Plastic Bottles & E-Liquid

[FloridaHokie]

I think Liv2ski brings up a valid point. Could happen. Matt, what I said was too bad I don't have my Photo-microscopy setup anymore. I'd love to have investigated these bottles up close and personal. Alas, that was about 8 hobbies ago! I used to spend my free time photographing Protozoans. (I really need to get a life)

Hahahahaha!! I once had to give a speech about warm water amoeba's, so I'd be in nerdy heaven with your protozoan pics

Maybe i'm being pessimistic, but if we are worried about contaminants being in the plastic bottles, how are we going to do something DIFFERENT with possible contaminants already on the glass bottles?? Wouldn't organisms that would survive on plastic, survive just fine on glass too?

 

[Pete54]

Actually, I wasn't going to be hunting microbes. I wanted to see if there was visible signs of degradation to the plastic itself. Matts pictures show that something is going on. I figured some good extreme close ups would show something. Things that appear smooth to the naked eye are quite often anything but that under a microscope.

 

[mwa102464]

Man I tell ya what come along these day,,,,,,,


I don't think to many bugs can live in Nic, so that's not a big worry but ya anything in plastic could be in glass if that where the case, I'm just more worried about the plastic though right now. If someone is making bottles out of garbage material and labeling it improperly it wouldn't surprise me coming from China, or anywhere for that matter these days. It really does amaze me though the taste I get from storing in and using the glass. I just pulled a bottle out of the fridge that I had stored a while ago ( in glass ) and compared it to a little of the same juice I had left in a plastic bottle from one of my bottom feeders,,, there is a HUGE difference in the quality and taste of the juice. The juice in the plastic was also darker and its from the same order as the one in the fridge, when I taste the two juices side by side in the same 357 Attys the juice in the glass taste like the day I got it with steeping of course, the juice in the plastic has a distinctive taste that is raunchy, and since I've been vaping it for a while it was very easy to tell the difference.

 

[mwa102464]

Pete I have a good Cannon camera that I used to take those pics, but I'm no photographer,,, if there is anything I can do with that camera to get better pics let me know, I know its not the same as a microscope, just if there is a special setting let me know. There really is something going on with those bottles, it isnt so easy to tell from a foot away in broad daylight either, and you can see from those pics even in the light its hard to tell,, but once I go dark and under the light it is more then obvious whats happening I think.

 

[Pete54]

The only thing I can think of, and I'm sure you already have, is to make sure you use the macro setting. I'm assuming it's digital (because that's all there is these days), so changing to a macro lens is probably out of the question. Funny thing is that I just bought one of my Granddaughters a really nice microscope (for school) but she lives in California. I'm not that knowledgeable with camera's but with a microscope I'd use dark field illumination to make the details pop.

 

[FloridaHokie]

Man I tell ya what come along these day,,,,,,,


I don't think to many bugs can live in Nic, so that's not a big worry but ya anything in plastic could be in glass if that where the case, I'm just more worried about the plastic though right now. If someone is making bottles out of garbage material and labeling it improperly it wouldn't surprise me coming from China, or anywhere for that matter these days. It really does amaze me though the taste I get from storing in and using the glass. I just pulled a bottle out of the fridge that I had stored a while ago ( in glass ) and compared it to a little of the same juice I had left in a plastic bottle from one of my bottom feeders,,, there is a HUGE difference in the quality and taste of the juice. The juice in the plastic was also darker and its from the same order as the one in the fridge, when I taste the two juices side by side in the same 357 Attys the juice in the glass taste like the day I got it with steeping of course, the juice in the plastic has a distinctive taste that is raunchy, and since I've been vaping it for a while it was very easy to tell the difference.

Hmmmm.... interesting.... do you have access to any litmus papers, or PH tests of any kind? (I guess I'm trying to figure out where the source of the "raunchy" is coming from)

 

[Pete54]

Better yet, oblique illumination. It provides great detail and contrast.

 

[DaveP]

Guys, this is an interesting thread at the very least. I've examined the bottles from various venders and haven't come up with a good way to tell what me bottles are made of. Several from one vendor have 730 on one side of the bottom and either a 2 or 3 on the other side of the bottom. All are a slightly cloudy plastic, but even and clean looking.

