Question about total flavor % for drippers

[Ryan Lee]

Ok, basically here are my thoughts. I have not received my nic from Wizard Labs yet, so this is strictly for recipe development.

My first goal is to make a Puppy Drool clone. It is mainly a strawberry kiwi mix. Keep in mind this is my very first go at DIY!

I mainly use my drippers, so I am wondering a good total flavoring percentage to start with. I do like a strong flavor, so I was thinking somewhere around 10% total. And also I am going to mix in say 1% ethyl maltol for some added sweetness, and some smooth to round it out.

I need an idea of a good total flavoring percentage for a juice that will be used in a dripper. Also, should I start with a 5ml recipe, or should I go even smaller?
one last thing, these will be around 70-80% vg in case that matter towards anyones advice.

Thanks!

 

[readeuler]

Who are your flavors from? I mix almost entirely TFA flavors, and keep my total flavor percentages around 20%-30%. It can vary a lot between different flavor manufacturers, and even among different flavors from a single manufacturer.

 

[AzPlumber]

Yep readeuler already posted but just to confirm, flavoring percentages can vary for a single flavor from below 1% to 25 or 30%. With more detail on flavor and brand we can get you a rough starting point for each.

 

[Ryan Lee]

I bought all of my flavors from Bull City. The flavors I am working with now are TFA Kiwi Double, and Capella Sweet Strawberry. Going for a Puppy Drool clone. Also, I am using I believe Bull City house brand Ethyl Maltol, as it has no other label besides BCV. I filled a 10 mil bottle of vg, and am steadily adding more and more drops of the Strawberry and Kiwi, 3 drops at a time. Strange thing is, I am not noticing much improvement on the flavor / sweetness.

I know the sweet strawberry should be sweet, but it is not coming through. My mix is right at 90% vg. Maybe I need to up the pg percentage. Really wanted to stay high vg though as it is easier on my throat, and it is in a Magma dripper.

I bought 12 other flavors, most are TFA, Capellas, and FW. Couple are from BVC. Next I am shooting for a pink lemonade. I bought a large bottle of BVC lemonade flavor as it had many good reviews, and the bottle smells amazing. Gonna mix it with some strawberry, a little cherry crush, and a touch of sour. This is so dang fun, I feel like a little chemist lol!

Appreciate the feedback from you amazing folks!

 

[Rin13]

I would definitely not go high on percentage if you are planning to drip. Considering the flavors you listed are TFA and Capella, neither in my experience have needed super high percentages to taste good. I don't know what "puppie drool" or whatever is so I don't have recommendations on it. However, I have used the "extras" from TFA, "extra" meaning more concentrated versions of the flavor... and they are strong. I would start low with it. Capella's tend to need a little higher of a percentage. The sweet strawberry, depending on how strong you need it to be compared to the Kiwi... I would go 5% to 10%... and the Kiwi, I wouldn't go higher than 3%. You can always add flavoring to it if you need to.
I DIY and drip and generally I try to stay as close to 10% total flavoring as I can. Usually more than that is overkill anyway. (and I don't use Flavor West or other flavor brands that require the higher percentages anyway)

 

[readeuler]

The best advice I can give: 100 drop tests, each drop being 1% of your recipe. So if you want a 6mg 90% VG recipe, that's gonna be tough (only because 10% total flavoring may be a bit underwhelming fresh), but you'd want:

6 drops VG Nic
10 drops flavor (I'd go lighter on Kiwi, the TFA kiwi is fairly strong. Probably equal parts Kiwi and EM)
84 drops VG.

For me though, I'd shoot for about 5% Kiwi, 10-15% Strawberry, (if I were TFA Strawberry, that is) and 5%ish EM as a start. Using only 10% Strawberry, this puts you at 20% flavor, which should be enough for you to get a good feel for the results "fresh" with no steeping. It would limit you to 80% VG, though.

But that's just me. I've made enough "meh" 10ml batches to convince me to test 100drops of any recipe beforeI committing to even a modest batch of anything.

I think you're going to have trouble replicating a a good mix created with both ml and drops, the two just don't get along.

 

[AzPlumber]

Your best bet is to measure percentages using a syringe but to give you an idea. If the flavoring youre using happens to measure 40 drops per ml out of that particular dropper. You'll need to add 4 drops per ml for 10% flavoring.

 

[Ryan Lee]

I most definitely use a syringe for measuring. A this point, I would just like to get the Capella Sweet Strawberry to taste remotely strong and sweet all by itself. The bottle of concentrate smells so amazing, but I can't seem to get any of it to shine in my mix. Maybe it requires steeping, maybe my nose is stuffed up to much to taste. I don't know, but it is frustrating.

I tried 85% vg first, and was not happy with the lack of flavor. So this time I mixed it 70 vg 30 pg. Mixed a small 5ml batch. Started with 5 drops of strawberry and 1 drop of em to try and sweeten it up. Nothing. Added one drop more of strawberry between each test with a good thorough shake in between each test. Now I am up to 14 drops of strawberry and 2 drops of em total, and still nothing.

 

[readeuler]

I feel your pain; you just want some way to taste the strawberry out of curiosity, dammit!

