Propylene Glycol origins?

Status
Not open for further replies.

stevegmu

Moved On
ECF Veteran
May 10, 2013
11,630
12,348
6992 kilometers from home...
FACT: PG is a antibacterial/antiviral (study previously linked, this is just a well known fact)
FACT: Nicotine reduces stress and provides relief for a variety of neurological issues, but without any known side affects (unlike the pharma drugs that try to do the same)
FACT: There is no credible study providing evidence of any substantial harm from vaping. That is a A FACT.

The library here is full of additional FACTS supporting the conclusion that there are no known adverse consequences to vaping.

You are demanding some FACT that proves a negative- that there will never be any adverse consequences found. That is not a fact, that is a religion and philosophy.

It is also a fact that there are few long term studies of most of the potential risks in modern life. But it is a A FACT that vaping is held to a much higher standard than those other risks. That is the power of ANTZ propaganda. I choose not to carry their water for them.

PG is also an ingredient in agar. Know what that is?
Nicotine elevates blood pressure- whether smoked or vaped. Probably not so healthy for obese vapers who already have pre-existing conditions.
You may need to read through the forum. Daily there are posts about those concerned with health issues relating to vaping...
Vaping is relatively new, so there are no long term studies. I didn't get lung cancer or COPD and I smoked 20 years. Does that mean smoking is safe?
 

bluecat

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Jun 22, 2012
3,489
3,658
Cincy
Only one of twenty will have lung cancer if they were not smoking. When smoking all 20 have it.


I would love to see how that study was set up. Since if you smoke you have lung cancer if you don;t smoke you do not. Not sure how one could take back all the smoking and say see. you would not have had lung cancer.
 

stevegmu

Moved On
ECF Veteran
May 10, 2013
11,630
12,348
6992 kilometers from home...
But on the good side of things the people responsible over there get prison or death over here they get a bonus.

This is true and a new batch carried on. I saw an article recently about what was found to be in food sold in China. Apparently plastic is cheaper than rice. Wonder what's cheaper than PG, VG, nicotine or flavorings...
 
Last edited:

bluecat

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Jun 22, 2012
3,489
3,658
Cincy
I wouldn't trust propaganda put about by Chinese companies and certainly wouldn't inhale anything they made...Sure it is relevant. They killed many, many pets, not due to negligence, but standard business practices...

I did. I bought their 100ml bottle of some eliquid for 13 bucks. I am still here typing. To be honest it tasted like crap.
 

Robert Cromwell

Moved On
ECF Veteran
Feb 16, 2015
14,009
65,472
elsewhere
Pg was discovered in the 20's
Many claim the person or agency is unknown at this point.

Some sources point toG erman hydraulic engineer Gotthilf Hagen.

Even if we didnt vape. The amount of pg and vg you are exposed to on a daily basis may actually surprise you. From food to medicine to health care products pg has been part of your life since birth.


I will have to wake up with a lung removed before you can make me believe it is harmful, in the 30+ years of smoking 2pad or more of reds, I cannot ever remember breathing or feeling this good.
Ohh no doubt that at least for the short term it is far less harmful than smoking.
the long term effects remains to be seen.
 

AXIOM_1

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
  • Jul 6, 2015
    4,801
    12,734
    Pennsylvania, USA
    You are demanding some FACT that proves a negative- that there will never be any adverse consequences found. That is not a fact, that is a religion and philosophy.

    First off VNeil, yes I am fully aware of the stated facts......... But you are forgetting all about the main theme of my prior post...... I was not disputing any facts, merely adding a few facts, like I am about to do again ....... The fact of the matter is that just because something is proven to be not harmful in the SHORT term does not mean it is not harmful in the LONG term especially if people overdo it and at a chronic pace.

    How many times do all of us hear about medications that were developed by bright people and studied by bright people for at least 15 years and thought to be totally safe if taken as directed only to find out later that those "safe" medications cause lots of death and injury that did not show up until used for some time? It's real simple, just because they study the heck out of something and assume that it is harmless does not in fact mean that turns out to be the case.

    Common sense is also a (fact) component of human reasoning, but unfortunately lots of the scientifically minded and analytical people (myself) often seem void or lacking in this area. I have struggled for many years to gain in common sense and this is probably one reason why I value it so highly...... I would trade all of my knowledge of electronics, engineering, and computer programming languages that I have acquired in various colleges, any day of the week for some good ole fashioned common sense (which I sadly lack, ask my wife lol). My point is that using common sense and anecdotal comparisons, it is not difficult to conclude that inhaling mass amounts of PG/VG is none too wise of a thing to be doing (compared to not doing it)........ I do it because I am just plain weird and have an addictive personality. Why the rest of you folks do it is your business. It seems that some of the folks on this thread are using common sense to conclude that LONG TERMED usage may not be none too swift on the body. Our lungs are made to breath in oxygen and through the process of osmosis transfer that oxygen to the blood (fact). Notice that I did not state that our lungs are made to breath in PG/VG mist.

