What about like silicone. Provape paints it on their chips.
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Printed DNA30 Bottom Feeder
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Very nice work. People just don't realize the amount of work that goes into a product, getting it right. You've got a hell of a nice product there hope you sell a ton of them if that's what you want to do. Keith
I'd guess the most vulnerable parts on the dna are the switches (which are irrelevant in this application) and the display. That's supposedly why "Brand P" sticks with 1970's tech LEDs for their display; they're available totally sealed.
The other thing to consider is what Turbo already mentioned; migration along the wires. I've seen coolant migrate 15 feet through a car's wiring harness. The modules that those wires were attached to were sealed up well enough, but what the manufacturer didn't recon with was liquids getting into those modules through the wiring.
I think the place I'd worry most is at near the bottom of the juice bottle, where the connections to the power up/down buttons are, and where we can see the ribbon cable coming off the board in this pic.
Right. Wood has to be milled.
yeah, I had one where I epoxied the opening around a wire pass through and the juice wicked right to the dna chip through the wiring anyway. it's amazing how oils an liquids can wick even straight up wires.... Mercedes has a particular problem on some of there cars where there's a switch on the transmission that develops a leak and if left unchecked eventually the transmission computer which is way up around cowl height and maybe 5-6 feet away in harness distance, eventually this oil will wick completely up through the harness and kill the tranny computer, requires a new harness and computer and leak fix at like almost 4k repair for what started out as a $100 leak repair from a $12 seal, also keep in mind that some guys feed there geni coils with a ss wire rope wick shows how well stranded wiring can wick
silicone is great and liquid electrical tape is also great, plasti dip should work I guess but I don't think I'd use it over the alternatives personally. there are also now some high tech clear sprays that really repel water using nano technology, something like never wet which is a 2 part clear spray like a clearcoat is also a possibility, they don't specifically recommend it for electronics but many have had success with it on electronics anyway.... there are other clear sprays too. I know it hurts to glob up such a nice clean install but honestly, from my experience without it it's only a mater of when, not if. brandon from evolved says there is already a conformal coating on the chip but I can tell you first hand it isn't effective at all when it comes to juice contact. I find the board itself to be most vulnerable, that and both ends of the ribbon cable. the display is usually the first thing to fail with any juice contact even if it's only the board that gets damp
silicone is great and liquid electrical tape is also great, plasti dip should work I guess but I don't think I'd use it over the alternatives personally. there are also now some high tech clear sprays that really repel water using nano technology, something like never wet which is a 2 part clear spray like a clearcoat is also a possibility, they don't specifically recommend it for electronics but many have had success with it on electronics anyway.... there are other clear sprays too. I know it hurts to glob up such a nice clean install but honestly, from my experience without it it's only a mater of when, not if. brandon from evolved says there is already a conformal coating on the chip but I can tell you first hand it isn't effective at all when it comes to juice contact. I find the board itself to be most vulnerable, that and both ends of the ribbon cable. the display is usually the first thing to fail with any juice contact even if it's only the board that gets damp
I'd guess the most vulnerable parts on the DNA are the switches (which are irrelevant in this application) and the display. That's supposedly why "Brand P" sticks with 1970's tech LEDs for their display; they're available totally sealed.
The other thing to consider is what Turbo already mentioned; migration along the wires. I've seen coolant migrate 15 feet through a car's wiring harness. The modules that those wires were attached to were sealed up well enough, but what the manufacturer didn't recon with was liquids getting into those modules through the wiring.
I think the place I'd worry most is at near the bottom of the juice bottle, where the connections to the power up/down buttons are, and where we can see the ribbon cable coming off the board in this pic.
I am not sure a "perfect" seal is going to be possible with V2. But anything to minimize potential damage from a small juice leak will be helpful. The Liquid Tape spray looks pretty good in that video. (the local HF has it in stock, I am gonna pick some up).
Right. Wood has to be milled.
Hmmm.. I wonder who could do that?...