The best bottles I see contain Dekang liquids. These are from another vendor and the bottles are crystal clear like glass and require a good amount of pressure to dent or squeeze. I have some from the same vendor that are 30ml instead of 10ml and those are cloudy like the vendor's bottles I described in my first paragraph.

I went back and opened up a shoe box containing liquids up to 2 years old. Those bottles look nice and uniform, whether they are clear or slightly opaque. I still haven't found a bottle that shows evidence of decomposition. I've drank water from a bottle left in a hot car before and experienced the plastic taste. That's one that is immediately noticeable, but those bottles seem to be able to leach without visible effects on clarity. Either that or I'm lucky and no leaching is going on from the vendors I use.

I'll be following along here to see what the final verdict is on plastic containers. I do know that there are no markings on the bottom of some of my bottles and the ones that have numbers aren't consistent and aren't uniform from bottle to bottle.

 

[mwa102464]

Hmmmm.... interesting.... do you have access to any litmus papers, or PH tests of any kind? (I guess I'm trying to figure out where the source of the "raunchy" is coming from)

There is no doubt about it in my mind its the plastic bottle, same as you would get from a bottle of water if it sat in your home or car for a while not kept really cold, that's where its coming from. When I took the same exact 2 juices and vaped them out of my 357 Atty's there was a very noticeable difference. I even actually tasted the two juice and they taste very different too.

 

[mwa102464]

Guys, this is an interesting thread at the very least. I've examined the bottles from various venders and haven't come up with a good way to tell what me bottles are made of. Several from one vendor have 730 on one side of the bottom and either a 2 or 3 on the other side of the bottom. All are a slightly cloudy plastic, but even and clean looking.
market on the bottle



You can find what material by number here Dave = Plastic recycling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia there should be a 1-7 and your harder clear glass looking plastic is the PET that you described,,, there should be a 1-7 marked in your bottles bottom inside of a triangle.

 

[Kay1959]

ok....so I admit I haven't read this WHOLE thread lol!....but it's a good one!
Is there a Doctor in the house that could examine these bottles under the micro?
I think I'm going to try and find some glass bottles on Amazon or something after reading just some of this thread.

 

[joelongwood]

Even though Im not sure that the plastic bottles pose a significant health risk (after all, I smoked for 50 years, and for most of those years I KNEW that cigs were killing me), I figured I would look around and see if I could find some nice glass bottles to store my juice in. I came upon this site which has a wide variety of nice looking amber and cobalt blue glass bottles for low prices, and most are under $1. Here's the link:
Specialty Bottle - Glass Bottles, Glass Jars, Tin Containers, Vials, Plastic Bottles, Plastic Jars for Food, Cosmetics, Candles and Aromatherapy

 

[mwa102464]

Joelongwood, thanks for the post on a place to buy the glass bottles, Kay1959 here is also another place to buy them =

Specialty Bottle - Glass Bottles, Glass Jars, Tin Containers, Vials, Plastic Bottles, Plastic Jars for Food, Cosmetics, Candles and Aromatherapy

haha ok same place,,,, someone else posted this website earlier in the thread people

It would be nice to have someone we could send the bottles to for examination, I would love to send the ones I have an issue with that's for sure.!!!

 

[joelongwood]

I guess I missed one of the 190+ posts......not surprising, at my age! In any case, if for nothing else, I think the brown or blue bottles would just look better than the plastic bottles. Psychologically, they may make the juice taste better as well. Kind of like the audio test they did many years ago when they played two pairs of loudspeakers for a group of people, switching back and forth between pairs. The speakers were exactly the same, except for the grill cloth.......one pair being red, the other brown. Invariably, the people chose the red speakers as sounding more "lively" and more "exciting", while the brown pair elicited comments, such as "dull-sounding," and "muddy." I'm not a chemist, so I don't know what effect plastic has on e-juice, but I do know that glass is more aesthetically pleasing, and "looks" like it would be a better medium for juice storage.
I'll be ordering some bottles today.

 

[mwa102464]

Joe, I don't think it's a Psychological thing at all,,,,, put some juice or a couple different juices in a plastic bottle and let it sit for a couple of weeks, do the same with glass,,, then taste both in a new Atty and you will see the difference. Also set the two Glass and plastic bottles on the window sill and look for the color to change in the plastic bottle.

