Philip Morris VS. Freedom2Vape.com

[ShoeQueen]

Well, I think this is the height of ridiculous.
Perhaps the ECF community could come up with some alternatives...

Like: Stuff Similar to Stuff in a Red Box But This Doesn't Kill You
Or: American Desperado Without Racking Lung Cough (Horse not included)
Or maybe: Horse-Riding-Big-tobacco-Can-Suck-It Blend

I think any of these fine alternatives would work.

In all seriousness, I think that branding is important, but no matter how awesome you think you brand is, it doesn't give license to own an entire culture!

I detest every single cent I gave these money-grubbers, and I sincerely hope that e-cig sales hits them where it hurts... right in the wallet.

I'm recommitting to converting others, and will not stop "until the cows come home!"

Wait... there's another name alternative...
Until the Cows Come Home
I declaring it and all cow imagery as mine, and so help me if I see a cow in one of Phillips' ads I am suing.

You've been warned Big tobacco, you've been warned!

However, ejuice purveyors and sellers are welcome to my new trademark name all all the cow images they can get there hands on, free of charge.

 

[Stownz]

They should have changed the name to "Tobacco flavor the A-holes Make." Everyone would know what it was.

hahaha, fantastic !

 

[player30]

It won't get thrown out quick--- what PM has that the small vendor doesn't have is 1.money, 2. the US as a big ally, 3. the states as a big ally, 4. the courts in its back pocket and 5. time to wait out the long process. Just the beginning from tobacco getting involves in this.

 

[GMoney]

Well, I am going to have to disagree with all of you. If I were Philip Morris, I would be doing exactly what they are doing.

E-cig companies are obviously trying to gain market share by associating their products with the trademark Marlboro so that they can gain market share. It is obvious to everyone that you can not sell Marlboro juice.

Philip Morris is also trying to assert their rights to "cowboy and cowboy imagery associated with tobacco products. First, you will not get sued for having a cowboy avatar on an e-cig forum - if you start selling e-cigs, expect a letter. You have to ask yourself, if someone said to you "Cowboy type cigarettes" Most people will think of Marlboro. So, the e-cig companies are trying to get their customers to associate their product with Marlboro by using the "cowboy" that Philip Morris spent a lot of time and money to get the public to associate with their product.

That said, I have not looked into exactly what rights PM has nor have I read the cases that would act as precedence for a lawsuit, but as a quick test - if a customer looks at your product advertisement and immediately thinks of another well established product it's time to call your lawyer.

edit: PM probably also doesn't want any confusion in case they start selling Marlboro Cowboy e-cigs.

 

[ShannonA]

Wow, yes BT should be scared. This little invention is costing them money!
Think of all of us who have either quit buying tobacco products, or at least greatly reduced our spending, due to the e-cig.
I am certain they worry about it a lot!

Nah they shouldn't be scared they should just get into the business themselves. A Ready made new revenue stream and it's barely been tapped. If I was P M or R J Reynolds I'd already be in it by now.

 

[Net-Cop]

Well, I think this is the height of ridiculous.
Perhaps the ECF community could come up with some alternatives...

Like: Stuff Similar to Stuff in a Red Box But This Doesn't Kill You
Or: American Desperado Without Racking Lung Cough (Horse not included)
Or maybe: Horse-Riding-Big-Tobacco-Can-Suck-It Blend

I think any of these fine alternatives would work.

In all seriousness, I think that branding is important, but no matter how awesome you think you brand is, it doesn't give license to own an entire culture!

I detest every single cent I gave these money-grubbers, and I sincerely hope that e-cig sales hits them where it hurts... right in the wallet.

I'm recommitting to converting others, and will not stop "until the cows come home!"

Wait... there's another name alternative...
Until the Cows Come Home
I declaring it and all cow imagery as mine, and so help me if I see a cow in one of Phillips' ads I am suing.

You've been warned Big Tobacco, you've been warned!

However, eJuice purveyors and sellers are welcome to my new trademark name all all the cow images they can get there hands on, free of charge.

Ok, now you've done it! Gateway has a lock on the cow thing, or maybe putting the cowboy on a cow!?! Let 'em fight each other over who gets a shot at you.

I think the penalty for bringing a frivolous lawsuit should be letting the acquitted party wear out a taser battery on the idiot who started it, might even make a buck on pay per view!

Jim

 

[ShannonA]

I was talking to my mom about this (just to paint the picture she doesn't vape and hasn't smoked for 30 some years). She says it isn't hurting P M all that much because they have so many other holdings besides the tobacco. She says P M and R J Reynolds both (and the other tobacco Cos too I'm sure) have been acquiring businesses (outside of the tobacco industry) since the mid 60s in preparation for this. I guess that's when the smoking is unhealthy thing really got rolling.

 

[ajkron]

just goes to show you what unlimited funds can get you. scare the horse crap out of mom and pop operations that know big tobacco will bleed you dry going thru the legal process if you decide to pursue your rights. as a friend of mine told me earlier today: "last time i checked cowboy is in the oxford dictionary". it not what you know (is right) its who you know and philip morris knows and owns everyone.

 

[ShannonA]

just goes to show you what unlimited funds can get you. scare the horse crap out of mom and pop operations that know big tobacco will bleed you dry going thru the legal process if you decide to pursue your rights. as a friend of mine told me earlier today: "last time i checked cowboy is in the oxford dictionary". it not what you know (is right) its who you know and philip morris knows and owns everyone.