    Edit: Sorry for the delay. I had to make a trip up to my Mother-in-law's house arrrgh. Let's see where I was at..... Oh yes, common sense... Well, that is another subject all in it's own but let's just say that I think it is an important aspect in all human endeavors (including vaping) along with moderation.

    Once again folks, I am NOT on the side of any of the "opinions" here in regards to LONG TERM usage of PG, or any other component. I know what the facts are that VNeil has pointed out. But I am also fully aware that often scientists claim that something is safe only to find out after many lawsuits and years later that it was very harmful.

    So, I am not on the side of those who think it "may" be harmful and I am not on the side of those who assume that it is not harmful. However, I do tend to lean towards the side of caution when it comes to sticking things into portions of my body where it doesn't belong. I did that for almost 40 years smoking but yet I still did it. Now that's what I call weird..... Of course the technical classification would be "addictive personality".

    I am also aware that there are certain beneficial components to vaping such as anti viral properties of PG and the like.... But, Like I said before, long termed usage and too much of most anything can be a bad thing instead of a good thing and this includes anti viral substances.

    Now, obviously and through the use of common sense (rare for me) I am "assuming" that vaping is healthier than tobacco or I would not be doing it. Even though the current facts suggest that it is fairly safe, I have heard all of this before with other substances and things were discovered later on to be totally different. And by the way VNeil, you seem to have a mania about ANTZ (no offense intended)........... Let me just say that I never even heard of e-cigs until I discovered them and started vaping them so I don't see how you would think that I could be brainwashed by ANTZ. Like yourself, and as we have discussed before, I hate big brother, big pharma, and BT just as much as you do.
     

    VNeil

    Ultra Member
    ECF Veteran
    Verified Member
    Jun 30, 2014
    2,726
    6,866
    Ocean City, MD
    PG is also an ingredient in agar. Know what that is?
    Nicotine elevates blood pressure- whether smoked or vaped. Probably not so healthy for obese vapers who already have pre-existing conditions.
    You may need to read through the forum. Daily there are posts about those concerned with health issues relating to vaping...
    Vaping is relatively new, so there are no long term studies. I didn't get lung cancer or COPD and I smoked 20 years. Does that mean smoking is safe?
    Of course they are concerned; they see the same FUD repeated endlessly, even here.

    So we are going to engage in an endless circular argument, where I argue known facts and you repeat your FUD over and over? Just thrilling the ANTZ propagandists as they see endless reams of their FUD repeated endlessly even here?

    I won't carry their water, I'm out of this.
     

    VNeil

    Ultra Member
    ECF Veteran
    Verified Member
    Jun 30, 2014
    2,726
    6,866
    Ocean City, MD
    First off VNeil, yes I am fully aware of the stated facts......... But you are forgetting all about the main theme of my prior post...... I was not disputing any facts, merely adding a few facts, like I am about to do again ....... The fact of the matter is that just because something is proven to be not harmful in the SHORT term does not mean it is not harmful in the LONG term especially if people overdo it and at a chronic pace.

    How many times do all of us hear about medications that were developed by bright people and studied by bright people for at least 15 years and thought to be totally safe if taken as directed only to find out later that those "safe" medications cause lots of death and injury that did not show up until used for some time? It's real simple, just because they study the heck out of something and assume that it is harmless does not in fact mean that turns out to be the case.

    Common sense is also a (fact) component of human reasoning, but unfortunately lots of the scientifically minded and analytical people (myself) often seem void or lacking in this area. I have struggled for many years to gain in common sense and this is probably one reason why I value it so highly...... I would trade all of my knowledge of electronics, engineering, and computer programming languages that I have acquired in various colleges, any day of the week for some good ole fashioned common sense (which I sadly lack, ask my wife lol). My point is that using common sense and anecdotal comparisons, it is not difficult to conclude that inhaling mass amounts of PG/VG is none too wise of a thing to be doing (compared to not doing it)........ I do it because I am just plain weird and have an addictive personality. Why the rest of you folks do it is your business. It seems that some of the folks on this thread are using common sense to conclude that LONG TERMED usage may not be none too swift on the body. Our lungs are made to breath in oxygen and through the process of osmosis transfer that oxygen to the blood (fact). Notice that I did not state that our lungs are made to breath in PG/VG mist.

    Edit: Sorry for the delay. I had to make a trip up to my Mother-in-law's house arrrgh. Let's see where I was at..... Oh yes, common sense... Well, that is another subject all in it's own but let's just say that I think it is an important aspect in all human endeavors (including vaping) along with moderation.

    Once again folks, I am NOT on the side of any of the "opinions" here in regards to LONG TERM usage of PG, or any other component. I know what the facts are that VNeil has pointed out. But I am also fully aware that often scientists claim that something is safe only to find out after many lawsuits and years later that it was very harmful.

    So, I am not on the side of those who think it "may" be harmful and I am not on the side of those who assume that it is not harmful. However, I do tend to lean towards the side of caution when it comes to sticking things into portions of my body where it doesn't belong. I did that for almost 40 years smoking but yet I still did it. Now that's what I call weird..... Of course the technical classification would be "addictive personality".

