Propylene Glycol origins?

[Robert Cromwell]

I also notice no comments about the humans that died from tainted drug materials and such from China.
Pets are worth more than humans I suppose.
Kinda hard to take some seriously.

 

[stevegmu]

Some times you are almost comical.
I notice you almost always release any a US company involved in searching for the cheapest supply without due diligence and place blame squarely on those meeting supply request.
I've Been in a us plant processing Carouses for Pet food supply. The dirt road leading was soaked in Blood and the stench was horrid. I was delivering a load of Dirt for covering.
My first and last trip there - I refused to make further deliveries.

Our own business leaders could care less about pets - until they get caught.

Again - PG has nothing to do with Dog Food.

again - almost comical.

These were US companies who had their pet food made in China...
My cat only eats buffalo, chicken, rice, avocado and vitamins- sometimes a Chipotle chicken burrito on special occasions. Some of us are more selective than others. I won't eat produce from California and am as selective about where I buy meats, as I am with what I inhale...My guess is those who don't care probably drink a liter of soda a day and eat fast food regularly. Some of us quit smoking as part of a healthy living program, which involves reducing risk, like not inhaling certain things...

 

[Robert Cromwell]

These were US companies who had their pet food made in China...
My cat only eats buffalo, chicken, rice, avocado and vitamins- sometimes a Chipotle chicken burrito on special occasions. Some of us are more selective than others. I won't eat produce from California and am as selective about where I buy meats, as I am with what I inhale...My guess is those who don't care probably drink a liter of soda a day and eat fast food regularly. Some of us quit smoking as part of a healthy living program, which involves reducing risk, like not inhaling certain things...

Yep and I respect those who did quit for health reasons, which are most vapers.
Which is why I take the stance that all juice manufacturers should list the ingredients in their ejuice. For those who are concerned about possible/probable health complications from some ingredients. For myself I would like to see artificial sweeteners listed since I have bad reactions to them and why I buy virtually no ejuice and DIY my juice.
I almost gave up on vaping because of artificial ingredients impacting me in a bad way. If not for DIY I would still be smoking.
And any manufacturer that lies to me about their juice contents will never get any of my business. I rate them no better than the Chinese that were slipping melamine in the pet food ingredients or toothpaste.

 

[crxess]

These were US companies who had their pet food made in China...
My cat only eats buffalo, chicken, rice, avocado and vitamins- sometimes a Chipotle chicken burrito on special occasions. Some of us are more selective than others. I won't eat produce from California and am as selective about where I buy meats, as I am with what I inhale...My guess is those who don't care probably drink a liter of soda a day and eat fast food regularly. Some of us quit smoking as part of a healthy living program, which involves reducing risk, like not inhaling certain things...

Finally!
I got more than a one liner out of you and you actually attempted to provide a compelling personal view.

Thank you
I have no disagreement with your preferences in this light.

As to my Link to Dekang - that was a timeline indicator. However I personally do not believe when establishing the company their preset goal was to to screw America. In fact their products came to these shores long after they were established. Nor do I believe they would still be as strong in the market if their product was found to be tainted.
Companies are not countries and as you know(your company) some Can hold to higher standards than the norm.
Boge is also China Based and considered a good product, though they went through a rough patch. just saying

 

[Thrasher]

This is true. Gotthilf, or Hilfy as he was know to his friends, was working on the next generation of hydraulically adjustable propellers for Germany's airplanes. One day, when he accidently mis-adjusted the angle of attack too leanly on the prop on one if his planes which resulted in terrible flight conditions, he flew through a cloud storm in Bavaria and managed to land before crashing. He discovered that the prop was covered in a thin, sticky liquid that when dripped on the exhaust and steamed tasted great and was much less disgusting than his Luftwaffe cigarettes. He named it Propylene (Prop Lean ) Glycol (Angel Tears) He abandoned his prop research and set up large propeller farms in the Bavarian Alps to harvest the delicious liquid (which to this day is where the best PG comes from). Unfortunately, it would be another 80 years before another inventor could figure out how to effectively vaporize the liquid without having to drip it on a hot muffler. In the mean time, Hilfy discovered a lot of other uses for it including keeping his planes ice free, keeping his colon free flowing, frozen custard and as a personal lubricant when the missus just couldn't get her mojo rising. Much is owed to Gotthilf Hagen but he will forever remain one of histories unsung heros.