Well yeah R J Reynolds spent $325,000,000 fighting the Canadian government before they reached a settlement. Companies like that could run any e-cig business into the ground if they try to fight.

 

[six]

Until every vaper and every vendor gives up the use of the words "e-cig" and "electronic cigarette", these sorts of things will continue. It's unfortunate that "Personal Vaporizer" isn't easier to say than "e-cig". As long as the PV can easily be described as a competing product, big tobacco has an easy mark.

 

[Cat_in_the_Playground]

They can't claim the Camel that belongs to the OTHER tobacco giant
sorry to reply twice It's almost bedtime my mind isn't keeping up just right.

I know.. but I figured they would want to get on the legal action too - why let PM have all the fun???

 

[ShannonA]

I know.. but I figured they would want to get on the legal action too - why let PM have all the fun???

wouldn't surprise me they're definitely not afraid to blow money on court costs... maybe they're waiting to see how well it works for P M

 

[ShannonA]

Until every vaper and every vendor gives up the use of the words "e-cig" and "electronic cigarette", these sorts of things will continue. It's unfortunate that "Personal Vaporizer" isn't easier to say than "e-cig". As long as the PV can easily be described as a competing product, big tobacco has an easy mark.

We can call them bagpipes if we want but they're marketed as e-cigs. If I call it a pv (I actually like that term but was already in the habit of using e-cig takes time to break it) its kind of irrelevant unless the vendors follow suit... even if they do it might be a little late now. Won't know that for sure unless it happens...

However you saying that makes me think if anyone could hang in long enough P M wouldn't have a leg to stand on because they're not technically tobacco products they're nicotine products not quite the same.

 

[Gracchus Grey]

If you actually read the letter it's pretty reasonable. That's how american copyright law works, and if you dont like it you can get out.


Shouldn't we be complaining about the need for F2V to advertise their products using coprwritten cigarette language?

 

[Stosh]

Well, I think this is the height of ridiculous.
Perhaps the ECF community could come up with some alternatives...

Like: Stuff Similar to Stuff in a Red Box But This Doesn't Kill You
Or: American Desperado Without Racking Lung Cough (Horse not included)
Or maybe: Horse-Riding-Big-Tobacco-Can-Suck-It Blend

I think any of these fine alternatives would work......

Dang, put me down for 30mL samplers of each, and I don't even like to vape tobacco flavors much!
Love the names, would just have to try them.

 

[JudgeVape]

Well, I am going to have to disagree with all of you. If I were Philip Morris, I would be doing exactly what they are doing.

E-cig companies are obviously trying to gain market share by associating their products with the trademark Marlboro so that they can gain market share. It is obvious to everyone that you can not sell Marlboro juice.

Philip Morris is also trying to assert their rights to "cowboy and cowboy imagery associated with tobacco products. First, you will not get sued for having a cowboy avatar on an e-cig forum - if you start selling e-cigs, expect a letter. You have to ask yourself, if someone said to you "Cowboy type cigarettes" Most people will think of Marlboro. So, the e-cig companies are trying to get their customers to associate their product with Marlboro by using the "cowboy" that Philip Morris spent a lot of time and money to get the public to associate with their product.

100% correct. Is PM displaying corporate greed? Probably, but this is not at all weak for a trademark case.

Frankly, numerous juice vendors have been playing it fast and loose with their juice names and marketing and F2V will not be the last one to get sued if they don't wise up and remove names and/or images associated with established tobacco products.

For example, BWB recently renamed their "Maxboro" juice to "Backo." I believe BWB did this pre-emptively rather than under a legal threat and it was absolutely the correct thing to do.

 

[JudgeVape]

Phillip morris had better be suing the Duke's estate, clint eastwood, Back to the future 3 and Red Dead redemption. Sorry but you can't "own" ALL cowboy imagery. That case is gonna get thrown out of course SO fast.

For starters, none of the things you mentioned are marketing tobacco (or in this case "tobacco") products, so they are not even applicable examples. And your last sentence is almost certainly dead wrong.

 

[GMoney]

100% correct. Is PM displaying corporate greed? Probably, but this is not at all weak for a trademark case.

Frankly, numerous juice vendors have been playing it fast and loose with their juice names and marketing and F2V will not be the last one to get sued if they don't wise up and remove names and/or images associated with established tobacco products.

For example, BWB recently renamed their "Maxboro" juice to "Backo." I believe BWB did this pre-emptively rather than under a legal threat and it was absolutely the correct thing to do.

Thank you, Your Honor!

I agree many vendors "have been playing it fast and loose", even if trademark infringement is a stretch is some cases, PM and other major tobacco cos have a strong trademark dilution case against many vendors.

Agreed, BWB handled this correctly.

Although, as far as the corporate greed is concerned, I would contend that PM would risk dilution of their "famous" marks by doing nothing.

 

[revolver]

I agree on most of being said...
Though I think there might be some cool implications behind this... We might be missing the bigger picture...

Big Tobacco is obviously not worried about someone using their branded stuff just because; meaning, as many said, why not going against 'marlboro' or more literal brandings...

Mmmmmm To me... They might be not against this per se, but because maybe they were interested in branding a soon-to-come Big-Tobacco e-cig this way...

Or maybe this 'RIDICULOUS' attitude is part of their plan to make some 'marketing noise' into the e-cig community for people in general to pay attention...

Or something else along those lines...

Dont know, I just feel it may sound a bit like this...

 

[cmdryker]

Sure feel sorry for all the bonanza fans, including myself look out pm is coming to get your video collection .