propylene glycol USP...avoid inhalation
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Inhaled ciclosporin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_propylene_glycol_vapor_safe_for_inhalation
This one includes research references
We use a nebulizer here. My children arent yet versed in the the little hand held one yet....
Nebulizers arent outdated, they are just not generally Rx'd for the majority.
Funny you asked this, as when I pulled the products(we have 2 different kinds here), none had ingredients listed on the box or on the insert. I thought that was required, but maybe it was on flyer that I always throw away now?
Op, I dont think anyone is trying to look down on anything, just that if one thing can be looked up and posted, then perhaps so should the opposing information. Most of us have read it, but dont bother with a personal archive. Searches are too easy. Just tell a person what to look under, and they can if they wish.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_propylene_glycol_vapor_safe_for_inhalation
This one includes research references
We use a nebulizer here. My children arent yet versed in the the little hand held one yet....
Nebulizers arent outdated, they are just not generally Rx'd for the majority.
Funny you asked this, as when I pulled the products(we have 2 different kinds here), none had ingredients listed on the box or on the insert. I thought that was required, but maybe it was on flyer that I always throw away now?
Op, I dont think anyone is trying to look down on anything, just that if one thing can be looked up and posted, then perhaps so should the opposing information. Most of us have read it, but dont bother with a personal archive. Searches are too easy. Just tell a person what to look under, and they can if they wish.
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Oh sorry I forgot, thanks to all who were trying to be helpfull here. I`m ok with the lable now. Great people, great forum.
I think the important thing to remember here is that manufacturers always put boilerplate CYA warnings on their packaging because they don't want to get sued by some idiot who did something dumb with it without being able to point to the labeling and say, "See? We told you not to do that. Not our fault you didn't read."
That doesn't mean all warnings are to be ignored -- they are there for a reason, even if it's sometimes just to safeguard against that one-in-a-million bozo. Because somewhere out there is (or was) the idiot who was the catalyst for putting the first warning against human consumption on a bottle of bleach.
That doesn't mean all warnings are to be ignored -- they are there for a reason, even if it's sometimes just to safeguard against that one-in-a-million bozo. Because somewhere out there is (or was) the idiot who was the catalyst for putting the first warning against human consumption on a bottle of bleach.
I recently bought a chainsaw and there was a warning not to attempt to stop the chain with your genitailia. I'm glad that was on there because it had crossed my mind 
I recently bought a chainsaw and there was a warning not to attempt to stop the chain with your genitailia. I'm glad that was on there because it had crossed my mind
Wow. That's .... that's just ...
Ow.
*crosses legs*
I do not want to meet the poor sap that inspired that warning, but I'll bet he sings an awesome soprano.
I recently bought a chainsaw and there was a warning not to attempt to stop the chain with your genitailia. I'm glad that was on there because it had crossed my mind
I'm terrified of plastic bags. They're everywhere! They can stop you from breathing, you know. Kidding.
randomlight, the experts in the DIY forum may know a lot more. You may get more help there too, trying to help.
Yes. I'm familiar with those sources. The problem is, it has never been proven to my satisfaction. I checked (and others did too) lists of ingredients of several asthma inhalers and not one actually listed PG as a propellant.
I think it's one of those myths that just won't die (and it is repeated frequently here on ECF).
I think Mary Kay is right--PG may have been used in asthma inhalers in the past, but I'm yet to find it being used currently.
That said, I'm not suggesting that PG is bad or dangerous to inhale; only that it's not being used in inhalers.
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PG was studied over 60 years ago, and has been used ever since, including the tests of anti-rejection inhalers for lung transplant patients (one case where we can be reasonably confident that the carrier medium was selected by really smart people explicitly focused on things to not harm the lungs).
http://m.jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/91/1/52.abstract
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inhaled_ciclosporin
PG is also commonly listed under ingredients using some of its alternate trade names.
http://www.epa.gov/oppsrrd1/reregistration/REDs/propylene_glycol_red.pdf
Appendix d of the epa red is an extensive bibliography, specifically including inhalation studies.
It is still in use. A member looked at the insert on an inhaler she uses just a couple months ago, It was listed.
http://m.jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/91/1/52.abstract
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inhaled_ciclosporin
PG is also commonly listed under ingredients using some of its alternate trade names.
http://www.epa.gov/oppsrrd1/reregistration/REDs/propylene_glycol_red.pdf
Appendix d of the epa red is an extensive bibliography, specifically including inhalation studies.
