Propylene Glycol origins?
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Much of the ingredients for our prescription medicines come from China. And yet we cannot buy prescription medicine from Canada because it is not safe?
Actually because it would cut into big Pharma profits.
Most of our prescription medicine is made in other countries. the cheaper medicines from Canada are made in the same factories that the USA sold medicines are.
It is a matter of what the market will bear and they are bleeding us bare.
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Most consider it far safer than smoking. And so far the evidence bears out that hypothesis.
But there is no way that vaping can be safer than not vaping. There must be some downsides to vaping.
I vape because I like it better than smoking and it is cheaper than smoking and fills in for my addiction.
PG has been studied since the forties. So much for the "That's too new; he have no long-term studies" nonsense.
That may be true for flavourings, but not for the only thing that's *really* needed for vaping .
If some flavourings are proven to be harmful, just remove them. Problem solved.
If *all* flavourings are proven to be harmful, unflavoured PG/VG *still* beats smoking by far. Trust me.
And ironically, PG has been used on formulations to help treat *lung diseases* - some drugs/medicines dissolve quite well in PG.
I believe that's were Hon Lik got the idea of dissolving nicotine in PG - as a chemist, it's no wonder that he would resort to what was already being *safely* used in the medical field.
Of course, some people will tell you that "It still does not make it safe. One thing is having a treatment for a short period of time, another thing is sucking on PG everyday for six and an half years". Our lungs were not made[SIC] for that." (Someone I know, speaking on the bar, as if he were a doctor or something).
Yes.
I have heard that one once.
My response? I'm quite sure our lungs were also not "made" to inhale cigarette smoke, everyday, for more than twenty years.
*That* made his shut his mouth.
Study shows inhaled medicine improves survival for lung transplant patients
Study shows inhaled medicine improves survival for lung transplant patients | EurekAlert! Science News
Quote:
"One of the major challenges the researchers faced early on was finding a substance that could be mixed with the cyclosporine to enable patients to safely inhale the drug without irritating their throat or lungs. They decided to combine the cyclosporine with propylene glycol, which allowed the drug to be administered as an aerosol. Novartis Pharmaceuticals provided the cyclosporine powder, which was then compounded by the researchers."
Preservation of post-transplant lung function with aerosol cyclosporin
Preservation of post-transplant lung function with aerosol cyclosporin
Electronic cigarettes: achieving a balanced perspective
Electronic cigarettes: achieving a balanced perspective. - PubMed - NCBI
Pharmaceutical formulation of a stable formoterol-containing propylene glycol solution for use in inhalation therapy and method of preparing it
Zahnärztliches Handstück - Patent 0217093
Nebulizer Therapy: A Platform for Pulmonary Drug Delivery
http://pelagiaresearchlibrary.com/der-pharmacia-sinica/vol3-iss6/DPS-2012-3-6-630-636.pdf
That may be true for flavourings, but not for the only thing that's *really* needed for vaping .
If some flavourings are proven to be harmful, just remove them. Problem solved.
If *all* flavourings are proven to be harmful, unflavoured PG/VG *still* beats smoking by far. Trust me.
And ironically, PG has been used on formulations to help treat *lung diseases* - some drugs/medicines dissolve quite well in PG.
I believe that's were Hon Lik got the idea of dissolving nicotine in PG - as a chemist, it's no wonder that he would resort to what was already being *safely* used in the medical field.
Of course, some people will tell you that "It still does not make it safe. One thing is having a treatment for a short period of time, another thing is sucking on PG everyday for six and an half years". Our lungs were not made[SIC] for that." (Someone I know, speaking on the bar, as if he were a doctor or something).
Yes.
I have heard that one once.
My response? I'm quite sure our lungs were also not "made" to inhale cigarette smoke, everyday, for more than twenty years.
*That* made his shut his mouth.
Study shows inhaled medicine improves survival for lung transplant patients
Study shows inhaled medicine improves survival for lung transplant patients | EurekAlert! Science News
Quote:
"One of the major challenges the researchers faced early on was finding a substance that could be mixed with the cyclosporine to enable patients to safely inhale the drug without irritating their throat or lungs. They decided to combine the cyclosporine with propylene glycol, which allowed the drug to be administered as an aerosol. Novartis Pharmaceuticals provided the cyclosporine powder, which was then compounded by the researchers."
