Question posed to a local establishment

[db2k]

I wrote this letter to see if a local coffee house franchise would explicitly allow vaping in their locations.

I'll follow up with what they come back with. I'm hoping that we can tweak this letter to make it sort of a form letter to send out to our favorite local hot spots.

Explicit permission and even a vinyl "The use of personal vaporizers is allow here" window sticker they can place above the "No Smoking" sign seems like the logical progression.

Letter below...

Personal vaporizers (PVs), more commonly refereed to as e-cigarettes, are quickly becoming the go to devices as a "stop smoking" aide. I have been "vaping" for the past eight months. My first day with a PV was the last day I smoked a cigarette... and I had a 2-pack a day addiction.
This is starting to sound like spam, so I'll get on with it.

I am starting a local Dayton vaping club and we are looking for vaping friendly establishments in the Dayton area. Being a coffee lover, and a regular to Boston Stoker, I thought a BS would be the perfect place to hold monthly meet-ups.

However, as I always do, I would like permission before vaping inside any Boston Stoker establishment.

If you are unfamiliar with PVs, or e-cigs, let me briefly explain what they are...
The device consist of a battery and an atomizer. The device is generally the same size as a cigarette. When the the device is activated, the heating element in the atomizer rapidly boils a liquid consisting of pharmaceutical grade propylene glycol (PG) or vegetable glycerin (VG), distilled water, nicotine, and flavoring. (please do not confuse propylene glycol with diethylene glycol. PG is used in everything from food additives to pill casings. It's also the primary ingredient in theatrical fog) The user inhales the vapor and aerosoled flavor / nicotine, and exhales what is essentially just water vapor. Independent lab analysis has shown that no carcinogens are present in the exhaled vapor.

I have no vested interest in you allowing PV to be used inside your locations other than as a customer and "vaper".

The below link is for further reading. It was written by Bill Godshall, a leading proponent of indoor cigarette smoking bans and an account of his visit to a recent larger gathering of vapers. It also demonstrates his support for the further use of PVs.
Bill Godshal, Executive Director of Smokefree Pennsylvania
<I posted a link here, but my ECF post count isn't high enough to allow links>

I would be more than willing to stop by any location and demonstrate how a PV works for anyone that is new to the concept.

Thanks,
Scott

 

[ImYourSalt]

would love to hear how this turns out!

 

[jj2]

Great idea but I wouldn’t use “devices as a "stop smoking" aide”

Maybe an alternative to smoking.

 

[db2k]

Boston Stoker executive management has responded!


From Don Dean, President of Boston Stoker
<header removed>
EVERYONE IS WELCOME AT BOSTON STOKER. EVEN VAPERS.
don

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry


From Travis Qualls, Director of Retail Operations
<Header removed>
Scott,

Thank you for your letter. Boston Stoker takes pride in welcoming all individuals and groups as patrons to our stores provided that they are not practicing anything illicit, illegal, or bothersome to other customers. We feel that the local coffee shop is a place to express yourself as well as a place to get together with others.


Thank You,

Travis Qualls
Director of Retail Operations

 

[db2k]

This got me thinking about something that I had not considered.

Businesses that had a high population of smokers suffered economically when the smoking ban in Ohio went into law. Perhaps if businesses are made aware of vaping, and embrace it, we'll have that much more help in beating e-cig bans.

Perhaps businesses learned their lesson in not standing up to the smoking ban... and maybe this time they will stand against e-cig bans.

It can't hurt to try.

 

[kristin]

Thank you for your letter. Boston Stoker takes pride in welcoming all individuals and groups as patrons to our stores provided that they are not practicing anything illicit, illegal, or bothersome to other customers. We feel that the local coffee shop is a place to express yourself as well as a place to get together with others.


Thank You,

Travis Qualls
Director of Retail Operations

Unfortunately, that's going to be your problem right there. As soon as someone complains - bam - you're out.

 

[TropicalBob]

You're right, Kristin. And there will be complaints.

Would you stand up and blow bubbles in the place? Legal, sure. Bothersome to others? Yep. Same with our little pets.

 

[Thulium]

You're right, Kristin. And there will be complaints.

Would you stand up and blow bubbles in the place? Legal, sure. Bothersome to others? Yep. Same with our little pets.

I agree in spirit, but I would say that a well written letter to the owner of an establishment like the one above (except without claiming e-cigs are a "stop smoking aid" ) is a big step toward ensuring that they are NOT a nuisance to other customers.

In a coffee shop like that, the mystique of having the beatniks in the corner smoking a cigarette used to be part of the allure...until people got sick of choking on the carbon monoxide and tar in the air. If an owner is open minded enough and might consider added a "Vapers Welcome" above their requisite "no smoking" sign it could help bring our hobby out from the shadows and into the public perception as a stylish new way to enjoy tobacco without the nasty side effects of smoke.

 

[rtbob]

Yes, bubbles would actually be bothersome. When they land on you or your things and pop, they leave a sticky, soapy residue behind.