@Turbo...are there any bottom feed devices out there that are completely sealed from ejuice?
the only bf device I know of with a dna is the bogger box and I know that he has had so many problems with this that I believe this was what made him go from being an upstanding member here to now being an outcast and I think the dnas have been his downfall although this is only conjecture on my part. the hanas used to have a problem with juice migration into the box and there have been many warranty issues and they re designed the whole upper seem and made some alterations internally to deal with it although I don't know the specifics there either. I've seen some futuras have issues with juice migration through the 510 too.
the signal to the display is weak and fragile and it doesn't take much to cause interference, that's why there restricted to such a short ribbon and can't use a disconnect plug for the screen too, these signals are very finicky and delicate.
the signal to the display is weak and fragile and it doesn't take much to cause interference, that's why there restricted to such a short ribbon and can't use a disconnect plug for the screen too, these signals are very finicky and delicate.
With the juice-proofing it is also worth mentioning that this can insulate the board from the natural air cooling for the various components on it. I looked into doing something like this with silicone on a 4050, but decided against it as the extra heat would probably shorten the life of the board. Is there a recommended operating temperature rating for the DNA? It might be better to leave the board alone and go after sealing up the bottom feeding section.
I like that you wrote, "with V2".
Seriously, don't let this potential issue discourage you from these amazing designs. Personally, I would buy/build a mod like this even if I was running the risk of replacing the DNA every once in a while. Put it in perspective, a DNA board costs what a couple of bottles of juice cost. Now let make an analogy: If she's really hot looking and amazing between the sheets, you might expect (and put up with) her being high maintenance in other areas.
Had no idea Bogger was in ill standings, his box mods are gorgeousness. Took a look at how he implemented the dna and wow there's gonna be a truckload of bad dna's soon. The juice will eventually seep in a 510 and seams unless its sealed and not many mods I have seen have sealed 510 connectors and good seals on enclosure.. Even the buttons can be an entry wick. whoa.. Meh you get a year out one or more its paid for itself considering no analogs and a great vape while working.. Clean up, replace, works for me as a hobby builder not as manufact..
Hope you can find a solution to most awesome mod.. Bogger, wow again, no way those mods could fail they were art, but ......
15ft thru a harness, makes sense esp. knowing about wicking cause of vaping --now I will not have my engines steam cleaned
Hope you can find a solution to most awesome mod.. Bogger, wow again, no way those mods could fail they were art, but ......
15ft thru a harness, makes sense esp. knowing about wicking cause of vaping --now I will not have my engines steam cleaned
This is a very nice prototype. I've been wondering how long it was doing to take someone to come up with a DNA30 "squonker".
I love the IDEA of bottom-feeding devices, but I'm a die-hard VW kind of guy. The main reason I haven't got a bottom-feeder is because nobody is making them with VW, and I don't care for the VV board (with no display) on the Reo Grande VV.
This is a very elegent solution to a difficult problem. Kudos on your design!
I have one question though--why did you put the 2 control buttons and the screen on the bottom of the case, instead of on the side. There seems to be room to put it right abode the motherboard in the center of the mod. And Seeing as how fragile the DNA screen is, I'm always a little worried bout long-term screen life on devices that put them on the bottom--where you'll be exposing it to all sorts of stuff when you set it down on a table. This is the main reason I haven't bought a VaporShark (which is, otherwise, a GREAT-vaping device).
Again, not busting your chops--just wondering why you made that particular design decision... ;-)
I love the IDEA of bottom-feeding devices, but I'm a die-hard VW kind of guy. The main reason I haven't got a bottom-feeder is because nobody is making them with VW, and I don't care for the VV board (with no display) on the Reo Grande VV.
This is a very elegent solution to a difficult problem. Kudos on your design!
I have one question though--why did you put the 2 control buttons and the screen on the bottom of the case, instead of on the side. There seems to be room to put it right abode the motherboard in the center of the mod. And Seeing as how fragile the DNA screen is, I'm always a little worried bout long-term screen life on devices that put them on the bottom--where you'll be exposing it to all sorts of stuff when you set it down on a table. This is the main reason I haven't bought a VaporShark (which is, otherwise, a GREAT-vaping device).
