Pricing discussion

[penguiness]

On my soapbox:

There either are not enough of us (vapors in general, not just on the forum) who care enough to put effort and energy into motivating our congresspersons, or our leaders don't care if millions of people suddenly started smoking cigarettes again. We have more than 2 dozen vape shops in my area. I know we must have thousands (or hundred of) people here who vape. When I vape in public, most times those who vape outnumber the cigarette smokers. I have tried to get people moving to send one email. I visited every single vape shop, talked to the owners and/or managers. I was asked to leave by 2 of them. They did not want politics in their shop. I know it is their loss, but it is not just their loss. It is ours, too.

Regardless of which, there are just too many people that sit around and wait for someone else to do it. Sad situation on all counts.

 

[Feignix]

Well, if we're being "honest" let's also be clear. I never once criticized anybody. Not Clark, not Nicoticket, and not a single forum member (before now). I simply voiced my concern about the rise in prices (as did many other forum members in other threads) as well as the early release of a SR that Clark himself stated multiple times that he would let steep because it wasn't nearly ready. I never questioned his motives or accused him of anything. You, on the other hand, were rude, disrespectful and accusatory to me personally.

While I was asking for the reasoning behind a business charging a high price for an unsteeped eliquid, you were posting personal insults directed at a community member and loyal Nicoticket customer. I had a reasonably justified complaint directed at a business over a rushed-out-of-the-door product sold for a high price. You were tossing out personal insults saying how I "don't realize that e-liquids are a LUXORY item".. and how you're "wondering about how many soda's at over a $1 a pop these people purchase in a week" (zero BTW).. or "how many times did they hit the drive through" (I'm disabled and can't drive and due to Celiac disease I can't really eat fast food anyway).

Your "restraint" didn't seem to slow your insults down as you continued the personal attacks saying how I was "whining" and "complaining". You go on to cast aspersions based on age saying "there's A LOT of that in these more recent generations". I'm 40 and far more considerate in how I treat others than you are at whatever age.

You then try to justify your haughty insults by saying how you've "put MULTIPLE as in 2 or 3 orders in one week and even made a joke about it and I've also plugged the heck out of Nicoticket during the same time frame". Wow. Same here. Maybe I should feel empowered to be disrespectful to people who don't order as often as I do. It seems to work for you.

So you then go on to explain how "Some people are putting their disappointment out there over a juice not being pre-steeped enough when they haven't even TRIED it yet!" True, but it was Clark who said himself "with regard to this release - it's definitely NOT ready to vape in MY humble opinion". I'll take him at his word.

Then your "restrained" post offers up these wise words, "NOBODY'S twisting your arm and forcing you to buy these NON necessity items aka luxury or "premiums"!" I never claimed that. Thanks for the clarification, but you are wrong, at least in a way. Clark said as much himself when he posted "The people who do [buy all of the short runs] will have the opportunity to contribute to the discussion about "which 10 flavors will carry us forward into the next evolution of Nicoticket." The folks who don't, won't." So if we don't buy all of the short runs we won't be involved in the discussion about which flavors will continue to be made. His words. I actually understand his point so I never called him out about it. Those are the rules he set. It makes sense but it's still exclusionary.

You finish your first post with "I ramble a bit, but in my HUMBLE opinion at least some of this NEEDED to be said!". Some of it perhaps... but your personal insults and reason-less questioning of my eating, drinking and purchasing habits are meaningless and juvenile.

You do clarify in your next post that "I "believe" that you didn't INTEND to be rude or disrespectful, I was just voicing MY opinions as delicately as I could given the circumstances" Let's be clear. I questioned a business decision made by a company I respect in a dignified manner. Because you disagreed with that you personally insulted me and questioned my character.

One of these things is not like the other.

Edit: I'm also sorry for my part in derailing this thread. I didn't see all of the above posts and this one took some time to write. I know this isn't the place for all of this but I feel like I was respectful in my questions to Clark and was unjustly attacked for asking them. Again, I'm sorry for the trouble it caused.

Wow, you really got it twisted! As far as me being hostile...I WAS a bit upset over some of the comments I read and I stand by that I "respectfully" and with restraint voiced that as well as my opinions. I also did joke and "kid" around about it, in an attempt to "lighten" it up, and if you can't tell by reading my posts my comments were very much directed in an "in general" way, although I have no problem admitting that yes, obviously your posts were one of the ones that added to my being frustrated.