    I am also aware that there are certain beneficial components to vaping such as anti viral properties of PG and the like.... But, Like I said before, long termed usage and too much of most anything can be a bad thing instead of a good thing and this includes anti viral substances.

    Now, obviously and through the use of common sense (rare for me) I am "assuming" that vaping is healthier than tobacco or I would not be doing it. Even though the current facts suggest that it is fairly safe, I have heard all of this before with other substances and things were discovered later on to be totally different. And by the way VNeil, you seem to have a mania about ANTZ (no offense intended)........... Let me just say that I never even heard of e-cigs until I discovered them and started vaping them so I don't see how you would think that I could be brainwashed by ANTZ. Like yourself, and as we have discussed before, I hate big brother, big pharma, and BT just as much as you do.
    Axiom, you are doing what those few others are doing here... repeating endlessly the FUD of "we just don't know enough". And if you repeat it often enough, as you and a few others do here, every chance you get, people start believing it.

    That is the power of propaganda.
     

    stevegmu

    Moved On
    ECF Veteran
    May 10, 2013
    11,630
    12,348
    6992 kilometers from home...
    Of course they are concerned; they see the same FUD repeated endlessly, even here.

    So we are going to engage in an endless circular argument, where I argue known facts and you repeat your FUD over and over? Just thrilling the ANTZ propagandists as they see endless reams of their FUD repeated endlessly even here?

    I won't carry their water, I'm out of this.

    'Facts' can be twisted, misused, and flat out altered to fit the agenda of activists...
     

    stevegmu

    Moved On
    ECF Veteran
    May 10, 2013
    11,630
    12,348
    6992 kilometers from home...
    Except none of the facts I've raised have been questioned or disputed WITH FACTS OR EVIDENCE. You just throw out the "we just don't know" card.

    Vaping is an unknown. Just because ingredients have been used in other ways doesn't mean they are safe to heat and inhale all day, day after day. I see thread after thread of vapers suffering from ailments they attribute to vaping. There are no long term, peer reviewed vape specific studies; thus the unknown...
     

    Robert Cromwell

    Moved On
    ECF Veteran
    Feb 16, 2015
    14,009
    65,472
    elsewhere
    The sheer volume of the ingredients that many ingest from vaping has to raise some questions.
    As opposed to how much of the ingredients they get thru regular life. ie inhalers, cough medicines flavorings in their food etc...
    Too much of anything is bad for ya. Too much oxygen or water will kill ya.

    an inhaler may have a 2-3 of ML of PG max in it and will last you a month? Many vape that amount of PG in 1 hour.

    I had to chuckle over the sterile rats from ingesting PG....
     

    Alien Traveler

    Vaping Master
    ECF Veteran
    Jul 3, 2014
    4,402
    5,789
    United States
    Axiom, you are doing what those few others are doing here... repeating endlessly the FUD of "we just don't know enough". And if you repeat it often enough, as you and a few others do here, every chance you get, people start believing it.

    That is the power of propaganda.
    But what about your propaganda?
    You know, we always see propaganda from both sides.
     

    Robert Cromwell

    Moved On
    ECF Veteran
    Feb 16, 2015
    14,009
    65,472
    elsewhere
    Facts? what facts? There are virtually NO facts concerning long term vaping effects on humans either from the PG/VG nor from the flavorings used.

    The few facts that exist are from other countries and go back maybe 10 years at most and involve studies with totally different vaping than we have now. Cigalikes and tobacco flavored vape juice pretty much...
    5-7 watt vaping in a cigalike vs 150 watt vaping in a dripper or sub tank = no real comparison. Kinda like being hit with a Tonka truck vs a real dump truck.

    the high wattage vaping may I say be ok but anyone claiming to know the long term effects of it is delusional.
     

    crxess

    Grumpy Ole Man
    ECF Veteran
    Verified Member
    Sep 20, 2012
    24,438
    46,123
    70
    Williamsport Md
    Pretty sure the 1000's of pets didn't die from just 1 spoon of food, either...

    Some times you are almost comical.
    I notice you almost always release any a US company involved in searching for the cheapest supply without due diligence and place blame squarely on those meeting supply request.
    I've Been in a us plant processing Carouses for Pet food supply. The dirt road leading was soaked in Blood and the stench was horrid. I was delivering a load of Dirt for covering.
    My first and last trip there - I refused to make further deliveries.

    Our own business leaders could care less about pets - until they get caught.

    Again - PG has nothing to do with Dog Food.

    again - almost comical.

    5-7 watt vaping in a cigalike vs 150 watt vaping in a dripper or sub tank = no real comparison.
    Someone here seems to be comparing neighbor hood driving and Drag Racing while forgetting normal hwy. speeds.

    I'd estimate the average vapors are in a 7.5w to 30w range.
     
    Last edited:
    • Like
    Reactions: bluecat
    Status
    Not open for further replies.

    Users who are viewing this thread