It is still in use. A member looked at the insert on an inhaler she uses just a couple months ago, It was listed.
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That's true.
This is very interesting. Can't open the PDF file linked. Do you happen to know the name of the inhaler? It would be very reassuring to find an actual asthma inhaler using PG. Another bullet in our ongoing fight with FDA.
Thank you.
The pdf should be ok, I just redownloaded and it opened right up in adobe.
I'll dig up the current use citation. It was a commonly used one (i don't use inhalers but recognized the name).
I'll dig up the current use citation. It was a commonly used one (i don't use inhalers but recognized the name).
Mark, I went over the file (including the Appendix D). Thanks.
C. Use Profile
1. Propylene Glycol
The following is information on the currently registered uses of propylene glycol products and an overview of use sites and application methods. A detailed table of the uses of propylene glycol eligible for reregistration is contained in Appendix A.
Type of Pesticide: Bacteriostat, Fungistat
Summary of Use Sites:
Indoor Non-Food: Propylene glycol is used on the following use sites: air treatment (eating establishments, hospital, commercial, institutional, household, bathroom, transportational facilities); medical premises and equipment, commercial, institutional and industrial premises and equipment; laundry equipment; hard non-porous surface treatments (bathroom facilities); automobiles; air conditioning filters; pet treatment, including cats, dogs, and caged birds; environmental inanimate hard surfaces; garbage containers/storage.
Target Pests: Odor-causing bacteria, Fleas, Mites, Red lice, Animal pathogenic bacteria (G- and G+ vegetative), Shigella bacteria, Pasteurella bacteria, Listeria bacteria, Herpes Simplex I and II, Animal viruses, Influenza Virus A2, Aspergillus Niger Fungus, Mold/Mildew, Pseudomonas SPP., Shigella Flexneri, Shigella Sonnei.
Inert Uses: As an inert ingredient, propylene glycol facilitates delivery of formulated pesticide chemical products that are used as herbicides, fungicides, insecticides, growth regulators and attractants on various commodities. It is also used in the formulation and repackaging of wood preservatives.
Can't find anything wrt medical use in inhalers.
I am familiar with toxicity studies (well, some of them). I'm still looking for data and present use in asthma inhalers...
C. Use Profile
1. Propylene Glycol
The following is information on the currently registered uses of propylene glycol products and an overview of use sites and application methods. A detailed table of the uses of propylene glycol eligible for reregistration is contained in Appendix A.
Type of Pesticide: Bacteriostat, Fungistat
Summary of Use Sites:
Indoor Non-Food: Propylene glycol is used on the following use sites: air treatment (eating establishments, hospital, commercial, institutional, household, bathroom, transportational facilities); medical premises and equipment, commercial, institutional and industrial premises and equipment; laundry equipment; hard non-porous surface treatments (bathroom facilities); automobiles; air conditioning filters; pet treatment, including cats, dogs, and caged birds; environmental inanimate hard surfaces; garbage containers/storage.
Target Pests: Odor-causing bacteria, Fleas, Mites, Red lice, Animal pathogenic bacteria (G- and G+ vegetative), Shigella bacteria, Pasteurella bacteria, Listeria bacteria, Herpes Simplex I and II, Animal viruses, Influenza Virus A2, Aspergillus Niger Fungus, Mold/Mildew, Pseudomonas SPP., Shigella Flexneri, Shigella Sonnei.
Inert Uses: As an inert ingredient, propylene glycol facilitates delivery of formulated pesticide chemical products that are used as herbicides, fungicides, insecticides, growth regulators and attractants on various commodities. It is also used in the formulation and repackaging of wood preservatives.
Can't find anything wrt medical use in inhalers.
I am familiar with toxicity studies (well, some of them). I'm still looking for data and present use in asthma inhalers...
Alright, I'm going to dip a toe in...
First off, this is about relative risk to smoking analogs and other activities. In that light nothing I've found suggests PG is anything but ~safer~ to a majority of people (allergies aside). With that said...
- I found many Patent applications and medical disclosures that listed PG as a potential ingredient in ashthma inhalers. However, the last reference I found of one actually being made with PG was in the late 80s and that's tentative at best.
- PG is readily used today in medical nebulizers, home nebulizers, isolation tents, in whole rooms, and many hospital settings.
- PG is of course used in a number of air fresheners, candles, moisturizers, foods, and any number of other things we end up inhaling in some capacity or another. Albeit not as directly as vaping.