Nice, ran across the name a few times, never looked into it.

 

[Bunnykiller]

it comes from the propoleenus glycollus plant

 

[Robert Cromwell]

it comes from the propoleenus glycollus plant

That makes it organic and healthy.

 

[bluecat]

Pretty sure the 1000's of pets didn't die from just 1 spoon of food, either...

I doubt it either. Pretty sure some reality should be involved. Moderation is key in anything in life.

So how any spoonfuls would it take?

By the way life expectancy in the US is 79. In China it is 74. A lot? A little? Depends on one's views.

Agree with cxress.

 

[jpargana]

yep and we thought that smoking was healthy for ya in 1942.

Let's not forget that behind that "belief" was a powerful, lobbying industry.

The same lobbyists that are today fighting the e-cigarette, along with their Pharma friends - another powerful, lobbying industry.

Just as we have so much medical disinformation about the e-cig today, I have to wonder if that "belief" in the 40's had not it's origins in the same kind of misinformation put forward by all-mighty BT.

On the other hand, there is no powerful, unified "Big E-Cig" industry to put forward all those positive and favourable studies I have been reading since 2009.

How many favourable studies have you seen on the media lately? And yet, those exist. They are there, out there. But we have to *find* them.
All we have in the media are either biased "studies" (The FDA nitrosamines study, for example), or favourable studies that have beed distorted to present the exception as the rule (The "formaldheyde studies", for example).

 

[AXIOM_1]

How many favourable studies have you seen on the media lately? And yet, those exist. They are there, out there. But we have to *find* them.
All we have in the media are either biased "studies" (The FDA nitrosamines study, for example), or favourable studies that have beed distorted to present the exception as the rule (The "formaldheyde studies", for example).

Great points. Yep. it's not too difficult to see who is getting all the media attention. However, I still remain "on the fence" concerning the healthy/bad debate of vaping. It's not that I don't trust the current uncovered facts, but rather additional facts and problems often arise in the future. There is no question that the "monied powers that be" are propagating negative hype about vaping. That's always the way it is when humans and money are involved. The individuals with the money will do anything they can (corrupt or not) in order to keep gaining in money and power. Some of those folks are about as evil and corrupt as most folks can't imagine.

But, with that being said, a person can go overboard and start viewing anything/everything concerning vaping as propaganda as this of course would not be true. There is not a boogie man around every corner. If a person (such as yourself and myself) know about all of the corruption and paid off media sources etc.... then armed with that knowledge we simply have to keep on our toes and filter things we read/hear though our mental filter in order to determine the likelihood of it being BS or not........ It is the poor folks who don't even know about govt and media corruption that are the poor souls that will fall for the propaganda the easiest. But, to go overboard and start attributing all of the worlds ills on propaganda is not even logical weather it pertains to vaping or anything else.

 

[Bunnykiller]

Long term smoking always causes cancer?

nope... I had a great grandmother that lived to 103, grew up on a tobacco farm and smoked from age 13 to 103, she passed away from a non tobacco related illness...

 

[Papillon61]

There is only one fact I am a 100% sure of and that is in 10 years' time I will be 10 years older and probably dead anyway - whether I vape or not. For all I know I might die from eating bacon... of just from inhaling exhaust fumes while taking a stroll by the waterfront. Once again I have to express my puzzlement. If people are having nightmares about the possible effects of vaping, why do they vape? Why don't they just quit.

 

[AXIOM_1]

Once again I have to express my puzzlement. If people are having nightmares about the possible effects of vaping, why do they vape? Why don't they just quit.

There is nothing puzzling about it. It is known as having an addictive personality. Most folks would consider people who hoard and live on tons of trash to be a very puzzling lifestyle. But, hoarding is very real and the person who has OCD and the hoarding problem struggles and suffers with it.

Here is a snippet from Wikipedia on addiction and I will highlight the main points....

