Misinformation and proposed FDA ban

[Robino1]

Monday CASAA gets to have their sit down with the FDA. I'm under the impression that Zeller had/has sit downs with all the players. I thought I read that AEMSA also had a sit down with Zeller. I can't see anyone from AEMSA suggesting getting rid of Internet sales. Their members do Internet sales.

I can't wait to hear what happens in that meeting. I'm sure it will be talked about at the next CASAA meeting. I'm definitely going to register for that meeting as soon as I get the email. They have limited spots for people.

Ugh. This waiting is killing me. Tensions and panic just keep getting more pronounced. At least let us know so we can figure out what we have to fight!

 

[kristin]

This. What US "ecig companies" are big enough to sit at a table with the FDA?

njoy, Fin, blu, Vapor Corp, Smokestik, V2, Spire and Logic, to name a few, are all sold nationally in stores (the only one in this list owned by a tobacco company is blu and they still would have been big enough to meet with the FDA even if Lorillard hadn't bought them out.)

Maybe the FTC will chime in
A lot of the business is internet based....killing the competition and using existing tobacco distribution channels for e-cigs may not be considered "fair play".

Yet the FSPTCA does give the FDA the power to regulate tobacco sales to "protect the children." It may not be able to outright ban online sales, but it could make it extremely complicated and expensive to do so:
‘‘REMOTE SALES.—
‘‘(A) IN GENERAL.—The Secretary shall—
‘‘(i) within 18 months after the date of enactment
of the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control
Act, promulgate regulations regarding the sale and
distribution of tobacco products that occur through
means other than a direct, face-to-face exchange
between a retailer and a consumer in order to prevent
the sale and distribution of tobacco products to individuals who have not attained the minimum age established by applicable law for the purchase of such products, including requirements for age verification; and
‘‘(ii) within 2 years after such date of enactment,
issue regulations to address the promotion and marketing of tobacco products that are sold or distributed through means other than a direct, face-to-face exchange between a retailer and a consumer in order to protect individuals who have not attained the minimum age established by applicable law for the purchase of such products."

Monday CASAA gets to have their sit down with the FDA. I'm under the impression that Zeller had/has sit downs with all the players. I thought I read that AEMSA also had a sit down with Zeller. I can't see anyone from AEMSA suggesting getting rid of Internet sales. Their members do Internet sales.

I can't wait to hear what happens in that meeting. I'm sure it will be talked about at the next CASAA meeting. I'm definitely going to register for that meeting as soon as I get the email. They have limited spots for people.

Ugh. This waiting is killing me. Tensions and panic just keep getting more pronounced. At least let us know so we can figure out what we have to fight!

We won't have much to report, Robin. It's, as the name "listening session" suggests, an opportunity for CASAA to express its opinions and recommendations to the FDA, while they just listen. The panel may ask us some questions, but it is extremely unlikely that they will tell us anything about the proposed regulations.

 

[SissySpike]

Thank you for the info Kristin its much appreciated!

 

[stevegmu]

Umm my take on which ecig companies brought it up? BT and their affiliates. Think Blu and etc... Yeah, those would be the ecig companies that would love to see Internet sales go away.

I used BLU e-cigs on and off for about 2 years. Never bought a single BLU product at a B&M store. While they do sell their products everywhere, I imagine the majority of BLU sales are done through their website. Pretty sure they wouldn't fight to lose half of their business.

 

[dr g]

Njoy, Fin, blu, Vapor Corp, Smokestik, V2, Spire and Logic, to name a few, are all sold nationally in stores (the only one in this list owned by a tobacco company is blu and they still would have been big enough to meet with the FDA even if Lorillard hadn't bought them out.)

In other words all the cig-a-stick rebranders? Yeah they'd want to kill online competition too. Forgive me if I think any company that would even consider an online sales ban does not have the ecig consumer in mind.