- I found references to small studies and discussions around "occupational" exposure to PG in the cigar industry, stage/entertainment industry, and even a really specific discussion of PG exposure in Russian nightclubs. All associated with humidity control or fog machines (which use PG).
- During my travels I was able to find an off-brand generic Albuterol inhaler in Czech and Poland that listed PG as an ingredient on the box. However, it wasn't clear that it was specific to their inhaler or they were generically listing ingredients that included their liquid offering for use in nebulizers.
So, I think it's still quite clear PG isn't a relatively higher risk than analogs in any capacity. I doubt it's even in the same ballpark (also given that PG is in many cigarettes). However, I think standing on asthma inhalers is just not good practical advocacy advice because, if it has happened, it's not horribly easy to independently verify ~today~.
Cheers, -Magnus
First off, this is about relative risk to smoking analogs and other activities. In that light nothing I've found suggests PG is anything but ~safer~ to a majority of people (allergies aside). With that said...
- I found many Patent applications and medical disclosures that listed PG as a potential ingredient in ashthma inhalers. However, the last reference I found of one actually being made with PG was in the late 80s and that's tentative at best.
- PG is readily used today in medical nebulizers, home nebulizers, isolation tents, in whole rooms, and many hospital settings.
- PG is of course used in a number of air fresheners, candles, moisturizers, foods, and any number of other things we end up inhaling in some capacity or another. Albeit not as directly as vaping.
- I found references to small studies and discussions around "occupational" exposure to PG in the cigar industry, stage/entertainment industry, and even a really specific discussion of PG exposure in Russian nightclubs. All associated with humidity control or fog machines (which use PG).
- During my travels I was able to find an off-brand generic Albuterol inhaler in Czech and Poland that listed PG as an ingredient on the box. However, it wasn't clear that it was specific to their inhaler or they were generically listing ingredients that included their liquid offering for use in nebulizers.
So, I think it's still quite clear PG isn't a relatively higher risk than analogs in any capacity. I doubt it's even in the same ballpark (also given that PG is in many cigarettes). However, I think standing on asthma inhalers is just not good practical advocacy advice because, if it has happened, it's not horribly easy to independently verify ~today~.
Cheers, -Magnus
That's an easy one. The MSDS is not going to help.
To illustrate, I am going to use water. We all know water and we all know that inhaling steam from a hot coffee, or hot water is not going to kill us. But if you look at the MSDS or other kinds of safety warnings it will say just that: "do not inhale water". That's because water AS a LIQUID will kill you. Just as PG as a LIQUID will kill you. The warnings on containers are for the material inside and that takes into account their physical state.
No need to return the product if you don't stick the bottle up your nose
I dug this up from the Health forum, a little old, don't know if it helps, post 47. http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/medical-research/1690-links-e-cig-related-legal-medical-information-5.html
Whether you trust the FDA...that's another matter.
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Thanks, Just. I'm not too worried about PG toxicity, even when inhaled. A sugar molecule is a sugar molecule, and our bodies know how to metabolize it (or so I hope!)
My problem is with the use of PG as a propellant in asthma inhalers. I've been trying to investigate it for some time and can't find any proof of that. Perpetuating a myth only hurts our cause--and misinforms people.
LOL.. funny cus I bought a 473.176 mL bottle of PG ( 5 bucks) for DIY, same size VG (8 bucks)too from same company cus they were cheap. The PG is only supposed to last 2 perhaps 2 and 1/2 years. In 4 months of using it every day I have used only a half of an ounce out of my bottle. I mix small 3 ml batches daily of 24 ML with 60mg/ml nicotine a lil pg and flavoring. PG is 75% to 25 % VG. That's around 9 to 10 drops of PG each 3 ml batch. This stuff just stretches and stretches. I may have some left over after 2 and 1/2 years! DIY is Da BOMB for saving $$$ !
One thing is for sure.. those who Mix their own juice to sell are Really racking in the dough. Even my Nicotine at 60 mg/ml cut with 100% PG ( cus they always cut it for safety Nic is so strong in 100% pure form) is only 11 dollars but I wait till a 50% off sale to buy and get it for a whopping $5.50 - it lasts me 4 months! Throw in a few small bottles of concentrate flavors for a few bucks and for less than 25 dollars you have a 4 month supply of all your DIY stuff. Great for people starting out on a budget and WAY more savings than cigarettes. It's a Win Win !
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