propylene glycol USP...avoid inhalation

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BardicDruid

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Ya'll need to be careful that you get the food/medical grade and not the industrial, there are two different types. The first is used in e-liquid, the second is the stuff that's general used with machinery, the one use I've found is as a suspension for buffing abrasives. So ya'll need to watch out because the second one is produced with any regard for sanitation.
 

JustaGuy

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Ya'll need to be careful that you get the food/medical grade and not the industrial, there are two different types. The first is used in e-liquid, the second is the stuff that's general used with machinery, the one use I've found is as a suspension for buffing abrasives. So ya'll need to watch out because the second one is produced with any regard for sanitation.

"Without" any regard to sanitation, Druid. We know what you mean. :)

That brings up another point. Where are the PG & VG from, who made it? I love cheap too, but I'm sure more than one company makes them at differing qualities.
 

markfm

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Info on pg use is simply buried in the mud. For instance look at tornalate: http://www.orgyn.com/resources/genrx/D000505.asp " Tornalate Solution for Inhalation contains 0.2% bitolterol mesylate in an aqueous vehicle containing alcohol 25% (v/v), citric acid, propylene glycol, and sodium hydroxide."

Or, at http://www.southalabama.edu/alliedhealth/crc/ you can find

http://98.131.51.117/files/00_rt_therapy_drugs.pptx

Page 6 cites pg as a mucokinetic agent, and 55 discusses it.

Search for mucokinetic and pg and you start tripping over things like: http://www.uninursety.com/user/courses_n/intergrated_pharmacology.php#mucokinetic

which describes how pg is inert, commonly used in medical aerosols, used as a solvent and stabilizing agent, and how it's specifically used to minimize shrinkage of aerosol particles as they are carried through the respiratory tract.
 

Katya

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Thanks. I'm still not convinced, though. Yes, PG is present in various solutions, syrups and tablets, but not as a propellant in inhalers.

From your link above:

" The bottle contains 16.4 g (15 ml) of 0.8% bitolterol mesylate in a vehicle containing 38% alcohol (w/w), inert propellants (dichlorodifluoromethane and dichlorotetrafluoroethane), ascorbic acid, saccharin, and menthol."

No mention of PG.

Here's another interesting conversation on the subject I followed a while ago (please read through post #5455):

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-forum-discussion-thread-545.html#post3655706

There have been many other discussions, earlier, all inconclusive, at best.

Even this list of PG applications does not mention inhalers. (I know the source is not 100% reliable, but I think that would mention asthma inhalers, as so many poeple use them...)

Propylene glycol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

IMO, it would be prudent to refrain from informing people that PG is commonly used in inhalers, but I'll leave it at that.
 
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markfm

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The quote in my post listing ingredients is directly from the link for the drug, says propylene glycol.

The continuing education link also, clearly, states that it is used, and why. The group is state accredited for nursing education, unlikely to print random false information on a technical topic. "Propylene glycol is a physiologically inert substance found in many aerosol preparations." is a direct quote. (another section discusses the "why" of it)
 
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Katya

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If you mean this one, I can't open it...

The continuing education link also, clearly, states that it is used, and why. The group is state accredited for nursing education, unlikely to print random false information on a technical topic. "Propylene glycol is a physiologically inert substance found in many aerosol preparations." is a direct quote. (another section discusses the "why" of it

I read it, but it's all generalities: "it is used." PG is ubiquituos, it's in so many things...

I'm looking for a list of ingredients of an inhaler that uses PG as a propellant.
 
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Sdh

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randomlight

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Wouldnt` the fact that it says usp on it indicate that it is pharmesutical grade?
Ya'll need to be careful that you get the food/medical grade and not the industrial, there are two different types. The first is used in e-liquid, the second is the stuff that's general used with machinery, the one use I've found is as a suspension for buffing abrasives. So ya'll need to watch out because the second one is produced with any regard for sanitation.
 

Katya

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JW50

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Oh, thanks. If you could just maybe copy and paste the name of the drug and the list of ingredients.... at your convenience, I'd really appreciate it.

It would be nice to have the name of at least one inhaler still in use that actually lists PG as a propellant!!!!

Don't quite understand why you are looking for a "propellant". "Propellant" to me is that substance/chemical that forces something in some direction. Maybe, the substance/chemical that forces the "cream" from a saving cream can, the deodorant from a deodorant spray can, the paint from a can of spray paint, etc. In an inhaler situation I would think the PG might be there primarily as a "carrier". That is, some substance/chemical that through mixture, solution, chemical reaction, etc. is used to facilitate some target chemical being placed at some target place. For example, carrying nicotine to nicotine receptors. In latter case, if as like a e-cig, the "propellant" is air, the carrier of the nicotine is PG (or VG or the solution of multiple chemicals that are in predominately gaseous or liquid phase).