Here's where I'll apologize for any problems I've caused and for participating in a "derailment". Evidently "honesty" doesn't exactly go both ways though and since I don't want to further derail the thread I'm not going to respond everything you've been accused me of, but I will say this. Your really just a little too emotionally invested in this whole deal. I was over my frustration in about two seconds into my post. That's the thing about written messages, some people can't always infer the intended message being sent out.

I don't have anything personally against you, again it was more of your "complaints" and "criticisms" of the prices that NT charges however you want to spin it. I'm sorry that you now have a "personal" issue with me, as is obvious with your last post and the fact that you sent me a PM I've yet to read and I don't want to at this point.

You're not the only person with physical issues and anyone who knows me knows that. At the end of the day, while it's great and I do put that out there A LOT, and as much as I love vaping it's not me WORLD! It's simply something that tastes great and keeps me off of analogues.

As far as it being about the banana, that was my other issues, that a lengthy criticism was made over the price of it and other SR's and the fact that it wasn't "steeped" when it wasn't even tried. Just because Kent likes a LOOOONG steep doesn't obviously mean we ALL do, as Katy's opinion testifies to that. However just like I usually do in my personal life anymore I regret that I said anything now and wish I would have kept my "honesty" and "opinions" to myself on the matter. Like I said at the end of my last post, it really isn't ALL that crucial to me and in my world, but I think for now I'll be limiting how much I post. Admins free feel to remove any of my posts that are found to be inappropiate.

 

[DaBucs]

just to jump here on quoting Clark, he didn't say all of the short runs, but that if you participate then you would be able to be part of the decision for what flavors carry forward.

I interpret it as if you buy one sr, then that gives you the opportunity to be involved in the selection process.

he also for those on the fence says that he is willing to work with you if you really want to try a sr

ok and now on to pudding, do like banana pudding....I like banana cream pie even better...now I want some

 

[kinggirl]

I am TERRIFIED if the FDA takes over things. I look at what a total mess they have made in the actual food industry. I firmly believe Monsanto is the devil! I shop at whole foods just so I know what food I'm putting into my body and where it was grown. I am the same way with my juice! I'm on the other end of the spectrum. I trust you Clark that if there's a price hike, then there's a valid reason behind it. You've been nothing but kind and forthcoming with your followers and it's a rarity that a business owner takes the time to stay in front of his people on a daily basis. I've also believed in the "you get what you pay for" theory. In my industry, sure there is competition that will always be cheaper, but you don't get the consistency in the end product. Same with your juice. And with juice this good, you deserve to make some money for yourself as well!

If the FDA takes over and someone like Philip Morris is making the juice, I'm out. Or I'll have to get Clarks phone number and go into the black market.

 

[solace.discord]

On my soapbox:

There either are not enough of us (vapors in general, not just on the forum) who care enough to put effort and energy into motivating our congresspersons, or our leaders don't care if millions of people suddenly started smoking cigarettes again. We have more than 2 dozen vape shops in my area. I know we must have thousands (or hundred of) people here who vape. When I vape in public, most times those who vape outnumber the cigarette smokers. I have tried to get people moving to send one email. I visited every single vape shop, talked to the owners and/or managers. I was asked to leave by 2 of them. They did not want politics in their shop. I know it is their loss, but it is not just their loss. It is ours, too.

Regardless of which, there are just too many people that sit around and wait for someone else to do it. Sad situation on all counts.

I am a vaper, I am proud of my not-burning-tobacco accomplishment and I STAND UP! I've even snagged a few non-vapers/smokers into our fight against ludicrous FDA stuffs. ridiculous is ridiculous, no matter how you spell it.

back on topic, pricing.. VALUE. are you getting what YOU think is worth the price? for me, the answer is "hells yeah."

I know this happens a lot, but Rob from REO and Clark from Nicoticket are the best vendors I have found. from value, to Customer Service and ease of communication, listening to their customer base and providing new and exciting or upgraded products- and respective support communities- can't be beat.

this is what vaping is about to me.. and I couldn't have done it for this long without ECF, Reos and Nicoticket. I'm in it for the loooooong haul.

 

[ScandaLeX]

Jumps in like I usually do.............hey peeps!!!!!!!!!!

@Coralline @Feign ~ Both of you have some valid points.
To those that haven't been around as long as others, Clark has always encouraged everyone to say what they feel; good or bad.
Just because someone doesn't like an opinion--too bad-- it's an opinion and you don't have to dis/agree.