Preservation of post-transplant lung function with aerosol cyclosporin
Preservation of post-transplant lung function with aerosol cyclosporin
Electronic cigarettes: achieving a balanced perspective
Electronic cigarettes: achieving a balanced perspective. - PubMed - NCBI
Pharmaceutical formulation of a stable formoterol-containing propylene glycol solution for use in inhalation therapy and method of preparing it
Zahnärztliches Handstück - Patent 0217093
Nebulizer Therapy: A Platform for Pulmonary Drug Delivery
http://pelagiaresearchlibrary.com/der-pharmacia-sinica/vol3-iss6/DPS-2012-3-6-630-636.pdf
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The power of propaganda.
"There must be something wrong with it"
There are a number of reasons why vaping could be healthy...
1. Nicotine has numerous known health advantages (and that is the origin of the old idea that cigs were healthy... in some important ways there were. Just not in others...)
2. PG is known to be an antibacterial and antiviral, particularly when inhaled. There is some evidence that vaping may reduce the incidents of colds and flu. And if that is the case, and if some day it is proven that lung cancer, for example, is actually caused by a virus, then it is possible that vaping could help prevent lung cancer. Possible. Pure speculation. Countering your assertion that there simply cannot be net benefits to vaping.
Maybe... We once thought that smoking was healthy for ya too.
Maybe...
Too much of anything is bad for ya.
This article discusses a 1942 research study concluding that PG is effective as an antiviral/antibacterial when inhaled.
Propylene glycol in e cigarettes might keep us healthy, says researchers
Propylene glycol in e cigarettes might keep us healthy, says researchers
yep and we thought that smoking was healthy for ya in 1942.
I'm pleased to see that you backpedaled from your stance that "something must be wrong with it", and now you acknowledge that any harm is pure speculation. And of course, "maybe harmful" can be applied to every product, behavior and activity since as we all know it is impossible to prove a negative. That is why "maybe" is so useful in the hands of a propagandist. Please don't carry ANTZ's water for them. Let them do that heavy lifting.
Backpedaled? Stance that something must be wrong with it?
Carry ANTZ water for them?
Whatever.
Carry ANTZ water for them?
Whatever.
Here we go again lol This conversation seems rather trite to myself as each one of you are trying to propagate your inner beliefs in regards to vaping. Some of you think that it may be harmful over long periods of time and others here seem to think that not only is it probably not harmful but may even be beneficial. Seems like a VAST range of ideas. Unlike many of you here, I do not exactly have any one notion or idea on the subject......well, except for one word but it pertains to everything in life and not just vaping. The words I am referring to is called BALANCE/MODERATION.......... Food and water are known to be substances that are good for us (we can't live without them) but to an excess, and over long periods of time, they often kill us. So these substances that are good for us in moderate quantities are "healthy" but in excess then they are harmful. Same thing goes for most antibiotics and medications. In small quantities, they can save your life but chronic and prolonged use of these substances can kill you.
So, if it is ever proved that vaping has healthy properties involved then that still is not good enough of a reason to overuse the product without some form of moderation. Just like with food, chronic and prolonged use may be harmful or fatal even though in the short term it is considered good for you. Colloidal silver has anti microbial properties but I certainly will not drink gallons of it per day as that would be harmful.
On the other hand, people here who suggest that over the long term that it is "likely" to be harmful in some way or another are in my opinion, closer to erring on the side of caution. Nothing wrong with that. Better to be safe than sorry. Then if that is the case, why do it at all? It's probably because most of us have addictive personalities and will do things that we know are harmful for us. Most people know that smoking is deadly but they continuously do it anyway.
But, I think logically and using common sense that most of us "assume" that vaping is healthier than smoking and so this is why we traded smoking for vaping. If we didn't assume this then we would still more than likely be smoking. We are still pacifying our addictive natures by switching to something that "may" be less harmful.