The vapor exhaled while using a PV, however, is only bothersome to control freaks and the ignorant.

The freaks can't stand the idea of anyone doing something that displeases them.

The ignorant think what your doing looks like smoking and their afraid that the vapor your exhaling might hurt them in some way.

There is help for both groups. Educate the ignorant. Shoot the freaks.

 

[thorn]

Improvement criticism: You mention "e-cigarettes" in the first line. I think "electronic cigarettes" would be a better wording. The addition of the "diethylene glycol" line seemed like it was put there to confuse them or give them more info than is required. The letter needs to be short and to the point to keep their interest enough to read the whole thing. Depending on cost, include the "Vapers Welcome" sign so they may immediately put it up.

 

[shanobi187]

I like the whole idea of this and was thinking of doing something similar in my neck of the woods. As of yet, the bar I frequent has three major bartenders, one of them said "it's not illegal so go for it", the second said, "a lady was in here with one of those and it stunk really bad" (don't know what juice she was vaping but she was apparently quite rude about it) and the third said "no, it makes the smokers angry because they can't... it's an imagery thing." the last comment really ticked me off as if they want one they can fork over the dough to get one. That's a lot like saying "you can't drink that tea here because it makes other people without money thirsty."

 

[kristin]

Sorry, I didn't mean to come off too harsh. It just seemed like a carefully worded response that reminded me how politicians talk out of both sides of their mouths. It wasn't really a "yes."

I don't want to disuade you and I think it's great that you take the initiaitive in contacting people and getting the word out!

 

[smokum]

Kudo's for working towards planning ahead by attempting to get establishment permission.

I would think that as an individual looking to organize a "group" meeting place within another's business place who may allow or consider allowing vaping there that the expense per place would be minimal enough for "you or you're group" to fork out a couple bucks necessary to provide that establishment with the necessary stickers at the entrance as well as possibly creating those folded light cardboard table cards (the ones that usually have advertising on them), to explain what the PV is for those how don't smoke (anti's), and those who have no idea what they are.

I think THAT would also aid the owner by saving him the hassle of constantly explaining whats going on as well as avoiding a visual misconception by smokers who would inadvertantly "light up" thinking that PV'ers were actaully smoking as well.

As always...... education is key, and putting it on every table will allow an ease of greif for all.

VapeOn,
Greg

 

[thorn]

...and the third said "no, it makes the smokers angry because they can't... it's an imagery thing." the last comment really ticked me off as if they want one they can fork over the dough to get one. That's a lot like saying "you can't drink that tea here because it makes other people without money thirsty."

That is the same as saying nobody can drink top shelf items anymore, because not everybody can afford them. Maybe explain to her that smokers CAN if they get the same equipment and that you use to be a smoker yourself.

 

[v1John]

I agree with thorn's idea in page 1 of the thread. Don't mention any names that would require a chemist.



Also, my opinion is that the letter should definitely at least request for a designated vaping section. Just because it's not illegal, it doesn't mean it's ok to play with fire. A couple, or a parent stopping by for a cup of coffee with their newborn shurely should not sit right in the middle of the vapers. It could be anyone, a local lawmaker's pregnant girfriend could be the one in the table in the middle of the vapers. Who knows. kristin also made a good point; I guess I'm just elaborating. Bothersome to others does not necessarily mean direct physical contact, it can include perceived psychological bothersomeness, but it legally does not have to be written in the reply letter that they sent you.

 

[River]

Jesus can you folks take at least two seconds to be glad that dude wrote a letter and got a positive responce?

I deal with people and solving their problems every day and nothing pisses me off like the ones that come up with what problems could maybe potentially possibly happen at some point down the road before they ever try to implement the first solution.

Sure some negative thing could happen but for right now what is happening is that he gets to vape in his favorite coffee shop.

This smoker mentality of shame will be the end of us.

Congrats man, you rock, send me an invite to the big vape off at the coffee shop I can't be that far from Troy OH.

 

[v1John]

Mostly my opinion is to implement the first solution requesting for a designated vaping area.

I am glad that vaping is not illegal in the U.S. yet, and I would like it to stay that way.

It is some progress, and I am glad it is, though.

 

[NatureBoy]

There is help for both groups. Educate the ignorant. Shoot the freaks.

LMAO..... omg, that's funny

 

[thorn]

River, we ARE glad that his coffee shop caters to him and his letter. I was responding to his request of possibly coming up with a standard letter that everyone could send out to their own local places. Hence why we're trying to rework the letter a little bit to be the least amount of confusing and to the point as can be so that more places will allow vaping and perhaps even be vaping friendly.

 

[DWTaylor]

It's good to see that they were willing to look it over, and allow you to do it, but I am with the others.
Look at the wording, they gave you the info ya wanted to hear with a almost yes.
Keep in mind it wasn't a real yes but it wasn't a no. Keep it up and if the rest of us have time, I suggest we do that with all the places we go to reg.
keep up the good work man.