Don't think for a moment Coralline is the only person having these thoughts--she's just the one who opening spoke in detail on it and for that I respect her for sharing her thoughts!
I don't agree with every word but I definitely understood her point & didn't view it as whining or complaining.

The SR's have been busting out at an alarming rate & many have asked if it weren't ready why was it being sold at a premium!
In that regard I have the choice to buy or not which is a very simple decision for me.

No one is attacking any of the NT team. So before anyone tells me I could buy elsewhere--save your breath.
I'm fairly certain I know how to spend my own money.

 

[NicoleNXD]

Jumps in like I usually do.............hey peeps!!!!!!!!!!

@Coralline @Feign ~ Both of you have some valid points.
To those that haven't been around as long as others, Clark has always encouraged everyone to say what they feel; good or bad.
Just because someone doesn't like an opinion--too bad-- it's an opinion and you don't have to dis/agree.

Don't think for a moment Coralline is the only person having these thoughts--she's just the one who opening spoke in detail on it and for that I respect her for sharing her thoughts!
I don't agree with every word but I definitely understood her point & didn't view it as whining or complaining.

The SR's have been busting out at an alarming rate & many have asked if it weren't ready why was it being sold at a premium!
In that regard I have the choice to buy or not which is a very simple decision for me.

No one is attacking any of the NT team. So before anyone tells me I could buy elsewhere--save your breath.
I'm fairly certain I know how to spend my own money.

As always......well said ((((((Lex)))))))

 

[ScandaLeX]

*le sigh* Gonna have to pass on this one, unless it's still up on the 5th (which I doubt). Cut deep into my budget with a kayfun/nemesis purchase right before this was launched. Enjoy the nanner puddin' NT peeps!! Take a toot for me

I'm scared to look at my bank acct. Waiting on a mod from Finland. Waiting on my Vapour Day (GP Lux) mod. Waiting on ..... waiting on ..... waiting on .....
I've got so many packages coming that I'm ready to hang out at customs to see if they'll just pass them to me.
This is why I don't do budgets. I cant stand to see myself cry.

 

[Kent Brooks]

Ugh...What the FDA is doing just makes me sick...I'm not one for shenanigans. It's a total disregard for what actually works to aid smokers in quitting veiled under the cloak of "we're looking out for your health's best interest". I could rant on about this for hours with many expletives (not enough soap in the world to wash my mouth out with) but all I'll say is that I sincerely hope and pray that whatever you've got in the works is successful in this war. It's unfortunate that things have gotten to this point. I'll also say that whatever your next move is, I'm with you guys wholeheartedly.

here's the thing though - we don't think the deeming regulations will survive unchallenged - it's absolutely critical that the wider community get out there and make the case for diversity in the marketplace. If we do not insist on a reasonable pathway for small and medium sized businesses to exist in the post-regulatory environment, they will most assuredly hand the whole SOB to BT. We expect that some concessions will be made before the final proposal is drafted. Then, the litigation will start... that could string this thing out for 2-4-6... even 10 years. If at any point in that process we manage to find a Republican house/senate majority into the White House, we will have almost assuredly escaped the wrath of big government. The only downside is that the Republicans will mostly likely insist that eLiquid be pushed through distributors (like alcohol) so that the government can levy (likely heavy) taxes on the whole thing. Honestly, I think that's the way it's going to go.

There's a few certainties...

No sales to minors... in the absence of reliable age verification software, only the most unscrupulous businesses will continue to use the internet for anything other than "You can get our liquid at these B&M locations." The bottom line is, they need to force these products into B&Ms because local, state, and federal governments intend to tax the hell out of them... they get no tax revenue on internet sales so you can bet it is going to get shut down on the quick. It will become impossible for businesses like me to get credit card process, it will likely be illegal to ship via the USPS, and everything I manufacturer will probably have to be channeled through a distributor to ensure there is a paper trail for purposes of taxation. Welcome to the new world.

 

[Kent Brooks]

So Bulgaria it is eh?

If they drop the hammer hard, I am going to freakin' Bulgaria.

