Philip Morris Plans $680 Million Factory in Lower-Risk Push

[Anjaffm]

Well Anja..they have certainly found their "niche" in the e-cigarette market. Idk how they work but yes, it would seem the ol bacca leaf cig will be around that much longer indeed.

Well, I just cannot see paying 5 Euro for a pack of cigarettes and sticking them into some device that I have to buy additionally. (1 Euro = 1,36 US$) And do not tell me that gov't won't tax those cigarette-like sticks just like cigarettes. After all, you could just smoke them, eh?

It may be healthier for the user. However, it is even more expensive for the user than regular cigarettes (providing the gov't taxes them the same, and yes, they will). I think I'll take a raincheck.

 

[Sirius]

Well, I just cannot see paying 5 Euro for a pack of cigarettes and sticking them into some device that I have to buy additionally. (1 Euro = 1,36 US$) And do not tell me that gov't won't tax those cigarette-like sticks just like cigarettes. After all, you could just smoke them, eh?

It may be healthier for the user. However, it is even more expensive for the user than regular cigarettes (providing the gov't taxes them the same, and yes, they will). I think I'll take a raincheck.

I'm not really sure but this is my OPINION.
Phillip Morris and R.J. Reynolds already know what's in the works FDA regulation wise, so they are moving most of the manufacturing overseas in an attempt to avoid the most costly ones. Reynolds America Inc. (R.J. Reynolds) acquired Lorrilard (makers of Blu ecigs)
So something is afoot as they say. Something stinks I say.
Lorillard, Inc. - Reynolds American To Acquire Lorillard In Transaction Valued At $27.4 Billion

 

[stevegmu]

I would be surprised if they don't reincorporate offshore. I work for a huge corporation, which bought a large competitor in Ireland. The companies merged and the new company is now legally headquartered in Ireland, saving 100s $millions in corporate tax/year. The company they bought in Ireland was actually an American company physically headquartered in Texas, but 'moved' to Ireland years ago to avoid corporate tax. Our physical world headquarters is down the road in Cleveland...

 

[bigdancehawk]

There are some major legal hurdles in the US for them if they want to label anything "Marlboro" that isn't a good ol' Marlboro analog cig.

 

[Jman8]

I've seen that V2 (or Big Vapor) is creating similar type device for vaping loose leaf and essential oil products.

 

[Sirius]

I would be surprised if they don't reincorporate offshore. I work for a huge corporation, which bought a large competitor in Ireland. The companies merged and the new company is now legally headquartered in Ireland, saving 100s $millions in corporate tax/year. The company they bought in Ireland was actually an American company physically headquartered in Texas, but 'moved' to Ireland years ago to avoid corporate tax. Our physical world headquarters is down the road in Cleveland...

Philip Morris International is headquartered in New York City, but is operated out of Sweden.
http://www.pmi.com/marketpages/pages/market_en_se.aspx

 

[zoiDman]

Just delete it. Nobody will see the connection anyway.

Not sure why you would want it to be Deleted?

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...is-international-bets-big-future-smoking.html

 

[Sirius]

Not sure why you would want it to be Deleted?

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...is-international-bets-big-future-smoking.html

Because these products will be available while the newer technology (eliquids and RBAs) will not be..or be in a limited quantity, and both BT and BP is behind it.
I doubt many will see the connection.

 

[zoiDman]

Because these products will be available while the newer technology (eliquids and RBAs) will not be..or be in a limited quantity, and both BT and BP is behind it.
I doubt many will see the connection.

I guess I haven't had Enough Coffee Yet. That and it has been in the 90's for the Past 2 Weeks.

But how again is this an Evil Plot?

 

[Sirius]

I guess I haven't had Enough Coffee Yet. That and it has been in the 90's for the Past 2 Weeks.

But how again is this an Evil Plot?

Didn't say it was an evil plot..or a conspiracy. Just the political machine serving big companies and shutting the little guys out with regulations. That's nothing new here in the US.

 

[zoiDman]

Didn't say it was an evil plot..or a conspiracy. Just the political machine serving big companies and shutting the little guys out with regulations. That's nothing new here in the US.

Not sure how PM's iQOS is going to Shut Down the Little Guys?

If PM's iQOS is indeed "Safer" to use than Traditional Cigarettes, Isn't that a Good Thing?

 

[Sirius]

And so it begins..I won't say I told ya so..but...............

Michigan vapers need to act NOW to defeat SB 1018, a proposed "sin tax" on e-cigarettes and treatment of e-cigarettes as "tobacco products."

