Phoenix issues, odd issues

[Levitas]

Okay - this is copied from an email I sent to the supplier, and modified for the forum. I bought a Phoenix from, it's not important. What is important is that it tastes TERRIBLE. If you're ready for a moderately long read, perhaps you can help me out.

"I immediately took off the factory coil and built my own made of 100% cotton gauze and the wire I purchased from you guys. I've heard ranting and raving on how awesome cotton wicks were, so naturally I wanted to try it out immediately.

It took me about 3 builds to really get it down without setting off an E1 error on the ProVari (indicating a short), and getting the resistance just right (~1.5-2.1ohms). I daresay, I am getting pretty damned good at wrapping coils.

However, the taste... just awful. It tastes like some sort of nasty I cannot explain. Here's what I've done so far:

-Boiled the 100% sterile cotton gauze: for 15 minutes, changing the water at 5 minute intervals
-Used a 100% unbleached/undyed cotton cloth: boiled at the same rate as above
-I made sure that the coil was as close to the 'posts' as possible, without causing a short: alleviating any possible "hotspots" (there is absolutely no 'red' in the wire, at all. It's moist and working...)
-There are absolutely no burn marks, or any indication of the plastic posts being burnt
-None of the wicks I wrapped came out burnt, I kept them very moist on each run
-I tried adjusting the casing to adjust the airflow
-I tried burning the wire with blue flame from the lighter, I did this around 7-10 times throughout the entire piece of wire

Okay, so here's the kicker:
-I used the original built coil, with silica wick, thinking that the problem stemmed from the cotton wick: I'm getting the same exact nasty taste.

So, I am confused. I take all of the juice out and I smell the cup: It smells of that nasty taste. Now, I've tried both silica (factory sent) wick, and my own cotton wicks and they both taste just terrible (and I mean terrible, not just a weird off-taste. I'm talking straight up I can't even taste my juice at all).

This leads me to believe that perhaps there is, by some chance, still some machine oil or some impurity on the cup of the atty itself. Or, perhaps I didn't burn the wire well enough. Well, I soaked the cup in 90% isopropyl alcohol and scrubbed it with q-tips. The taste is still just awful.

Anyways, I really don't believe that this is an issue of subjectively. I really just cannot taste my juice at all (it's the only juice I've vaped for almost a year now, Boba's Bounty). I have no clue as to why it tastes like it does, and I am running out of ideas. I apologize for the long winded post here. But, as you can tell, I am running out of options and I am getting a little frustrated. I just want it to work, without the nasty taste. Do you guys have any idea as to what might be happening here? Any ideas of what I can do? Please, I need some help."

Here's a pictures of the latest coil I built after I test ran it. It smelled like horrid unexplainable. But, nothing is burnt. This is the 100% cotton gauze, after the boil.

I have one other experiment to try, and I will get to it soon. I am going to rewick a Viva Nova with the exact same materials to try and figure things out. Has anyone experienced this before?

 

[notsmoking]

try boiling the whole atty.....then after it is dry, give it another shot

 

[Levitas]

try boiling the whole atty.....then after it is dry, give it another shot

You know what's funny? Upon discussing this issue with a buddy of mine, this was an idea that was brought up. I was afraid to do it because of the o rings, but at this point, I don't see what I have to lose.

 

[Off Topic]

I've seen a few reviews that said the flavor was off for the first day of use. I just got mine yesterday afternoon, and yeah, the flavor just isn't right.

I'm wondering if the wire doesn't have some type of industrial lubricant on it from the drawing process. I've seen some DIY vids where they heated the wire with a cig lighter to burn them off.

I'm going to give the atty that came with it another day. If the flavor doesn't come in right, I'm going to build one, and we'll see what happens from there.

 

[Switched]

I wasn't too fussy with the factory coils neither. OTOH I had ordered 2 from VB and one took longer than the other to break in (even with my own rebuilds) I am using .20mm kanthal and 3mm cottom in them. They take a lot of juice e.g 10-12 drops per fill and 8 -10 drops when the beginning of dratty hits

 

[Levitas]

I've seen a few reviews that said the flavor was off for the first day of use. I just got mine yesterday afternoon, and yeah, the flavor just isn't right.

I'm wondering if the wire doesn't have some type of industrial lubricant on it from the drawing process. I've seen some DIY vids where they heated the wire with a cig lighter to burn them off.

I'm going to give the atty that came with it another day. If the flavor doesn't come in right, I'm going to build one, and we'll see what happens from there.

Let me know what you get when you rebuild.

My problem was from both the factory build, and my own. I've tried 3 separate types of wicking, and they all taste awful. Also, I tried burning the wire before wrapping. I burned it around 7-10 times, until it got orange, each time. Still, awful.