Addiction is a state characterized by compulsive engagement in rewarding stimuli, despite adverse consequences.[7] It can be thought of as a disease or biological process leading to such behaviors.[1][8] The two properties that characterize all addictive stimuli are that they are reinforcing (i.e., they increase the likelihood that a person will seek repeated exposure to them) and intrinsically rewarding (i.e., something perceived as being positive or desirable).[1][3][6]

Addiction is a disorder of the brain's reward system which arises through transcriptional and epigenetic mechanisms and occurs over time from chronically high levels of exposure to an addictive stimulus (e.g., morphine, ......., sexual intercourse, gambling, etc.).[1][9][10] ΔFosB, a gene transcription factor, is a critical component and common factor in the development of virtually all forms of behavioral and drug addictions;[9][10][11][12] two decades of research into ΔFosB's role in addiction have demonstrated that addiction arises, intensifies, and dies along with the genetic overexpression of ΔFosB in the D1-type medium spiny neurons of the nucleus accumbens, and it is therefore is used preclinically as an addiction biomarker.[1][9][10][11] ΔFosB expression in these neurons directly and positively regulates drug self-administration and reward sensitization through positive reinforcement while decreasing sensitivity to aversion.[note 1][1][9]

Addiction exacts an astoundingly high toll on individuals and society as a whole through the direct adverse effects of drugs, associated healthcare costs, long-term complications (e.g., lung cancer with smoking tobacco, liver cirrhosis with drinking alcohol, or .... mouth from intravenous methamphetamine), the functional consequences of altered neural plasticity in the brain, and the consequent loss of productivity.[13][14] Classic hallmarks of addiction include impaired control over substances or behavior, preoccupation with substance or behavior, and continued use despite consequences.[15] Habits and patterns associated with addiction are typically characterized by immediate gratification (short-term reward), coupled with delayed deleterious effects (long-term costs).[16]

Examples of drug and behavioral addictions include: alcoholism, amphetamine addiction, ....... addiction, nicotine addiction, opiate addiction, exercise addiction, food addiction, gambling addiction, and sexual addiction. The term addiction is misused frequently to refer to other compulsive behaviors or disorders, particularly dependence, in news media

 

[Papillon61]

There is nothing puzzling about it. It is known as having an addictive personality. Most folks would consider people who hoard and live on tons of trash to be a very puzzling lifestyle. But, hoarding is very real and the person who has OCD and the hoarding problem struggles and suffers with it.

Agreed. But do these addictive personality sufferers then proceed to go on public forums to make other people's lives as miserable as theirs?

So long pals - have a nice day and vape on!

 

[AXIOM_1]

Agreed. But do these addictive personality sufferers then proceed to go on public forums to make other people's lives as miserable as theirs?

So long pals - have a nice day and vape on!

lol...... I should hope not Hmmmmm.....your comment could be taken several ways for sure. I hope you don't feel I am trying to do that because like I stated in my posts, I am "on the fence" and do not have much of an opinion one way or the other. I have also stated that I tend to err on the side of caution and think that people should use moderation...... As for others here who may be promoting the idea that vaping is bad then I suppose I understand how you could feel that they are somehow trying to make you as miserable as you think they feel. But then again, you would have to ask those people if they are in fact miserable. It may be that they are just cautious. I don't know if I would call them miserable but you would have to ask them. As for myself, I don't feel "miserable" about vaping nor do I want others to feel miserable about it for sure. I do however, think that people should have all possibilities and thoughts put in front of them so that they can make up their own minds. Yes, vape on!

 

[skoony]

Here is your "theory" again. And again you are wrong. PG and VG do vaporize. Easily.

its not a theory.its how it works.
the reason pure VG is hard to vape is becuase
there is not enough water content to atomize
the mix properly .that's why most add water.
they think their just thinning it a little. in
actuality its creating more water vapor to
better atomize the base liquid.
in order for PG to start vaporizing the tempiture
would have to be above 300F.VG above 500F.
the water vaporizes starting at 180F.
once you open a bottle of PG or VG and start mixing
it is absorbing water from the air relative to the humidity.
without adding water most juice will have 2-3 % minimum
water.water is added in most cases during production to
maintain consistency of product insuring quality.
the main ingredients of PG and VG is water.
regards
mike

 

[supermarket]

I find this thread rather confusing. If some people are so convince vaping is dicey, why on earth do they vape?.... or don't they?