I am not suggesting that PG is used in inhalers. Just don't know. But as a "propellant", I wouldn't think one would find PG used as a "propellant" - any where. Maybe just semantics here and nothing of any substance. Perhaps your meaning is that PG can not be found as an active ingredient or as a listed inert or inactive ingredient.
 

MagnusEunson

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which describes how pg is inert, commonly used in medical aerosols, used as a solvent and stabilizing agent, and how it's specifically used to minimize shrinkage of aerosol particles as they are carried through the respiratory tract.

PG is used as the solvent in these cases, no question about it.

The continuing education link also, clearly, states that it is used, and why. The group is state accredited for nursing education, unlikely to print random false information on a technical topic. "Propylene glycol is a physiologically inert substance found in many aerosol preparations." is a direct quote. (another section discusses the "why" of it)

Yes, yes it is... you can find it listed as an active ingredient in off the shelf disinfectants and all manner of end-user product.

I think we're missing the point Katya was trying to make...

When we say it's used in asthma inhalers specifically it gives the impression that hundreds of thousands of people a day a puffing albuterol and PG w/o effect (for example). And when people pull those suckers out, look online, etc. and find that PG is indeed ~not~ used, it ~discredits~ the cause.

That's all she is saying... there are about a million ways to demonstrate PGs likely safety and fairly absolute relative safety to analogs. We shouldn't perpetuate a near myth that is hard to easily verify when we have an already good body of evidence. Doing so just draws the wrong type of attention to the overall goal. Which is risk reduction...

As I noted in my earlier post, there are a number of Patent references (and indeed PubMed references) to inhalers potentially used PG. They also list any number of other things. However, finding an actual inhaler in use today w/ PG doesn't appear likely.

On the other hand.. noting that PG is inhaled and used in certain areas of hospitals, in nebulizers (including those for homes), in life tents, in regular fragrance aerosols, in lipstick, in foods, in fog machines, etc. etc. is perfectly and easily verifiable by the every day average Joe. Not to mention a lot of analog cigarettes.

So in the end we're noting that the combination of PG, VG, and flavoring.. although continuously searching for better and safer options, is ALREADY SO MUCH BLOODY SAFER than the analog alternative.

We all on the same page now? Nobody is saying it wasn't used at some point, nobody is saying it isn't in other forms inhaled in other products, what Katya is saying (and I agree) is that saying it's used in asthma inhalers may not be the best example since (at a minimum) that seems pretty darn hard to verify easily. And we have these other HUGE bodies of evidence that it's indeed safely used elsewhere.

Shiny? -Magnus
 

Katya

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Perhaps your meaning is that PG can not be found as an active ingredient or as a listed inert or inactive ingredient.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that traces of PG can be found almost anywhere. That's not the issue here. Like Magnus explained so eloquently above (thank you Magnus), stating that PG is commonly used in asthma inhalers suggests that the amounts of PG in said inhalers are somewhat comparable to the amounts used in electronic cigarettes. And that is simply not the case. That's all.

Even if one could find PG listed as an active or inactive ingredient in an inhaler, which I have not been able to do to date, it still wouldn't mean that PG is commonly used in asthma inhalers.

Does that make sense?
 

JW50

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I guess what I'm trying to say is that traces of PG can be found almost anywhere. That's not the issue here. Like Magnus explained so eloquently above (thank you Magnus), stating that PG is commonly used in asthma inhalers suggests that the amounts of PG in said inhalers are somewhat comparable to the amounts used in electronic cigarettes. And that is simply not the case. That's all.

Even if one could find PG listed as an active or inactive ingredient in an inhaler, which I have not been able to do to date, it still wouldn't mean that PG is commonly used in asthma inhalers.

Does that make sense?