 

[YKruss]

Will throw my anecdotal stuff into the pile -

I have my last 30 ml Dekang bottle marked "2" on the bottom with June 2009 date on it.
Visually it's a clear as glass bottle, as DaveP said, and the juice is Flue Cured 24mg.

Oh, and it tasted the same as the juice from first bottle of that batch IMO.

So put me down too for no visible signs of etching/leeching.

 

[markfm]

It'll vary depending on what is in the eliquid as well as the source/quality of the bottle.

I used a single USP 6ml boston round dropper bottle as my daily-carry bottle, first for filling cartos then for topping off a tank, for 9 months, 6 ml/day, lots of daily use, no problems. No etching/deterioration/discoloration that I could see, and I actually did keep an eye on it. On the other hand I've had some other eliquids, and especially base flavorings (for DIY) that absolutely trashed the bottles they came in.

Some of the overseas stuff in particular varies. I have one item that was supposed to be standard black delrin that bleeds dark blue on contact with my pretty mellow all-day-vape. There's no path for it to get into the liquid I'm vaping, but it is rather amazing to see The liquid doesn't cause any reaction with real delrin. Another person had a post recently, sounds like they also ran across some "delrin" that wasn't.

 

[Mr.Mann]

Yesterday I received two bottles of a cinnamon flavor and I already noticed a problem. The inside of the bottles seem to have a scratched, almost webbing thing happening that is not residue. It really is annoying as I was going to transfer the contents of the bottles to glass when the glass arrived. Since I am vaping using attys now, the flavor is much more pronounced and vivid and I can detect something clearly off in flavor. There is also no reverse filtration system to be used to get the flavor pure once tainted. So, I will not be buying any cinnamon flavors that do not come in glass from jump street and maybe I will not be buying cinnamon period. Boy does this suck, because I cannot deny the existence of a problem here. Once perception is heightened, that which was invisible then becomes blatant.

p.s. I do know for a fact that vendors read these threads, and considering the hotness of this thread, I am sure notice will be taken! I will say it again,"thanks mwa102464!"

 

[mwa102464]

Will throw my anecdotal stuff into the pile -

I have my last 30 ml Dekang bottle marked "2" on the bottom with June 2009 date on it.
Visually it's a clear as glass bottle, as DaveP said, and the juice is Flue Cured 24mg.

Oh, and it tasted the same as the juice from first bottle of that batch IMO.

So put me down too for no visible signs of etching/leeching.

1-Juice one bottle, the problem isnt this inclusive, it varies with different bottles, flavoring, and additives YKruss

 

[mwa102464]

Yesterday I received two bottles of a cinnamon flavor and I already noticed a problem. The inside of the bottles seem to have a scratched, almost webbing thing happening that is not residue. It really is annoying as I was going to transfer the contents of the bottles to glass when the glass arrived. Since I am vaping using attys now, the flavor is much more pronounced and vivid and I can detect something clearly off in flavor. There is also no reverse filtration system to be used to get the flavor pure once tainted. So, I will not be buying any cinnamon flavors that do not come in glass from jump street and maybe I will not be buying cinnamon period. Boy does this suck, because I cannot deny the existence of a problem here. Once perception is heightened, that which was invisible then becomes blatant.

p.s. I do know for a fact that vendors read these threads, and considering the hotness of this thread, I am sure notice will be taken! I will say it again,"thanks mwa102464!"

Unfortunately Cinnamon is a great vape but wreaks havoc not only health wise as Kurt our ECF Chemist said but clearly the plastic bottles can NOT handle this flavoring, especially the Cinnamon oils that are used just tears bottles up, I don't care what plastic bottle it kills them. If your going to continue to vape Cinn juices I would demand it be sent in Glass or your playing with fire more then you may be aware of, just sucks because its a great add for many juices. Thanks for the post Mr Mann and letting us know what you've found. As far as vendors thank for not mentioning any names, but I hope these vendors smarten up and get with the program the ones that continue to use plastics may have some legal ramification coming at them down the road if they keep using the plastic with certain flavorings, and without knowing every single flavor that has an issue with plastics I really think Glass should just be THE STANDARD in the industry.