 

[ScandaLeX]

As always......well said ((((((Lex)))))))

Wazzzzzzup Boo!!!! (((((((((( Nicccccccccccci ))))))))))

 

[Kent Brooks]

I am TERRIFIED if the FDA takes over things. I look at what a total mess they have made in the actual food industry. I firmly believe Monsanto is the devil! I shop at whole foods just so I know what food I'm putting into my body and where it was grown. I am the same way with my juice! I'm on the other end of the spectrum. I trust you Clark that if there's a price hike, then there's a valid reason behind it. You've been nothing but kind and forthcoming with your followers and it's a rarity that a business owner takes the time to stay in front of his people on a daily basis. I've also believed in the "you get what you pay for" theory. In my industry, sure there is competition that will always be cheaper, but you don't get the consistency in the end product. Same with your juice. And with juice this good, you deserve to make some money for yourself as well!

If the FDA takes over and someone like Philip Morris is making the juice, I'm out. Or I'll have to get Clarks phone number and go into the black market.

I can say with absolutely certainty that the vendors whom rely solely on the mail, and on the internet - will cease to exist (no matter how much juice they sell or how much they charge)

 

[Solacier]

here's the thing though - we don't think the deeming regulations will survive unchallenged - it's absolutely critical that the wider community get out there and make the case for diversity in the marketplace. If we do not insist on a reasonable pathway for small and medium sized businesses to exist in the post-regulatory environment, they will most assuredly hand the whole SOB to BT. We expect that some concessions will be made before the final proposal is drafted. Then, the litigation will start... that could string this thing out for 2-4-6... even 10 years. If at any point in that process we manage to find a Republican house/senate majority into the White House, we will have almost assuredly escaped the wrath of big government. The only downside is that the Republicans will mostly likely insist that eLiquid be pushed through distributors (like alcohol) so that the government can levy (likely heavy) taxes on the whole thing. Honestly, I think that's the way it's going to go.

There's a few certainties...

No sales to minors... in the absence of reliable age verification software, only the most unscrupulous businesses will continue to use the internet for anything other than "You can get our liquid at these B&M locations." The bottom line is, they need to force these products into B&Ms because local, state, and federal governments intend to tax the hell out of them... they get no tax revenue on internet sales so you can bet it is going to get shut down on the quick. It will become impossible for businesses like me to get credit card process, it will likely be illegal to ship via the USPS, and everything I manufacturer will probably have to be channeled through a distributor to ensure there is a paper trail for purposes of taxation. Welcome to the new world.

Disliking this new world. I'm starting to understand how this will likely play out and why... Not happy about it but I understand.


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

 

[CorallineAlgae]

If you look deep in my history - I've fought them (price increases) tooth and nail from beginning. I like the position of being a reasonably priced vendor and I believe we deliver the best "total value" in eLiquid. That said - (and here's your hint) - the vendors that exist exclusively on the Internet are in for a rude awakening (you're already seeing it in California with AB 1500). So, what is the alternative? (leaving you to guess here) Those retailers whom opt to put products on their shelves - demand margin. The distributors whom make larger production capacity and wider distribution possible for small companies like ours - demand margin. Wider distribution isn't optional - it's pretty much mandatory to continue to exist. In order to do that, the pricing structure is going to have to change. That's it, really.

I've bought quite a lot of Nicoticket e-liquid over the last few months and I consider every bottle purchased to be a good value. The new short run prices are definitely high, but if this price increase means the difference between a future without Nicoticket or a future with Nicoticket I'll gladly do what I can to help fund the effort. I have no problem paying more up front to help preserve what you've built and we all enjoy. Still, knowing what we're paying for is fundamental. Now that we understand the reason it's just a matter of joining the fight. My vape budget won't change, sadly. I'll just have to order smaller bottles and treat them like gold, and let's face it.. most of us treat them like gold already.

Suddenly my cabinet busting stockpile of Nicoticket eliquids doesn't look as large this evening. Thank you for the early warning Clark! I'll definitely be stocking up on all of my favorite flavors, even if it's just for the transition period. I just hope internet sales across state lines will still be an option after this situation shakes itself out. If distribution reaches all the way to Louisiana it would be amazing to actually buy your juice in a B&M. Until then, for some of us it may be wise to consider using ejuice conserving single-coil toppers instead of juice hogs, at least for our treasured favorites.

 

[dmska]

While I personally have pared my e-liquid vendors down to just two, primarily because I can't see most vendors making it through this, I sincerely hope for some diversity. If not for me, then for those who are trying to make the switch. I understand (I think) the price increases as I think vendors either need to increase capital or allow consumers to stock up for a rainy day.