 

[SissySpike]

In other words all the cig-a-stick rebranders? Yeah they'd want to kill online competition too. Forgive me if I think any company that would even consider an online sales ban does not have the ecig consumer in mind.

AAAAAGGGRRRRREEEEEEDDDDDDDD! I personally chose to not give BT one more penny of mine and if vaping goes the way of them and vaping products become to expensive or impossible to find I will just quit. I will also encourage my ledgislators to tax and regulate tobacco even more so than it is now just for spite!

 

[BigBen2k]

I've been wondering about something...

The only issues left for the FDA to regulate (beyond underage sale) is nic levels absorbed that may be higher than any other NRT.

So why are Njoy's loaded with 45 mg/mL juice? Isn't that a push to demonstrate that e-cigs do in fact deliver more nicotine than any other NRT? That, is something that would get the FDA's attention, no?

 

[SissySpike]

I've been wondering about something...

The only issues left for the FDA to regulate (beyond underage sale) is nic levels absorbed that may be higher than any other NRT.

So why are Njoy's loaded with 45 mg/mL juice? Isn't that a push to demonstrate that e-cigs do in fact deliver more nicotine than any other NRT? That, is something that would get the FDA's attention, no?

Yup unfortunately lots of regulations form from just plane and simple bad judgment of manufacturers

 

[BigBen2k]

Yup unfortunately lots of regulations form from just plane and simple bad judgment of manufacturers

Yes, except that the Njoy, is a product from a Big Tobacco company. If they wanted for something to be regulated, this would be a great demonstration, no?

EDIT: no evidence linking Njoy to big tobacco; Njoy is privately owned, so no info available.

 

[Penn]

Yes, except that the Njoy, is a product from a Big Tobacco company. If they wanted for something to be regulated, this would be a great demonstration, no?

Really? Which big tobacco company owns Njoy?

 

[WarHawk-AVG]

Really? Which big tobacco company owns Njoy?

Investigating...until I find out...
http://www.csnews.com/top-story-tobacco-njoy_electronic_cigarettes_receives_$20m_investment-60838.html

Look like the company that own Marlboro might be going after them...Blu is owned by Lorilard Inc

The market for e-cigs -- nicotine-infused, battery-heated tubes that create vapor instead of smoke -- may rise to $1 billion in the next three years from $300 million in 2012, said Bonnie Herzog, an analyst at Wells Fargo & Co. Altria Group Inc. (MO), the maker of Marlboro cigarettes, may buy NJOY or another company, following the lead of rival Lorillard Inc. (LO), which acquired Blu Ecigs in April for $135 million, Herzog said.

E-Cigarette Maker NJOY Seen as Takeover Target Amid Innovation - Bloomberg

 

[BigBen2k]

I can't find it... Maybe I'm wrong?

Still looking.

Edit: nothing. Private info. They're no friends of ours though; they've been pushing ecigs to be regulated as medical devices in the UK:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-godshall-uk-mhra-e-cigarette-regulation.html

 

[skoony]

lets not forget are friends.(many of whom demonize us vapors,and smokers)
the health freaks.
damn vitamin takers.
do you realize if you have cancer the evil vitamins will make your cancer
grow beyound all control.
i .... you not.this is the latest take on the national news.
the fda needs to regulate vitamins just like alchahol and tobacco.good grief.
my problem is i cant find a decent vitamin forum so we can cross discuss this
and possibly join forces against this willy nilly kill bill mentallity.
regards
mike

 

[Penn]

Investigating...until I find out...
http://www.csnews.com/top-story-tobacco-njoy_electronic_cigarettes_receives_$20m_investment-60838.html

Look like the company that own Marlboro might be going after them...Blu is owned by Lorilard Inc

E-Cigarette Maker NJOY Seen as Takeover Target Amid Innovation - Bloomberg

December of 2012? Since then Altria has reached test market on their own brand. Njoy has found private investors.

I'm aware Njoy has reached a size that they may engage of the mantra "Use the free market to gain a large foothold then push to end free market through regulations to eliminate new competition" (as stated above) but they are NOT in the same league as BT.