Again, not busting your chops--just wondering why you made that particular design decision... ;-)
So just to be clear, I have no interest in making a commercial mod. I am just doing this for fun. Once the design is tweaked and Shapeways can reproduce it, I'll put it out for anyone to get a print. I really only expect a couple people to have any interest in this anyway and they are probably only going to be modders who know what they are doing and like bottom feed mods. I just dont want to put out a design with printed pieces that are not workable.
I do view these devices as disposable like Rossum said. Putting aside analog costs, I think back to all those $15 Vivi Nova's I bought along with countless replacement heads and tanks that cracked, I am saving money here...even if I fry a chip or two..lol.
OK. V2 was just a proof of concept. I really just wanted to see if the skeleton concept worked. I know it needed more work and I wasn't even going to assemble it cause V3 is coming right behind it quickly. So I am all game for taking suggestions to try out on V2. (Much appreciated Turbo and Asdaq on juice proofing).
V3 has quite a bit of improvements in the design. Less parts, fully integrated assembly, redesigned shell for skeleton stability and alignment and a solid better looking base... and I believe the juice bottle compartment can be sealed after assembly. While the body needed to get reprinted, the internals assembled perfectly.
Here is a sneak peak (six internal printed parts).
When the V3 body comes back from Shapeways, I might do a beta group before the final release, just to double check, if anyone is interested.
I do view these devices as disposable like Rossum said. Putting aside analog costs, I think back to all those $15 Vivi Nova's I bought along with countless replacement heads and tanks that cracked, I am saving money here...even if I fry a chip or two..lol.
OK. V2 was just a proof of concept. I really just wanted to see if the skeleton concept worked. I know it needed more work and I wasn't even going to assemble it cause V3 is coming right behind it quickly. So I am all game for taking suggestions to try out on V2. (Much appreciated Turbo and Asdaq on juice proofing).
V3 has quite a bit of improvements in the design. Less parts, fully integrated assembly, redesigned shell for skeleton stability and alignment and a solid better looking base... and I believe the juice bottle compartment can be sealed after assembly. While the body needed to get reprinted, the internals assembled perfectly.
Here is a sneak peak (six internal printed parts).
When the V3 body comes back from Shapeways, I might do a beta group before the final release, just to double check, if anyone is interested.
They do sell a "thinner" as well! I use it to thin down the dip, and dip individual resistors for a particular application. You can get a nice thin coating.
Thanks!
No chop busting taken, Its two things, size and smooth lines. The device is only about .87" deep x 2" wide, by 3.6" tall. It may not show that well in the pictures but the skeleton is only ~9mm across on the inside, so they would need to be uber small tact switches. I also love the design/feel of Pdib's OliveR. IMO he nailed a classic look. Why mess with perfection?
But maybe another version needs to be developed next. I am not sure where else the screen could go based on its orientation in the skeleton though.
No chop busting taken,
Its two things, size and smooth lines. The device is only about .87" deep x 2" wide, by 3.6" tall. It may not show that well in the pictures but the skeleton is only ~9mm across on the inside, so they would need to be uber small tact switches. I also love the design/feel of Pdib's OliveR. IMO he nailed a classic look. Why mess with perfection? But maybe another version needs to be developed next. I am not sure where else the screen could go based on its orientation in the skeleton though.
Very cool....Asdaq mentioned earlier that heat retention might be an issue. Any experience with this?
Shouldn't be. As said provape coats their chips.
Maybe with a different material.
Honestly could probably use something like shrinkwrap.
Or seal off the juice area. Make the plastic thicker.
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Maybe with a different material.
Honestly could probably use something like shrinkwrap.
Or seal off the juice area. Make the plastic thicker.
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Silicone caulk to block chip from juice area.
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The best method of liquid protection is parolyne coating (probably not spelled right) it is very thin and does very well for thermal considerations....however it ain't cheap and you have to send products out to be applied as it's some kind of gas application method.
We have had some products coated for work and the stuff is pretty amazing....it has evolved from mill spec applications.
Beyond something like that I would be very hesitant to do much silicone, plastidip, conformal coating, etc. especially if you vape at high wattage and/or regular long vape sessions.