I wasn't too fussy with the factory coils neither. OTOH I had ordered 2 from VB and one took longer than the other to break in (even with my own rebuilds) I am using .20mm kanthal and 3mm cottom in them. They take a lot of juice e.g 10-12 drops per fill and 8 -10 drops when the beginning of dratty hits

I don't get what you mean by 'fussy'? Does that mean you didn't like them?

The coils I build were nice and soaked. In the picture above, juice was dripping all over my finger whilst I took the photo.


These aren't dry hits I'm getting, folks. There is absolutely nothing burnt on any of the wicks, either of the plastic poles, or anywhere I can tell. This taste is coming from God knows where. I figured that maybe someone somewhere might have had a similar experience. But, I am starting to think that this problem is unique, and that maybe I got one with some sort of nasty error involved.

 

[PEneoark]

Ok, did you boil the whole atty or no?

Sent from my SGH-I897 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Levitas]

Ok, did you boil the whole atty or no?

Sent from my SGH-I897 using Tapatalk 2

Not yet, I will report back soon with those findings. I am currently doing some homework.

 

[nz1001]

after building the coil, use a micro screwdriver (flat) or niddle adjust the coil, so that:
- it's not touching the plastic on the posts
- it's not touching the posts
initial use (the heat) will cause coil to change shape and position slightly, do the above again...

on some of the RA (not just phoenix) the airhole is aligned with the posts, it must be between them (loosen the casing a bit, or add a drip tip o-ring) there should be nothing in the way between airhole and coil.

hope it helps.

 

[Levitas]

Okay, I have some results here.

Here is the coil before the test. Not my best work, but, it will manage. Rated 1.4ohms, started vaping it at 3.5v


I boiled the Phoenix. 5 minutes at first, then changed the water, and then for another 10 minutes.

I burned the wire, 8 times, all of the way through, with the blue flame from a lighter.

Result: It's better.

The taste, that awful taste, it was there intially. I didn't give up. I kept burning on it and eventually, I either got used to it, or, it was so minor that I no longer noticed it, or, it went away. So, this is great, I think.

I kept vaping on it. Adjusting the casing, and I started getting plumes of vapor, good good. However, the taste, lacking. It was eating juice like a locomotive, which is good in my mind, it means it's working.

The flavor, it just doesn't seem to be coming out. I can still get notes of something odd, but I figure it just to be the cotton. Boba's Bounty? Not really coming into play too well (can't taste it).

Here are some pics after testing for a couple of minutes.


So, I am still vaping on it. Adding more juice (running extremely low, by the way. Thus the reason my testing ceased at the moment). Checking the coils every now and again, and it looks like it's browning more so in the center of the coil. I think I might have wound the coil too tight? But, it's still feeding juice, and it's not burnt, so, I dunno.

I also tried to brush my teeth and tongue, just to see if I needed a fresh palate. I think I wore out my buds from all of the testing. So, I'm going to try it again later.

The good news is, I think I cannot taste the nasty awful taste anymore. I am hoping that this is the case and I will report on it more, later.

 

[nz1001]

browning is good. it's like barbecue, it gets better...
for me, not a chain vaper, cotton wicks too well. it spits and muffles flavor for a long time at begining.
my favorite is ss mesh with cotton wick, tea bag string, or silica inside. for those juice that leaves a lot of gunk i use silica straight - pull/twist out the wick, burn off gunk on the coil, and slide/twist in a new one. for ss and silica, it gives good flavor from the 1st puff, and i like the taste on them better.
oh, smaller/thiner wick breaks in faster, and suppose to produce finer flavor.

 

[Off Topic]

It could have something to do with the airflow inside the device. I've got the factory coil well broken in, and it tastes good, but.... still...

It's not as good as a fresh DC carto.

I've read about some people setting this device up dual coil. Fitting two 4 ohm coils in that hole without anything touching would be a feat unto itself.

 

[PEneoark]

Oh yeah....I forgot to mention this. Make the air hole larger with 1/16" drill bit. It will make a world of difference.

Sent from my SGH-I897 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Levitas]

To address some of the responses:

The air flow is much improved by keeping the casing mostly unscrewed. I also pushed down the coil a little further.

I do not own a drill, so, making the hole bigger is a no go at the moment.

Since I have effectively ran too low of Boba's Bounty, I've been trying a new flavor in it. Raf-a-licious, also from Alien Visions. The thing is hitting like a tank now. It seems that the boil/burning of the wire was effective. I don't taste the nasty, at all.

I just experienced a nic-fit after a mere few puffs at my normal 12mg. This actually is becoming a concern of mine. I've read that this experience is possibly due to the nicotine being delivered better, but, I am skeptical.

For those who use these types of attys, and use 100% cotton wicks, have you experienced any shortness of breath, lightheadedness, dizziness, a different feeling in the lungs when inhaling? I am not saying that these are symptoms that I have, personally, I am merely trying to figure something out.

At any rate, as of now, it's working good. I will rebuild a new coil tomorrow, when my Gorilla juice comes in. Since I am very familiar with that flavor as well, I will re-test to make sure, for sure, that the nasty flavor is gone. This is looking better by the moment, I hope it remains to be so.

