PMTAs - who is doing what?

[HigherStateD]

For vape packages? If so, was the reason because the customs form lied about the contents? Were these packages from fasttech? About when was this?

No. Not vape products. I'd imagine what was confiscated would be considered far worse, by federal agents. Long and short of it is, they can't prove you ordered what ever it is, nor are they willing to expend the resources to do so, unless you're Pablo Escobar.

 

[AvaOrchid]

There are a good amount of people on ECF that vape 0 nic. I suspect most smokers/vapers are mostly addicted to the act of smoking and vaping and maybe even the throat hit, but not actually addicted to the nicotine. Only way for a person to find out what they are addicted to is to drop down the nic and see how it affects them. I dropped about 8mg 2 months ago and I don't vape any more than I used to in order to compensate. I went from about 15mg to 7mg. My goal is to drop to 3 maybe sometime next year.

If you consciously drop the nicotine down then your mind can play tricks on you addiction is crazy with what it can do to your brain. What you can do is take two identical bottles mix them up one of them with zero Nic the other 3 ( if your on any higher than 3 mg I wouldn't suggest doing this it could be a shock to your system) or even better have someone else do this for you and then grab a bottle and use it and then when you're done using the second bottle see if you had any difference. I mean that might not work exactly but some variant of that. The way that I found out that I'm not as addicted to nicotine at all compared to the hand-to-mouth and seeing vapor was by accidentally using 0 Nic when I was used to 3 mg. I didn't know for quite a while that I was using 0 Nic until I just happened to see the label LOL I was a little bit edgy Maybe I got a headache a little bit more often than I usually would but it wasn't a big deal. Now I'm finishing off Ejuice that has nicotine in it and I have a stash of nicotine but it doesn't really make any difference if I'm using 3, 1.5 or zero I don't notice

 

[Opinionated]

Overseas vapers buy largely from local and Chinese vendors.

So they already have access to product with reasonable shipping costs. It would not be worth buying from the USA unless they need a hard-to-find item that local vendors don't have, and there's not enough of a market for that to keep a business profitable/viable.

Also, because of TPD, it would be illegal to import or export non-TPD products so few, if any, will take those risks seeing how those buyers have access to those products already, with reasonable shipping rates.

First, it's far easier and less expensive to become TPD complaint (or TPD approved) than it is to become FDA approved.

Also, some U.S. manufacturers of higher end mechanical mods (Armageddon mods etc.) will continue to sell overseas...

Won't be smok mods selling, but look at how well Provari did in the overseas market... the majority of Provari's business came from overseas.

So there is still a market abroad for U.S. manufacturers... and a good one at that.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

First, it's far easier and less expensive to become TPD complaint (or TPD approved) than it is to become FDA approved.

Also, some U.S. manufacturers of higher end mechanical mods (Armageddon mods etc.) will continue to sell overseas...

Won't be smok mods selling, but look at how well Provari did in the overseas market... the majority of Provari's business came from overseas.

So there is still a market abroad for U.S. manufacturers... and a good one at that.

I wonder, is it legal to produce a "tobacco product" (as defined by the FDA) within the USA that doesn't have PMTA if the intent is to only export it overseas?

 

[Opinionated]

I wonder, is it legal to produce a "tobacco product" (as defined by the FDA) within the USA that doesn't have PMTA if the intent is to only export it overseas?

Yes, it's legal...

FDA approval is only necessary for sale within the U.S., they don't care what you sell overseas, so long as you pay taxes on your income.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

I have gotten such letters in the past. They don't return the parcel, they destroy it.

Not the one I got specifically, but it read the sameView attachment 902713

Oh yes, I remember that letter now. Probably 15- years ago I ordered generic medication from India and it got intercepted. I got one of those letters.

I had previously ordered an received the meds successfully prior to that, but they started really dropping the hammer and that shipment (incidentally my final shipment lol) got intercepted.

 

[HigherStateD]

First, it's far easier and less expensive to become TPD complaint (or TPD approved) than it is to become FDA approved.

Also, some U.S. manufacturers of higher end mechanical mods (Armageddon mods etc.) will continue to sell overseas...

Won't be smok mods selling, but look at how well Provari did in the overseas market... the majority of Provari's business came from overseas.

So there is still a market abroad for U.S. manufacturers... and a good one at that.

I'd also imagine there are plenty of resellers overseas willing to pay pennies on the wholesale dollar for Smok mods, and retailers here will be left little options besides this.

 

[Opinionated]

I'd also imagine there are plenty of resellers overseas willing to pay pennies on the wholesale dollar for Smok mods, and retailers here will be left little options besides this.