This conversation seems rather trite to myself as each one of you are trying to propagate your inner beliefs in regards to vaping. Some of you think that it may be harmful over long periods of time and others here seem to think that not only is it probably not harmful but may even be beneficial. Seems like a VAST range of ideas. Unlike many of you here, I do not exactly have any one notion or idea on the subject......well, except for one word but it pertains to everything in life and not just vaping. The words I am referring to is called BALANCE/MODERATION.......... Food and water are known to be substances that are good for us (we can't live without them) but to an excess, and over long periods of time, they often kill us. So these substances that are good for us in moderate quantities are "healthy" but in excess then they are harmful. Same thing goes for most antibiotics and medications. In small quantities, they can save your life but chronic and prolonged use of these substances can kill you.So, if it is ever proved that vaping has healthy properties involved then that still is not good enough of a reason to overuse the product without some form of moderation. Just like with food, chronic and prolonged use may be harmful or fatal even though in the short term it is considered good for you. Colloidal silver has anti microbial properties but I certainly will not drink gallons of it per day as that would be harmful.
On the other hand, people here who suggest that over the long term that it is "likely" to be harmful in some way or another are in my opinion, closer to erring on the side of caution. Nothing wrong with that. Better to be safe than sorry. Then if that is the case, why do it at all? It's probably because most of us have addictive personalities and will do things that we know are harmful for us. Most people know that smoking is deadly but they continuously do it anyway.
But, I think logically and using common sense that most of us "assume" that vaping is healthier than smoking and so this is why we traded smoking for vaping. If we didn't assume this then we would still more than likely be smoking. We are still pacifying our addictive natures by switching to something that "may" be less harmful.
Actually I've always been very careful to leave my inner beliefs out of this, discussing only the FACTS that we know. Since when is discussing facts merely "an inner belief"?Here we go again lol
Because I don't see lots of facts being slung around, only beliefs. A few of the folks in this thread are "assuming" that long termed usage may be bad. This of course is a "belief" and not a fact. Long termed smoking causes cancer (fact) , so what does long termed inhalation of PG/VG cause? I am assuming that the folks on this thread are using common sense which would indicate that "something" in the lungs should change. That something may be good or bad........... I personally (without facts) tend to lean towards the side of caution and I think that chronic use of PG/VG cannot be too great of a thing in large amounts and for long periods of time. Our lungs are clearly made to transport oxygen into the bloodstream not PG and VG...... While PG may be known to be nontoxic (fact) that does not mean that chronic and prolonged use of it (just like overeating) is not harmful.
So, my unproven assumption is that if people are going to vape (or anything else in life) then by using moderation then I believe lots of potential problems can be avoided.
the PG and or VG in e-juice does not vaporize.
the water in the juice vaporizes and in turn atomizes the base much
like any hand pumped sprayer.
FACT: PG is a antibacterial/antiviral (study previously linked, this is just a well known fact)
FACT: Nicotine reduces stress and provides relief for a variety of neurological issues, but without any known side affects (unlike the pharma drugs that try to do the same)
FACT: There is no credible study providing evidence of any substantial harm from vaping. That is a A FACT.
The library here is full of additional FACTS supporting the conclusion that there are no known adverse consequences to vaping.
You are demanding some FACT that proves a negative- that there will never be any adverse consequences found. That is not a fact, that is a religion and philosophy.
It is also a fact that there are few long term studies of most of the potential risks in modern life. But it is a A FACT that vaping is held to a much higher standard than those other risks. That is the power of ANTZ propaganda. I choose not to carry their water for them.
Can't get the pdf link to work correctly. Here is the google search. 1st pdf.
propelyne glycol inhalation studies in mice - Google Search
Not sure if it will work. Read and form your own conclusions.
propelyne glycol inhalation studies in mice - Google Search
Not sure if it will work. Read and form your own conclusions.
Pg was discovered in the 20's
Many claim the person or agency is unknown at this point.
Some sources point toG erman hydraulic engineer Gotthilf Hagen.
Even if we didnt vape. The amount of pg and vg you are exposed to on a daily basis may actually surprise you. From food to medicine to health care products pg has been part of your life since birth.
I will have to wake up with a lung removed before you can make me believe it is harmful, in the 30+ years of smoking 2pad or more of reds, I cannot ever remember breathing or feeling this good.
Many claim the person or agency is unknown at this point.
Some sources point toG erman hydraulic engineer Gotthilf Hagen.
Even if we didnt vape. The amount of pg and vg you are exposed to on a daily basis may actually surprise you. From food to medicine to health care products pg has been part of your life since birth.
I will have to wake up with a lung removed before you can make me believe it is harmful, in the 30+ years of smoking 2pad or more of reds, I cannot ever remember breathing or feeling this good.
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