Oh, and thanks to everyone with the suggestions. I will make sure to post my results of the GJ testing.

 

[Switched]

To address some of the responses:

The air flow is much improved by keeping the casing mostly unscrewed. I also pushed down the coil a little further.

I do not own a drill, so, making the hole bigger is a no go at the moment.

Since I have effectively ran too low of Boba's Bounty, I've been trying a new flavor in it. Raf-a-licious, also from Alien Visions. The thing is hitting like a tank now. It seems that the boil/burning of the wire was effective. I don't taste the nasty, at all.

I just experienced a nic-fit after a mere few puffs at my normal 12mg. This actually is becoming a concern of mine. I've read that this experience is possibly due to the nicotine being delivered better, but, I am skeptical.

For those who use these types of attys, and use 100% cotton wicks, have you experienced any shortness of breath, lightheadedness, dizziness, a different feeling in the lungs when inhaling? I am not saying that these are symptoms that I have, personally, I am merely trying to figure something out.

At any rate, as of now, it's working good. I will rebuild a new coil tomorrow, when my Gorilla juice comes in. Since I am very familiar with that flavor as well, I will re-test to make sure, for sure, that the nasty flavor is gone. This is looking better by the moment, I hope it remains to be so.

Oh, and thanks to everyone with the suggestions. I will make sure to post my results of the GJ testing.

As you have come to find out it hits like a freight train so yes you will need to curb your current vapings habits. I vape at 6mg and have noticed this. Wrt cotton wick, unless your burning it, it should not be a problem it hasn't been for me.

 

[Off Topic]

Levitas,

Your symptoms could just be that you got it tasting great, and you vaped too much. When I perfected my DIY, I had to go way down on the nic content, because I vaped so much of it it was making me sick. Once I found my nicotine sweet spot, combined with my perfect flavor. It was bliss.

To get back on topic:

With my phoenix, I'm finding, oddly, that the flavor is getting better as I turn the voltage down. I'm now throwing 3.3 volts at a 2 ohm atty. I normally run 4 volts on a 1.5ohm dual coil carto. But that goes back to the resistance that the juice sees rather than what the battery sees. It seems that my little ego backup would be just as good at powering this atty as my provari.

 

[Off Topic]

I'm finding that the radial position of the airhole plays a role as well. When the airhole blows against a post, the flavor gets more burnt. When I screw the cover tight, then back it off till it is perpendicular to the coil, the flavor is stronger, with much less heat. I'm considering if I don't need to make the hole bigger, rather it needs another hole on the opposite side. This may prove to be even more important, should I figure out how to fit a dual coil configuration in the device.

 

[skelley]

Add a o-ring from a drip tip. You can squeeze the o-ring which will allow you to line up the air hole for best performance.
I use a hybrid coil (cotton core/ss mesh) and it has changed how I perceive the flavors to be much like clearos did vs. cartos.
Some of the juices I wasn't crazy about are awesome and unfortunately the opposite is true. Some juices I thought were great are not as impressive. I will say that the flavor from the atty is 'crisper'. I didn't really understand it when someone mentioned it, but after repeated use, I get it.

 

[Levitas]

@ Off Topic - The only real symptom I experienced was result of either too much nicotine, or lack of oxygen. I am familiar with both, and I dunno which is more prevalent when using the device. Thus my asking if anyone else had experienced similar symptoms. The problem is, I wasn't vaping on it very long. It reminded me of smoking a cigarette really fast, but a tad more extreme. I had, maybe 7 puffs, or less. I tried again last night, and, it's the same.

The good thing is, if I need nicotine, and I need it fast, this is just the thing to have around. The unfortunate thing is, I don't know if I can make it my primary atty, because of how potent it is.

Yeah, I am going to make another coil, and try and get the resistance higher. That way, I can vape at a lower power rating and see if that improves, or decreases the beastness of it, rather.

@ Skelley - Yeah, I am eventually going to do that. Once I get this sucker set up to a science, and to the point in which I can utilize it consistently with no negative repercussions, then I will work on getting it setup with o rings, etc.

That was one thing I feared. Boba's Bounty, my obvious favorite juice, is still tasting a little mute. But, I tried some Raf-a-licious, and the flavor wasn't all bad. I could taste it better than I could the Boba's, and I believe it to have less flavor. It might turn out that I will be using regular attys, or another device for Boba's and just use the Phoenix for a back-up flavor.

More testing needed, but first, more juice needed.

 

[TBinAZ]

More than likely, and this is just speculation on my part at this time, is that your kanthal is heating up so fast that it was burning the juice instead of atomizing it. One key with wick and wire is to allow the coil to heat up more slowly which can be obtained with lower voltages. It has been suggested to start at a lower voltage and then work your way up to taste, not the other way around. See if this helps.