Question Regarding Mech Circuits

[jolly_st_nic]

There is no data on what button press most accidents happen nor if it was a short circuit in the atty or an internally damaged/overstressed battery .... Let's not invent new myths without factual evidence.

The recorded cases where a vape exploded in someones face are rare, you read about them going off in people's pockets/purses (often it turns out it was loose batteries) or while charging far more often.

Are you sure the helpfulness of test-firing a mech away from your face after a mechanical change to the device is a myth? I get that there might not be data to show it is safer to do this, but I've been reading up on causes of shorts and, from what I have read, it's far more likely that you'll have a short from a faulty coil build than from a battery malfunction.

Here is one such claim from Mechanical Mod Won't Fire? Fix a Mech Mod With These Tips - eCig One :

"A short circuit is any situation in which electrical current flows along an unintended path. A short circuit could result in a variety of negative consequences such as an electrical shock or battery explosion. Of course, a short could also cause a mechanical mod not to fire. We’ve already discussed situations in which a damaged battery or fire button could cause a short. It’s far more common, though, for faulty coil builds to cause shorts. If your mechanical mod won’t fire, check the atomizer with a resistance tester. If the coil build worked previously, it may simply be that the mod was bumped or jostled, causing one of the coil leads to come out of its post. If the coil build has never worked, a coil may be touching the drip well or side of the RBA."

Now, if the coil build has never worked, it would most likely be much better to discover this with the mod pointed away from your face and head. Sure, it might work and then suddenly become unmounted if it is "bumped or jostled", but a certain percentage of accidents may involve the fact that the coil build is not safe from the start, in which case a test fire with mod pointed away from the head would allow for a somewhat safer examination of whether the the mech is shorted or an open circuit with greater potential to short. If bumping and jostling can cause this, how much more could bumping and jostling cause this after removing or replacing the top cap? It's common sense, isn't it?

The statistics might not prove what I am saying, but that doesn't make what I am saying a myth. I doubt one could find evidence that a mech mod is better off malfunctioning in the pocket or hand than in the face or head, but if I had to choose an accident I'd have it in my pocket, not pointed toward my head.

I do think this is worth discussion, and I welcome your comments. If I'm wrong, please tell me. I don't need to be right, but I do want to be as safe as possible. Also, I have noticed a lot of mech users test firing their coils. Why do they do this if not for safety?

 

[jolly_st_nic]

Or take this from an article I just read about that fatality in Florida (Man dies in e-cigarette explosion, police say - CNN) :

"Lithium ion batteries fail in other devices as well, but in a laptop, it's on your lap .... In this case, with an e-vapor product, it's close to the face."

That is an example of what experts are saying about the risks and dangers of mechs. Should we not assume that test-firing away from the face and head would be safer until otherwise demonstrated? Err on the side of caution? Is it wrong to infer from the mechanics of other devices like airplanes that oftentimes what goes wrong becomes obvious from the start, and not all of a sudden during use, and that testing changes to the device before use could lead to better safety and fewer fatalities?

 

[jolly_st_nic]

Never mind. I've thought about this, and I am correct. It is better to test your mech after changes to it with the mod held away from your face and head. That's not a myth. It's not a matter of statistics, it's just common sense. When you build or repair anything - a car, an airplane, or a mechanical mod, there are ways to test to see if it works without flying it, driving it, firing it - testing the voltage of car battery or, in the case of mechs, putting the atomizer on an ohmmeter. However, the ultimate test of whether it works is to actually use it and observe whether it functions correctly, and the first time you use it should be made as low-risk as possible. You start a car engine and perform common-sense low-speed tests after fixing the brakes before you drive it on the highway at 100 mph and pump the brake pedal; the inaugural flight of a new airplane is performed by the pilot alone, never with a plane full of passengers; when you build on an atomizer and want to see if your coil works, it's better to perform that test without the device attached to your head, which is very close to your brain - which you need in order to live. It is better to perform the test in your hand, away from your face and head.