But then again, I question if BT is the STILL the evil beast many here paint them as.

 

[Myrany]

under the guise of research helps I stumbled on this survey
NJOY Electronic cigarette NJOY SURVEY
It is being done at Penn State and the questions are pretty well done

I think it is important to get the word to the researchers that cigalikes wont do it for most of us and this is one way

 

[stevegmu]

.

But then again, I question if BT is the STILL the evil beast many here paint them as.

BLU certainly isn't. Not only have most of started on BLU, they are actively promoting vaping through media campaigns and by supporting pro-vaping legislation, like in Ohio.

Anti-smoking advocates say that below the surface of House Bill 144 is a tobacco-industry-crafted “Trojan horse” designed to ensure that the emerging electronic-cigarette market and other alternative nicotine products remain taxed at a lower rate than traditional cigarettes and stay outside the state’s indoor smoking ban.

“What they’re trying to do is carve out a new definition that will muddy the waters for many other tobacco products now, and new and emerging products that we don’t know about yet,” Stephens said.

The bill was brought to Rep. Stephanie Kunze, R-Hilliard, by Lorillard Tobacco Co., the nation’s third-largest cigarette manufacturer, which also purchased e-cigarette company Blu in July 2012. Ohio’s current tobacco laws do not cover e-cigarettes.

“We set about closing this loophole in Ohio and other states as Lorillard strongly believes that electronic cigarettes are for adult recreational use only,” Kurt Leib, Midwest representative for the company, told lawmakers in May.

E-cig bill called a


The bill would essentially create a new classification for e-nic, excepting it from tobacco laws and taxes in the state. On a national level, such a bill would be a game-changer.

Oddly, I haven't seen any call-to-action threads calling for support of the bill...

 

[Penn]

BLU certainly isn't. Not only have most of started on BLU, they are actively promoting vaping through media campaigns and by supporting pro-vaping legislation, like in Ohio.



E-cig bill called a


The bill would essentially create a new classification for e-nic, excepting it from tobacco laws and taxes in the state. On a national level, such a bill would be a game-changer.

Oddly, I haven't seen any call-to-action threads calling for support of the bill...

Create a thread and/or let Kristin know?

 

[stevegmu]

Create a thread and/or let Kristin know?

It is supported by big bad tobacco. Wouldn't be PC here.

 

[SissySpike]

It is supported by big bad tobacco. Wouldn't be PC here.

Why do people not trust BT is it because they just woke up one day and said hmmmm guess I wont trust BT from now on.

BT has done lots and lots of shady things over the years and still are. I can only speak for me but I dont want them to be involved I see nothing but trouble coming from them.

They had their chance and they prove to be just as greedy and manipulative as always. What about the support they raised to Tax ecigs same as tobacco in some states. They play both sides of the fence

 

[ScottM]

All I know is this:

Six months ago, I was diagnosed with cancer. It had nothing to do with smoking. I have smoked for well over forty years, and I am fifty. (Do some quick math on that one)

Four months ago, I smoked my last cigarette as I walked into the hospital for surgery.

On the first day home from the hospital, I bought a Blu to take the edge off. It helped. It helped a lot. Within a week, I had an Ego Twist, a Stardust, and some juice. I haven't smoked since.

In the last few months: cancer, surgery for cancer, back to work in a HIGH STRESS job, seems like sleep walking from the BP meds, travel 100% during week, work about 85 to 100 hours/week but am salary, have a mom needing care on weekends with extreme memory loss in an aging house, a wife with aggressive RA, and haven't smoked. Vaping may have saved a life, and not just my own.

I have changed my diet, and all that mess, and now they want to jack with my vaping. They, the government FDA and double talking BT, can all take a hike. I don't care if I can or can't vape at Starbuck's, but just let me have my Smurfberry and Cinnamon Caramel Apple in peace. Somewhere. Oh, they can cram the tax, too.