I think it makes sense. But in quest to find an asthma inhaler that might have PG in its formulation I ran across this for Advair HF Inhalers:
Observed During Clinical Practice: In addition to adverse events reported from clinical trials, the following events have been identified during worldwide use of any formulation of ADVAIR, fluticasone propionate, and/or salmeterol regardless of indication. Because they are reported voluntarily from a population of unknown size, estimates of frequency cannot be made. These events have been chosen for inclusion due to either their seriousness, frequency of reporting, or causal connection to ADVAIR, fluticasone propionate, and/or salmeterol or a combination of these factors. In extensive US and worldwide postmarketing experience with salmeterol, a component of ADVAIR HFA, serious exacerbations of asthma, including some that have been fatal, have been reported. In most cases, these have occurred in patients with severe asthma and/or in some patients in whom asthma has been acutely deteriorating (see WARNINGS), but they have also occurred in a few patients with less severe asthma. It was not possible from these reports to determine whether salmeterol contributed to these events.
Cardiovascular: Arrhythmias (including atrial fibrillation, extrasystoles, supraventricular tachycardia), hypertension, ventricular tachycardia.
Ear, Nose, and Throat: Aphonia, earache, facial and oropharyngeal edema, paranasal sinus pain, rhinitis, throat soreness and irritation, tonsillitis.
Endocrine and Metabolic: Cushing’s syndrome, Cushingoid features, growth velocity reduction in children/adolescents, hypercorticism, hyperglycemia, osteoporosis.
Eye: Cataracts, glaucoma.
Gastrointestinal: Dyspepsia, xerostomia.
Hepatobiliary Tract and Pancreas: Abnormal liver function tests.
Musculoskeletal: Back pain, myositis.
Neurology: Paresthesia, restlessness.
Non-Site Specific: Fever, immediate and delayed hypersensitivity reaction, pallor.
Psychiatry: Agitation, aggression, anxiety, depression. Behavioral changes, including hyperactivity and irritability, have been reported very rarely and primarily in children.
Respiratory: Asthma; asthma exacerbation; chest congestion; chest tightness; cough; dyspnea; immediate bronchospasm; influenza; paradoxical bronchospasm; tracheitis; wheezing; pneumonia; reports of upper respiratory symptoms of laryngeal spasm, irritation, or swelling; stridor; choking.
Skin: Contact dermatitis, contusions, ecchymoses, photodermatitis, pruritus.
Urogenital: Dysmenorrhea, irregular menstrual cycle, pelvic inflammatory disease, vaginal candidiasis, vaginitis, vulvovaginitis.
Eosinophilic Conditions: In rare cases, patients on inhaled fluticasone propionate, a component of ADVAIR HFA, may present with systemic eosinophilic conditions, with some patients presenting with clinical features of vasculitis consistent with Churg-Strauss syndrome, a condition that is often treated with systemic corticosteroid therapy. These events usually, but not always, have been associated with the reduction and/or withdrawal of oral corticosteroid therapy following the introduction of fluticasone propionate. Cases of serious eosinophilic conditions have also been reported with other inhaled corticosteroids in this clinical setting. While ADVAIR HFA should not be used for transferring patients from systemic corticosteroid therapy, physicians should be alert to eosinophilia, vasculitic rash, worsening pulmonary symptoms, cardiac complications, and/or neuropathy presenting in their patients. A causal relationship between fluticasone propionate and these underlying conditions has not been established (see PRECAUTIONS: General: Eosinophilic Conditions).

Thank goodness PG was NOT identified as being part of the Advair formulation.
 

Sdh

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I guess what I'm trying to say is that traces of PG can be found almost anywhere. That's not the issue here. Like Magnus explained so eloquently above (thank you Magnus), stating that PG is commonly used in asthma inhalers suggests that the amounts of PG in said inhalers are somewhat comparable to the amounts used in electronic cigarettes. And that is simply not the case. That's all.

Even if one could find PG listed as an active or inactive ingredient in an inhaler, which I have not been able to do to date, it still wouldn't mean that PG is commonly used in asthma inhalers.

Does that make sense?
I have not found a actual inhaler such as albuterol having PG as a ingredient. I know this thread has turned off topic but I agree with you Katya. Of course PG is present in some nebulizer formulations.

Just an FYI about Nebulized breathing treatments such as DuoNeb. These are usually prescribed q four hours as needed.

I know I have seen the touted postings related to pg found in actual inhalers. I can not find any credible information to prove the theory correct. However, PG is labeled under different names. See one of my prior links in this thread. Another source of information would be the Physicians desk reference. Anything and everything about a particular drug one can find in the book.
 

JW50

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Thanks, Sdh. Great information, al usual.

JW50--that's funny...or is it??? :facepalm:

I thought it interesting that the opening post relating to PG included "avoid inhalation or contact eyes. If contact wash eyes with water for 15 minutes. Get immediate medical attention." and Advair and FDA suggest "inhale" but "by the the way" you may want to note these "little" problems.
 
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