A myth is only problematic if it makes things worse, more harmful, more dangerous. There is a myth that it's good for drains if you pour coffee grounds down them, but it actually clogs drains to do that because the grounds mix with oils. But what harm does my myth, if it is indeed a myth, cause? It could be a myth that you're not supposed to test fire, and arguably a more dangerous myth. It's not causing any harm that I can see to opt for the hand instead of the head on the first fire, and it might save your life in some scenarios. I have no statistics, but I don't think I need them. You might not be able to statistically prove that there is a higher chance of an airplane crash on its inaugural flight, but that doesn't mean that you perform that test with a cabin full of passengers. I say err on the side of caution. I will, in any case.

This is just monkeys in space sort of stuff. Before they sent humans, they sent monkeys to be sure they could send humans. I will continue to test fire in my "Bonzo" hand before I put the mech near my "Buzz Aldrin" brain. Unless there is a causal relationship between the first successful button press that results in a more dangerous second button press, my logic is sound .... but what reason do we have to believe that?

 

[Walee]

You'll know if it does. There will be a very short but loud boom!

When I die and they lay me to rest
Gonna go to the place that's the best
When I lay me down to die
Goin' up to the vape in the sky

 

[jolly_st_nic]

You'll know if it does. There will be a very short but loud boom!

When I die and they lay me to rest
Gonna go to the place that's the best
When I lay me down to die
Goin' up to the vape in the sky

But in the case of the single fatality that caused someone to go to vape heaven so far, that boom happened in close proximity to his head and they found the company logo for his mod lodged in his brain. I do think it's an important question: is it safer to test fire the mod? Away from the brain? Is the first push of the button after a new build the most dangerous? These are important questions that shouldn't be too hard to figure out, even without statistics. I want to use my Beacon, but I want it to remain not lodged in my frontal lobe.

I'll stand corrected if I'm wrong, like I said - it doesn't matter if I am right, it matters what is the safest thing to do.

 

[ScottP]

If a battery vents inside a mod, holding it away from you face can help. If it actually explodes then shrapnel is going to go everywhere and that little of a proximity difference (arm's length) isn't going to make a lot of difference.

It is best to find out if there is a problem with the atomizer on some sort of PROTECTED device. Either an Ohm Meter or regulated mod with ohm meter built in.

 

[jolly_st_nic]

If a battery vents inside a mod, holding it away from you face can help. If it actually explodes then shrapnel is going to go everywhere and that little of a proximity difference (arm's length) isn't going to make a lot of difference.

It is best to find out if there is a problem with the atomizer on some sort of PROTECTED device. Either an Ohm Meter or regulated mod with ohm meter built in.

Yeah, that idea makes sense, thanks. I'll do that with new builds.

I've been reading about this topic tonight. There is this collection of reports of e cigarette explosions:

E-Cigarette Explosions: Comprehensive List - eCig One

I've learned that 1) it is rare for explosions to happen, 2) as was stated in an earlier post by untar, most explosions occur during charging or when in pockets, and 3) a significant number, but not the majority, of these cases, happened during the very first button press (I counted 10 to 12 reports out of 274 that mention malfunction on the first press, often in the face). Still, I haven't seen it explicitly stated anywhere to test fire your mod away from your head, but it seems to be a good idea.

Maybe someone with more experience can chime in. I'm going to test-fire my first button presses away from my face, but we've all got our own way of vaping, take our own risks, balance safety and convenience for ourselves.

 

[dripster]

Yeah, that idea makes sense, thanks. I'll do that with new builds.

I've been reading about this topic tonight. There is this collection of reports of e cigarette explosions:

E-Cigarette Explosions: Comprehensive List - eCig One

I've learned that 1) it is rare for explosions to happen, 2) as was stated in an earlier post by untar, most explosions occur during charging or when in pockets, and 3) a significant number, but not the majority, of these cases, happened during the very first button press (I counted 10 to 12 reports out of 274 that mention malfunction on the first press, often in the face). Still, I haven't seen it explicitly stated anywhere to test fire your mod away from your head, but it seems to be a good idea.