Earlier this year, RJ Reynolds promoted a small but punitive sin tax on e-cigarettes in North Carolina that was passed quickly and over the objection of consumers. It appears we have a similar situation brewing in Michigan where our information is that RJ Reynolds and Altria are brokering deals between themselves and then quietly lobbying legislators to get the tax passed.

The large tobacco companies accept the concept of sin taxes and don’t have much of a problem agreeing to them or even actively lobbying for them. Of course, they don’t actually pay the taxes . . . we, the consumers do. Moreover, the tax structure they push favors the cigalikes they produce and imposes a heavier burden on sales of refill liquid, a product the tobacco companies don’t sell.​


While Michigan consumers might regard fifteen cents per 1.5 milliliter of liquid as relatively modest for a "sin tax," the fact is that e-cigarettes shouldn't be subject to ANY "sin tax." They are already appropriately subject to a general sales tax. States shouldn't be looking to tax low-risk e-cigarettes to make up tobacco tax revenue lost by people making the switch to a safer alternative.

Moreover, rather than simply banning sales of e-cigarettes to minors, SB 1018 defines e-cigarettes (vapor products) and alternative nicotine products as "smokeless tobacco," and "smokeless tobacco" is defined as a "tobacco product." While this has the effect of banning sales to minors, it also brings into play a wide variety of other provisions regarding tobacco products. For state law purposes, e-cigarettes should not be considered tobacco products.
CASAA: Call to Action: Michigan Legislators are Considering an Excise Tax on E-Cigarettes

 

[zoiDman]

...

Moreover, rather than simply banning sales of e-cigarettes to minors, SB 1018 defines e-cigarettes (vapor products) and alternative nicotine products as "smokeless tobacco," and "smokeless tobacco" is defined as a "tobacco product." While this has the effect of banning sales to minors, it also brings into play a wide variety of other provisions regarding tobacco products. For state law purposes, e-cigarettes should not be considered tobacco products.
CASAA: Call to Action: Michigan Legislators are Considering an Excise Tax on E-Cigarettes

This is Something I have mentioned Many Times about what will happen when the FDA Finalizes their Deeming of e-Liquids.

But I don't think many gave it much thought then.

 

[Sirius]

This is Something I have mentioned Many Times about what will happen when the FDA Finalizes their Deeming of e-Liquids.

But I don't think many gave it much thought then.

We will effectively be screwed. Buy up some 100mg Nicotine juice my brother. That's what I'm doing.

 

[zoiDman]

We will effectively be screwed. Buy up some 100mg Nicotine juice my brother. That's what I'm doing.

That is Something that I put a Check Mark next to awhile back.

 

[Sirius]

It's a Senate election year people..Vote the Bar Stewart's OUT of office. Or hang 'um from lamp posts. I like the latter idea.

 

[zoiDman]

BTW - Does anyone know where the Proposed Tax Revenues on e-Liquids would go?

Are they Tied to Specific Programs? Or do they just get Chucked onto the General Fund Pile?

 

[Sirius]

BTW - Does anyone know where the Proposed Tax Revenues on e-Liquids would go?

Are they Tied to Specific Programs? Or do they just get Chucked onto the General Fund Pile?

I do not know..very good question that needs looking into.

 

[Sirius]

Here's an example I read awhile back..worthy of posting:

Rush to Tax




Most lawmakers don’t see a difference between e-cigs and smoking. Tobacco products are taxed right now at a level that aims to get people to stop, at the same time that the tax generates enormous revenue for the state. House Finance Chair Reuven Carlyle, D-Seattle, argues that because e-cigs are a nicotine delivery system just like cigarettes, the state ought to take the same dim view. His tax measure, House Bill 2795, awaits action on the House floor. Meanwhile in the Senate, there is talk of letting the bill pass in return for a tax-break bill desired by the upper chamber — the extension of a research and development tax credit that is scheduled to expire. It is one of those issues that will be decided when the final budget deal is unveiled, sometime in the next two days.

Perhaps the biggest indication of the rush in which the proposal has been developed is the enormous goof that shows up in the latest version of the House measure. In a bid for votes, advocates have been suggesting that e-cigarettes ought to be taxed at half the rate of cigarettes — the standard split-the-baby-down-the-middle approach so common at the statehouse. But a striking amendment to HB 2795 that surfaced Friday, sponsored by state Rep. Steve Tharinger, D-Sequim, doesn’t do that. Instead it sends the tax through the roof.
As Vapers Organize, Legislature Scrambles to Impose New E-Cig Tax

 

[Sirius]

So my guess is..those in legislature that BT do not have in their back pockets are looking at the huge tax revenues e-cigs and their components will bring into their states. it's almost certain all 50 states will adopt high taxes on ecigs as time goes by. Not to mention the FDA proposals that will drive the costs up much further.