I do all my drop tests with a syringe. I mess up often enough from plunging too much, but I don't have any good droppers.

For testing single flavors, I tend to try 5%, 10%, and 15% to get a feel for how it varies with the percentage, using 20 total drops of VG and flavoring.

For this I don't involve any nic, just VG and flavor. 1 drop flavor, 19 drops VG for 5%, 2 and 18 for 10%, etc.

This is a nice way to get a feel for what % is good for the single flavor, and what it tastes like in general. I don't typically use EM during this, but you could, once you find a promising percentage of strawberry (and don't mind 5% or more EM). It's not a lot to taste, but it should be plenty for you to get a good idea of what you're dealing with.

Once you find a percent that's decent, I'd move on to 100 drops using any other flavors, nic, and PG if necessary. 1 drop = 1%.

Once I had found a good 100 drop recipe I liked, then I'd try a more full 10 or 20ml batch, to see how it ages over the next few days, vaping as desired. I tend to go with a higher percent of flavors and consequently don't find steeping necessary.

These are all "mix now, vape now" techniques, and probably wouldn't work well for low percentages, or things that really require steeping.

 

[Ryan Lee]

Lots of good info, thanks! I am not one to like waiting for a juice to steep either lol. But, later on down the road I won;t mind as much.

The things I dont understand is my local place makes a super sweet pink lemonade, and it requires no steeping whatsoever. It is so damn good, and super super sweet. I feel like my teeth are rotting when I vape it! But, I was going through 65 mils of it about every week, and that is what led me to my DIY adventures.

I gotta at least get one decent recipe down so I can stop buying juices, plus my nicotine is gonna be here Friday! But the odd thing is, I made a strawberry lemonade earlier, and it has a good throat hit with high vg and no nicotine. I may just make my juices with 0 nic as the only reason I ever wanted nic in my juice was for the throat hit. I started at 18mg last August, and now have been down at 6 for the last 5 months, mostly because I drip at sub ohm level mainly. But, if I am gonna get a throat hit from a 0 nic juice, than I may just be ok to go without, which in turn would be kind if a good thing!

 

[Rin13]

I've tried Capella's Sweet Strawberry before and it is good on it's own. 10-15%. I always steep my juices but for fruits it usually doesn't take longer than a week. It doesn't need sweetener or anything extra. EM has been said to dull flavors. If you have that in there, that may be what's taking its "pop" away.

 

[Ryan Lee]

I've tried Capella's Sweet Strawberry before and it is good on it's own. 10-15%. I always steep my juices but for fruits it usually doesn't take longer than a week. It doesn't need sweetener or anything extra. EM has been said to dull flavors. If you have that in there, that may be what's taking its "pop" away.

Ok I am going to make a 10mil batch of sweet strawberry at 15% with no em. Thank you for the advice, hope it turns out!

 

[Boletus]

I'm thinking that the add a drop, vape, add another drop, vape, etc. strategy might require a bit of time between each tasting, and maybe a drink or something to cleanse the palate. When you keep increasing by tiny amounts fairly continuously, you might not get the same punch (subjective difference) as you would by a more abrupt change. Kind of like how your eyes adjust to slow changes in light levels (e.g. a sunrise) vs. rapid ones (e.g. turning on a bright light). But that is just conjecture on my part.

 

[Ryan Lee]

Ya I never thought of it that way, and I think you are right. I will no longer be using this ridiculous methodology! I did mix the SS at 15% in a 70/30 nic-less blend, and it is pretty damn tasty. Still not as sweet as i was hoping, but maybe it will sweeten up more as it steeps.

Also made a 10 mil batch of 15% Capella V2 Vanilla Custard with 5% SS and 2% Smooth, and without steeping it is surprisingly good. I know custards take some time to steep, so I have high hopes for this "StrawNilla Custard!"

 

[fogging_katrider]

I totally agree with Rin13.
EM can really trash an otherwise decent mix, especially when you're hitting it with more than 2%. And so can smooth btw. EM is not a sweetner...it is more suited to taking away the sharpness of some flavors.
If you want sweetness, use sweetner no more than 1.5%. I prefer 0.5 to 1% sweetner if any at all.
fwiw and ime, more often than not, adding sour will wake up a fruit flavor much better than sweetening could.
hth

 

[Ryan Lee]

I totally agree with Rin13.
EM can really trash an otherwise decent mix, especially when you're hitting it with more than 2%. And so can smooth btw. EM is not a sweetner...it is more suited to taking away the sharpness of some flavors.
If you want sweetness, use sweetner no more than 1.5%. I prefer 0.5 to 1% sweetner if any at all.
fwiw and ime, more often than not, adding sour will wake up a fruit flavor much better than sweetening could.
hth

Good advice, I always thought em was added for sweetness, and I also heard that most companies cotton candy flavor juices are loaded with em. But the bad thing is, I ordered all of my flavors from Bull City, and they just so happened to be sold out of all their sweeteners. Even the sweet cream.

My SS at 15% stand alone is tasting quite good today. I did manage to get some sour, so I might throw in a drop or two in there to see if I can get it to pop! And my StrawNilla custard is starting to shine as well........must be patient though!

Thanks again for the input folks, have a wonderful Halloween and weekend!