I think before many retailers lose too much they'll just be giving stuff away to their employees and good customers...

Can't think of which state now, but one state did a flavor ban and several mom and pops were like, before we throw this stock away we will give it away.....

A loss is a loss... at one point you may as well give it to those you know who will benefit most.

 

[HigherStateD]

I think before many retailers lose too much they'll just be giving stuff away to their employees and good customers...

Can't think of which state now, but one state did a flavor ban and several mom and pops were like, before we throw this stock away we will give it away.....

A loss is a loss... at one point you may as well give it to those you know who will benefit most.

I know I would if I owned a shop, just to flood the US with as much as possible.

 

[440BB]

I expect some last minute selloffs, possibly by consolidators who buy out entire inventories. I believe that's what Eightvape and Ejuicesteals have done over the last year. The difference is that there is potentially a hard cutoff date for their sales before they may be subject to prosecution.

 

[sofarsogood]

Customs has a list of terms, may be hundreds, to classify what's in an overseas shipment. I don't recall that ecigs or vaping terms are on the list but may be that changed. Does anyone have an overseas package displaying ecig terminology? I believe customs also treats consumer packages different than large shipments for resale. What interests me is whether any nic seller in the US has announced whether they will, or will not, be selling nic after September 9th. If all nic sellers were shut down how would eliquid makers get nic for eliquid that remains on the market because they filed a PMTA. There is going to be pre mix eliquid for sale from at least a few sellers.

 

[zoiDman]

...
Not sure if a big vendor like MVS, MFS etc. can survive selling the few E-juices and hardware that submitted a PMTA.

Yeah... And speaking of MVS, they are offering 25% Off e-Liquids (ends Today) with the Code: AUPO4

Probably a way of Reducing Inventory before the Last Gasp Blow-Out Sale that is coming.

BTW - Retailers stuck with Inventory is by No Means trivial. But Cut the Price in Half and Someone will (most likely) buy it.

But what would Scare Me the Most would be being Stuck in a Lease I Couldn't Break.

 

[Katya]

What interests me is whether any nic seller in the US has announced whether they will, or will not, be selling nic after September 9th. If all nic sellers were shut down how would eliquid makers get nic for eliquid that remains on the market because they filed a PMTA.

I talked to my nic vendor and they are in the process of completing their PMTA so they will be open for business after September 9th.

 

[zoiDman]

I talked to my nic vendor and they are in the process of completing their PMTA so they will be open for business after September 9th.

When their Filling becomes Public, or when it is OK for you to Post the Companies Name, Please Do.

 

[Katya]

When their Filling becomes Public, or when it is OK for you to Post the Companies Name, Please Do.

Will do. It was a private conversation so I can't/don't feel comfortable sharing it in public yet. Haven't seen any official announcements yet.

 

[Opinionated]

I expect some last minute selloffs, possibly by consolidators who buy out entire inventories. I believe that's what Eightvape and Ejuicesteals have done over the last year. The difference is that there is potentially a hard cutoff date for their sales before they may be subject to prosecution.

My husband went into a small mom and pop when we were out to one of my appointments because he forgot to bring some juice and he said they were stocked to the gills and was fairly well surprised because the 9th is looming but he's thinking they are planning to sell until they are forced to stop... which may be the case in smaller towns/areas...

 

[HigherStateD]

Customs has a list of terms, may be hundreds, to classify what's in an overseas shipment. I don't recall that ecigs or vaping terms are on the list but may be that changed. Does anyone have an overseas package displaying ecig terminology? I believe customs also treats consumer packages different than large shipments for resale. What interests me is whether any nic seller in the US has announced whether they will, or will not, be selling nic after September 9th. If all nic sellers were shut down how would eliquid makers get nic for eliquid that remains on the market because they filed a PMTA. There is going to be pre mix eliquid for sale from at least a few sellers.

Last I got a regulated mod from overseas, it was labeled as a "metal tube"

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

Does anyone have an overseas package displaying ecig terminology?

I do. BestEcig (used to be kinda popular with ECFers back in the day. They sell mainly old (but new stock) stuff like cigalikes with various threadings and eGo stuff. Anyhow, they're the only Chinese ecig seller I've ordered from that actually correctly declares the items as "electronic cigarette vaporizer".

I hate this because I wanted to place another order with them but I'm afraid that it will get to customs after Sept 8. However, the nice thing about the company is that they will reship or refund you if confiscated by customs.

 

[puffon]

Just got this from River Supply:

 

[Katya]

Just got this from River Supply:

Good for them! So now we know of two nic vendors who are submitting. Things are looking up!