Proposed FDA Rules

[irwink]

Just sent CASAA some $$$ via CC. Fighting our benevolent FDA isn't going to be cheap.

 

[tj99959]

If standards don't come from the FDA, who would you like to see them come from?



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FDA for liquids (only the application process for cigarettes won't work for liquids)
Consumer Protection Agancy for devices (just like they do with baby cribs)

 

[Newgmole]

Oooh, the 'save the children targeted by flavorings' crap propaganda again. What a garbage government we have. What multitudes of idiotic Americans that suck up the propaganda and then recite it as truth.

Does anyone here still believe the propaganda we're inundated with daily begins and ends with ecigs alone?

You would be surprised...
Just another way for the government to stick their hand in your rear pocket and pull out the money from your throat.

 

[Newgmole]

It's worth pointing out that FDA regulations (or anything else similar) has no relation whatsoever to ecig safety, public safety, public health, protecting children, or anything else like that. It's all about money and nothing else.

The smoking economy is worth over $1 trillion a year and will eventually take a massive hit from ecigs. How much is just a guess, but given time (20 or 30 years perhaps) then a 60% reduction in the smoking economy is very likely.

What is the smoking economy? It's all the funds generated by smoking and all the people who depend on that money. The list is very long, and everyone in the chain has a financial interest in protecting smoking - otherwise their jobs disappear or they take big pay cuts. Everyone from State Attorneys General to 'public health' groups such as cancer orgs depends on smoking. National governments, State economies, and city budgets depend on the tax revenues to balance the books. The States are in the worst position of all as they depend on the immense MSA payments to stave off bankrupty - and those payments are already starting to slide (way ahead of the expected date these payments would react to shrinking cigarette sales caused by growing ecig sales).

All laws banning ecigs, all regulations restricting ecigs, all legislation affecting ecigs, and all voices heard speaking against ecigs are created by or dependent on the smoking economy. Public health is irrelevant, it's all about the money, has always been about the money, and will always be about the money.

Please don't be fooled into thinking that health is important - nothing is of less importance to regulators than your health. Please don't be fooled into thinking that science and evidence are important - these things are completely irrelevant to legislators. All they are concerned with is their mortgage, and the smoking economy pays that. Smoking and pharma are protected, and that's all there is to it.

You need to vote for someone who will do something about it - or just suck it up, it's what you voted for.

Well, that doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy feeling.

More like a puckering feeling.

I feel hopeless. After trying to quit 10 or 12 times I have finally done it. Now the government steps and wants to regulate.

We're screwed.

 

[Vaslovik]

You would be surprised...
Just another way for the government to stick their hand in your rear pocket and pull out the money from your throat.

The fact is that The Government is really just a front for the corporations and bankers and does their bidding like an obedient dog. The facade of The Government is needed to bend the public to the will of the corporations and bankers, lending the color of law to their agenda. This has really been the case throughout history, and people just haven't seen it. In the past it was all about wealth, then it was about political power, and now it's about much greater control of the populace, by the corporations and bankers.

 

[thezoo]

Would it be possible for a few thousand of us to individually sue the fda and hamburg personally he would crap his pants after being servec a few thousand individual subpenas to apear in court a few thousand times might straighten him out

 

[Newgmole]

The fact is that The Government is really just a front for the corporations and bankers and does their bidding like an obedient dog. The facade of The Government is needed to bend the public to the will of the corporations and bankers, lending the color of law to their agenda. This has really been the case throughout history, and people just haven't seen it. In the past it was all about wealth, then it was about political power, and now it's about much greater control of the populace, by the corporations and bankers.

I like the way you think!

 

[irwink]

You would be surprised...
Just another way for the government to stick their hand in your rear pocket and pull out the money from your throat.

I'm 60. Absolutely nothing about the US government would surprise me.

 

[irwink]

The fact is that The Government is really just a front for the corporations and bankers and does their bidding like an obedient dog. The facade of The Government is needed to bend the public to the will of the corporations and bankers, lending the color of law to their agenda. This has really been the case throughout history, and people just haven't seen it. In the past it was all about wealth, then it was about political power, and now it's about much greater control of the populace, by the corporations and bankers.

Oligarchy Oligarchy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That IS our system of government in the US.

 

[heavyaether]

i think everyone should watch this video

 

[EddardinWinter]

i think everyone should watch this video

That's pretty spot on by GG.

The FDA will destroy vaping as we know it if we permit them to.



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[Krogan]

They just want to put bogus warning labels and false health hazards associated with vaping. This way (in their minds) they think a lot of people will stop vaping and go back to cigarettes (Because they will convince people they are the same thing anyway) The government just want those tobacco taxes and nothing else. They can care less about your health as long as it puts money in their pockets. Also, when they mention about the kids using the e-cigarettes are they implying that a high percentage of those kids won't just smoke a cigarette anyway?

I kind of knew this was coming ever since they banned e-cigarettes for public use in my area

 

[Jman8]

Every liquid you enjoy....every one....must apply to be approved to be sold. Do you know how many we are guaranteed to be permitted to buy?

Zero.

Does this include 0 nic liquid?
Does this include liquid sold in an underground market?
Does this include all the liquid that kids will be using?

