I got to admit that a lot of members told me to just pay the cash and buy pre-punched cartos. Well I'm a normal man and got to try it for myself. If you do it right it's wonderful. If you do it wrong(which I just did and wasted a brand new Phinaic tank full of shadowfax) then you messed up. I'll stand straight(as I can cause my backs out of wacks) and say that vaping is a life learning experience. But on the other hand which is a tank full of other juice, It's all worth it in the long run. Mess up a $0.65 cent carto or a $12 dollar nova. HUMMMMMMMMMMMM let me think. Besides when the tank works it's the best flavor I've ever had. I changed the carto's I got from ElectronicStix after 2 weeks. They finally started to taste bland and muted. They still worked but just tasted off. Oh well I got 50 more to play with.