Your reply is a common issue I see on hobby forums, not just vaping forums. So far, up to your post, I haven't seen a single person say vaping IS unhealthy. Rather, just people trying to make educated , thoughtful decisions and replies. It is of utmost IMPORTANCE that we don't consider vaping "safe", until we know this for sure. Considering vaping a healthier alternative to smoking makes SENSE.....but to consider vaping safe does NOT. Why? Because we have no evidence to support that claim. That is just being HONEST, and non-bias.

 

[supermarket]

Your reply is a common issue I see on hobby forums, not just vaping forums. So far, up to your post, I haven't seen a single person say vaping IS unhealthy. Rather, just people trying to make educated , thoughtful decisions and replies. It is of utmost IMPORTANCE that we don't consider vaping "safe", until we know this for sure. Considering vaping a healthier alternative to smoking makes SENSE.....but to consider vaping safe does NOT. Why? Because we have no evidence to support that claim. That is just being HONEST, and non-bias.

Oh, and to the guy NVeil who keeps spamming 3 or 4 "facts" in this thread, and then bashes anyone who doesn't conclude from his posts that vaping is 100% safe, you would make a TERRIBLE scientist. lol.

Thanks for repeating those 4 facts, and I mean that honestly. However, trying to conclude from those 4 RANDOM facts about PG, anything regarding the safety and effectiveness of vaping, is nonsensical. They say NOTHING about vaping, just about PG.

As others have stated, vaping has MANY elements to it besides PG. Also, PG is consumed (via vaping) in a MUCH different method than any of those studies from the past look into. Even inhalers don't using a heating method, but that's already been mentioned in this thread.


As I said before, when people are enthusiastic about something, they are often blinded to the negative consequences. You can see this in drug addicts, to toddlers wanting to play with something dangerous, to humans who fixate on things and block out any negative consequences associated with said thing.


vaping is, hopefully, not going to destroy us Hopefully it will be something else that destroys our bodies! However, we don't know how safe vaping is, and anyone who says they do, is lying to you.

 

[skoony]

The fact of the matter is that just because something is proven to be not harmful in the SHORT term does not mean it is not harmful in the LONG term especially if people overdo it and at a chronic pace.

most of the science indicates at least the cigalikes are so
safe when compared to smoking as to be harmless.
certainly safer than breathing the air in some cities.
more advanced gear may have an increased risk but,
there again all the science we have now indicates nothing
going on unless the hardware is being abused.
right out of the box the materials used in the juice and
the process of manufacture is so simple and safe to begin
with along with the simplicity of the hardware makes
this product inherently safe from conception.
so what do we do? we play the we don't know game.
the long term studies will tell the tale.
so i ask you.with all the good science we have already,
what on earth makes anyone think the long term studies
will show something different?
the fact of the mater is everything we know now says its
good to go.so lets go. i am sure if anything crops up as a
concern it will easily be taken care off and not even a major
concern.
of course there will be those that find a way to abuse the
product (if their not doing it already.) resulting in some
unknown consequence.there's nothing to be done about
that. no amount of regulation,oversite,self policing or,
testing can negate the human spirit.
i firmly believe there is no serious issues concerning health
in otherwise healthy individuals for any part of the industry
to regulated beyond what is already in place concerning
the manufacturing of consumer goods.
no one is going after aroma therapy and we know it can
be dangerous.
we have all seen how the industry is maturing on its own.
it might not be as fast as we want but,its coming.
there will be something for everyone.
i do not care if a vendor does not test. they may believe
as i do that its of no concern. they have a right to believe
that just as much as any customer has a right to believe
otherwise.

regards
mike

 

[AXIOM_1]

And bad breath

I don't think the person you're responding to knows what cancers are.

That is a very idiotic statement for sure. Probably one of the worst I have seen since being on this forum.......... I just lost my mother to lung cancer and watched her wither away in pain and suffering. I know enough about lung cancer to know that anyone without a delusional mind would never want to get lung cancer. I think YOU are the one who does not know about cancer!