.

Dang I could go for a couple years with that haha. I had actually just bought a liter of each around christmas when I had some Amazon gift cards to blow but was still going through my NN PG/VG and just very recently had to open em up. Unfortunately I just moved a couple weeks ago and the friend that helped me move wasnt paying attention to the pile of stuff I had that I absolutely needed to take with me and both of them are now locked up in a storage unit 2 hours away baking in almost 100 degree weather (along with 4 of my 18650s too).. Luckily I had filled up a couple of 250ml bottles that I keep in the box with all my mixing stuff so I wasnt completely left dry when I got here.. Im just hoping they wont be too badly damaged when I go get my stuff out of there but at least Im prepared for the worst now haha.
 

salemgold

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Wow. Just, wow. Kurt has taught me everything that I know about eliquid components and their safety. I follow his posts closely and know for certain that he would never give me false information. Matter of fact, he has been the most helpful member of this community to me over the last 5 years. If you don't trust his expertise in these matters, you would likely trust nobody. :confused:
 

dannyv45

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Wow. Just, wow. Kurt has taught me everything that I know about eliquid components and their safety. I follow his posts closely and know for certain that he would never give me false information. Matter of fact, he has been the most helpful member of this community to me over the last 5 years. If you don't trust his expertise in these matters, you would likely trust nobody. :confused:

Exactly.......
 

noway

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noway

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  • Deleted by Robino1
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