IMHO the best practice would be to shield the DNA from possible liquid forcing the juice to go somewhere else and out an opening, while still giving the DNA some breathing room.
We have had some products coated for work and the stuff is pretty amazing....it has evolved from mill spec applications.
Beyond something like that I would be very hesitant to do much silicone, plastidip, conformal coating, etc. especially if you vape at high wattage and/or regular long vape sessions.
IMHO the best practice would be to shield the DNA from possible liquid forcing the juice to go somewhere else and out an opening, while still giving the DNA some breathing room.
Hey hey a beta group, don't tempt me. sounds great.
I wanted to ask why the magnets are changed in v3, and it looks like they are ring magnets now with spring contacts in the middle of them- why 5 wires to the top cap? Also, looking at the dibi, it looks like two magnets protrude and two are recessed so that they function as their own locater pins. If you have ring magnets one can have a pin and the other accepts the pin for the same function, and the magnet can still carry the power.
As for the waterproofing, a DNA and a 4050 are both boosters so they must have some components in common. I believe it is the SMD resistors that fail from heat most of the time but don't quite me on that. Parts of the board should be OK to seal up liberally and actually if the screen is so fragile with juice, it could be sealed up quite thickly.
Back to the v3, I would even fill the connector area up with silicone so just the nipple for the silicone tube is exposed. This sealing might need replacing from time to time but it is easy to pick out and redo.
Where else might there be seepage?
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sounds great.I wanted to ask why the magnets are changed in v3, and it looks like they are ring magnets now with spring contacts in the middle of them- why 5 wires to the top cap? Also, looking at the dibi, it looks like two magnets protrude and two are recessed so that they function as their own locater pins. If you have ring magnets one can have a pin and the other accepts the pin for the same function, and the magnet can still carry the power.
As for the waterproofing, a DNA and a 4050 are both boosters so they must have some components in common. I believe it is the SMD resistors that fail from heat most of the time but don't quite me on that. Parts of the board should be OK to seal up liberally and actually if the screen is so fragile with juice, it could be sealed up quite thickly.
Back to the v3, I would even fill the connector area up with silicone so just the nipple for the silicone tube is exposed. This sealing might need replacing from time to time but it is easy to pick out and redo.
Where else might there be seepage?
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A couple of significant changes from V1 to V3. The top cap connector alignment went from a flush post/hole setup with magnets (like the dibi) in V1 to having the internal part on the top cap extending and sliding into the body. The skeleton now has a rail on the internal frame and a slotted guide inside the body. The overall fit for the top cap and the skeleton should be more precise/secure and also provides hassle free contact alignment . Here is a better pic showing the two features.
I went with the ring magnets so I could get the 2 extra probes into the design for the tact switch which is now in the top cap. It could have been designed with only one lower power probe. I was thinking about just soldering to the magnet, but I didnt want to loose any magnetism.
In daily use, I am not really sure where juice seepage can occur other than at the 510 hole. So sealing that up should take care of it. There could be the possibility that with aggressive squonkin you could get an internal leak from the bottle or from the tube at the pin connection, but I haven't really ever experience that. But, the juice side of the body can be now be sealed so that should help. Maybe to get a really good seal, I was thinking that after the device is assembled, to use a sealant on the top of the skeleton where the contacts are to close any remaining gaps. Perhaps just masking up the key parts and then a thin spray seal?
. Here is a better pic showing the two features.I went with the ring magnets so I could get the 2 extra probes into the design for the tact switch which is now in the top cap. It could have been designed with only one lower power probe. I was thinking about just soldering to the magnet, but I didnt want to loose any magnetism.
In daily use, I am not really sure where juice seepage can occur other than at the 510 hole. So sealing that up should take care of it. There could be the possibility that with aggressive squonkin you could get an internal leak from the bottle or from the tube at the pin connection, but I haven't really ever experience that. But, the juice side of the body can be now be sealed so that should help. Maybe to get a really good seal, I was thinking that after the device is assembled, to use a sealant on the top of the skeleton where the contacts are to close any remaining gaps. Perhaps just masking up the key parts and then a thin spray seal?
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