 

[Solacier]

I'm scared to look at my bank acct. Waiting on a mod from Finland. Waiting on my Vapour Day (GP Lux) mod. Waiting on ..... waiting on ..... waiting on .....
I've got so many packages coming that I'm ready to hang out at customs to see if they'll just pass them to me.
This is why I don't do budgets. I cant stand to see myself cry.

Ha ha ha! Oh I'm sure customs wouldn't mind at all!
I realized a month or so ago that I need to budget. My last electric bill said that summer rates are now in effect so being in the Phoenix area means that I need to settle down on the impulse vape purchases or be willing to bake in my apartment. I've got plenty of tissues for all the crying I'm going to be doing... first tissue is for this SR

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

 

[fraychek]

So venders who also have a B&M will still be able to ship out of and into states that permit it? It's just the Internet only vendors who will disappear? Assuming they manage to get their products vetted. Or is the Internet problem the age verification? I buy wine online but there are states that prohibit this.

 

[Kent Brooks]

I've bought quite a lot of Nicoticket e-liquid over the last few months and I consider every bottle purchased to be a good value. The new short run prices are definitely high, but if this price increase means the difference between a future without Nicoticket or a future with Nicoticket I'll gladly do what I can to help fund the effort. I have no problem paying more up front to help preserve what you've built and we all enjoy. Still, knowing what we're paying for is fundamental. Now that we understand the reason it's just a matter of joining the fight. My vape budget won't change, sadly. I'll just have to order smaller bottles and treat them like gold, and let's face it.. most of us treat them like gold already.

Suddenly my cabinet busting stockpile of Nicoticket eliquids doesn't look as large this evening. Thank you for the early warning Clark! I'll definitely be stocking up on all of my favorite flavors, even if it's just for the transition period. I just hope internet sales across state lines will still be an option after this situation shakes itself out. If distribution reaches all the way to Louisiana it would be amazing to actually buy your juice in a B&M. Until then, for some of us it may be wise to consider using ejuice conserving single-coil toppers instead of juice hogs, at least for our treasured favorites.

We need the support now more than ever! We've got a base hit, but we need someone to drive us home. There's a method to this madness - yall gotta trust a brother a little bit. We knew when we got into this industry it was laden with change - and we're prepared to adapt - and I'll committ to keeping you all as informed as I can because I consider all of you stake-holders. Any opportunity Nicoticket has had, has, or will have is the direct result of the LOYALTY demonstrated by a core group of people. If you're reading this, chances are, you're one of those people. We're not going to "sell out" - we're going to do this deal with integrity. Yall' have to have some faith though - there's a plan, and you are ALL part of it. At this point, we consider everyone who has placed an order to be an "early adopter." I don't want to jinx myself, but I hope all of you are saying "I knew him when" in 5 years... but none of that will materialize without your continued support... and believe you me, I won't be fast to forget who hung in through the storm that awaits. The next year or two - do or die for the entire industry. We have an opportunity to make history and shape the future of vaping. Seriously - you guys are going to freak out!! But alas - right now - all I can do is put one foot in front of the other and pray I make the right decisions for all the stakeholders.

 

[Solacier]

We need the support now more than ever! We've got a base hit, but we need someone to drive us home. There's a method to this madness - yall gotta trust a brother a little bit. We knew when we got into this industry it was laden with change - and we're prepared to adapt - and I'll committ to keeping you all as informed as I can because I consider all of you stake-holders. Any opportunity Nicoticket has had, has, or will have is the direct result of the LOYALTY demonstrated by a core group of people. If you're reading this, chances are, you're one of those people. We're not going to "sell out" - we're going to do this deal with integrity. Yall' have to have some faith though - there's a plan, and you are ALL part of it. At this point, we consider everyone who has placed an order to be an "early adopter." I don't want to jinx myself, but I hope all of you are saying "I knew him when" in 5 years... but none of that will materialize without your continued support... and believe you me, I won't be fast to forget who hung in through the storm that awaits. The next year or two - do or die for the entire industry. We have an opportunity to make history and shape the future of vaping. Seriously - you guys are going to freak out!! But alas - right now - all I can do is put one foot in front of the other and pray I make the right decisions for all the stakeholders.

We trust you, Clark and are with you for the long haul. Just a wee bit nervous with a dash of frustration over how the regulations are being done. I got your back, Jack and I'm sure I'm not the only one!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

 

[Kent Brooks]

Wow. So much for not being labeled a hater after very politely voicing the same concerns many other Nicoticket fans have been asking about for a while now.














done

That's rudedog bein' rudedog. LMAO - relax