Does anyone reading this, anyone at all, think kids will not be vaping (nicotine) in the year 2015, or 2016, or 2017, or 2018, in 2050, or need I go on? They will be, essentially already are, subject to outright ban. 99% here agree with that ban. Now answer the question I just asked to establish a very viable point about all this going forward.

 

[EddardinWinter]

Does this include 0 nic liquid?
Does this include liquid sold in an underground market?
Does this include all the liquid that kids will be using?

Does anyone reading this, anyone at all, think kids will not be vaping (nicotine) in the year 2015, or 2016, or 2017, or 2018, in 2050, or need I go on? They will be, essentially already are, subject to outright ban. 99% here agree with that ban. Now answer the question I just asked to establish a very viable point about all this going forward.

You asked three questions, sir.

I suspect that it will include 0 mg. If you listen to how they parse the language of the regulations in the Q&A, it seems so.

What underground market is that?

I don't know what kids vape...I have no idea what you are asking here...no answer.

I think kids will vape going forward. The quality of the e-liquid the kids (and the adults) enjoy will decrease notably as a result of the FDA's involvement in the market.



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[neutrontech]

Black markets and other illegal activities aren't relevent to FDA discussions, and should not be considered viable options for vapers to continue after it has been regulated out of legal existence.

Bottom line is that with what's currently proposed, virtually no company will be able to market any form of ejuice. Saying that it doesn't matter because there's always an "underground market" is ridiculous. We shouldn't be relegated to criminals because our only choice to continue vaping is with black markets. As far as I'm concerned, black markets aren't a real alternative for most vapers. If the only place to get juice is from a black market, then we lost and the FDA, BT, and BP got what they wanted.

I really wish I would stop seeing black market as an argument that vaping will continue into the future. The fact is, if that's the only option left, then the freedom I've enjoyed vaping is lost and no black market can replace it.

When someone says vaping will be regulated out of existence, they aren't considering black markets being destroyed as well. They feel that a product only available in an underground market, has been regulated out of existence.

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[Jman8]

Black markets and other illegal activities aren't relevent to FDA discussions, and should not be considered viable options for vapers to continue after it has been regulated out of legal existence.

Disagree strongly. Black market is a very viable option if there is a desire to keep on vaping. If vaping becomes a capital offense, then I would go along with this thinking. Otherwise, as a fine type offense (misdemeanor), it is viable option. Every time I'm on US roads, people are speeding, or engaged in "illegal activity." I'm fairly certain that every driver I know will not change how they drive, even if they knew someone that just got busted for speeding.

Bottom line is that with what's currently proposed, virtually no company will be able to market any form of ejuice. Saying that it doesn't matter because there's always an "underground market" is ridiculous. We shouldn't be relegated to criminals because our only choice to continue vaping is with black markets. As far as I'm concerned, black markets aren't a real alternative for most vapers. If the only place to get juice is from a black market, then we lost and the FDA, BT, and BP got what they wanted.

Then you are putting forth a position focused only on short term, and essentially saying you will give up. If this scenario plays out, I can rather easily see more vapers in that market than current amount of vapers today. And how that market plays out over months and years will have a whole lot of people second guessing the decision to 'regulate out of legal existence.' If something bad happens, it'll be spun a few ways, but one of those would be that 'this wouldn't have happened if this industry was controlled.' If something good happens (i.e. revenue sores), then many in government will be hearing from people who say this ought to be legal, and taxed, to benefit government funding.

I really wish I would stop seeing black market as an argument that vaping will continue into the future. The fact is, if that's the only option left, then the freedom I've enjoyed vaping is lost and no black market can replace it.

I'll stop bringing up black market within 14 days after 'latest post' that mentions 'regulating out of existence' or 'prohibition.' Deal?

When someone says vaping will be regulated out of existence, they aren't considering black markets being destroyed as well. They feel that a product only available in an underground market, has been regulated out of existence.

Then they are misspeaking. I reckon a lot of these same people, with these same feelings, and same urge to vape, will go to the black market to get what they desire.

 

[neutrontech]

Disagree strongly. Black market is a very viable option if there is a desire to keep on vaping. If vaping becomes a capital offense, then I would go along with this thinking. Otherwise, as a fine type offense (misdemeanor), it is viable option. Every time I'm on US roads, people are speeding, or engaged in "illegal activity." I'm fairly certain that every driver I know will not change how they drive, even if they knew someone that just got busted for speeding.



Then you are putting forth a position focused only on short term, and essentially saying you will give up. If this scenario plays out, I can rather easily see more vapers in that market than current amount of vapers today. And how that market plays out over months and years will have a whole lot of people second guessing the decision to 'regulate out of legal existence.' If something bad happens, it'll be spun a few ways, but one of those would be that 'this wouldn't have happened if this industry was controlled.' If something good happens (i.e. revenue sores), then many in government will be hearing from people who say this ought to be legal, and taxed, to benefit government funding.



I'll stop bringing up black market within 14 days after 'latest post' that mentions 'regulating out of existence' or 'prohibition.' Deal?



Then they are misspeaking. I reckon a lot of these same people, with these same feelings, and same urge to vape, will go to the black market to get what they desire.

Ok

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