Maybe someone with more experience can chime in. I'm going to test-fire my first button presses away from my face, but we've all got our own way of vaping, take our own risks, balance safety and convenience for ourselves.

Verify that the coils are firmly secured into the postholes or clamps and that they won't get displaced in any way that can cause them to come into contact with the build deck or the inside of the cap, but don't overtighten the screws and don't let the screw threads get stripped. Always avoid stray pieces of metal, before the first use and after that. Educate yourself on the various subjects of coil build stability, the accuracy vs inaccuracy of different ohms readers. Do not use a coil build or atomizer that looks like it could have survived a plane crash. You have a brain. Use it.

Prior to first use, unassemble every part of the mech and visually inspect each part from top to bottom, meticulously, inside and outside. Even a really very tiny piece of metal debris that results from the machining and that might be lurking inside a vent hole that's in the button or something like that can turn into an accident waiting to happen. Fully understand the mechanics, familiarize yourself with them thoroughly. As part of regular maintenance, look for possible damage in every place, and especially in every place where you don't expect it. Murphy's law is more important than Ohm's law because everything that can go wrong eventually does go wrong. If you take everything properly into account, you can vape at 130% above the CDR of your single VTC5A. You certainly can't do it without accepting some added risk. Despite this, still assmuming you REALLY take everything properly into account, as opposed to merely THINK that you take everything properly into account, the risk of falling victim to scaremongerers on an internet forum is a million times higher than the risk of venting something.
Now, if you folks don't mind I am going to thermally run away from this thread because I have better things to do, like, chain vape at .11 ohms on a single VTC5A in my mech.

 

[jolly_st_nic]

I will check everything, like you said, and thanks for the advice. And you will forgive me, I hope, for never putting my head anywhere near .11 ohms on a single battery mech. Scaremonger or not, I'd be spooked by that level of risk, and, as a mere mortal and non-chaser of clouds, I've never found a good reason to go much over 50 watts on even a regulated mod - usually used a mere 35 watts or less. But why build so low with so few amps? I get the 100 watt massive cloud thing, but why not on a two battery setup? I'm sure there must be reasons?

 

[dripster]

My own personal approach is to turn unknown factors into known factors and still end up having enough safety margin for me to be capable to disarm my mech mod in a safe fashion and without panic in the rare event that the mod starts to auto-fire on me unexpectedly, and to always avoid any and all accidental button presses the same way you can always avoid driving yourself off a cliff. On a "faux hybrid" (i.e. direct-to-battery) mech, the battery can get pressed against the inside of the top of the mod if, before you unscrew the button, you unscrew the atomizer... thereby potentially causing a hard short followed by a battery explosion. But this can always be avoided by simply always remembering to unscrew the button instead. But if the mod starts to auto-fire and then you panic as a result from that, you might not remember this. So either you have to be sure that you won't panic or else you can get a mech that uses a 510 pin such as the Broadside. Only if you're the type of person who easily starts to panic or who has trouble remembering important stuff, like, for example, trouble remembering that you should never ever screw on an atomizer that doesn't have a protruding center pin excepting only if your mech mod isn't a faux hybrid, you should probably stay away from mechs in general. I mean, going above the CDR makes the battery heat up faster so you'll have less time to react in case something goes wrong with the mod. But not everyone knows how to react correctly, and not everyone knows how to always stay alert and to always notice it on time so therein lies part of the culprit.

Another surefire way to make accidents happen by going above the CDR are people who don't understand when it's time to put the mod down and give it a rest. The higher you go above the CDR, the faster the battery heats up. But for reasons that are obvious, immediately as soon as you let go of the fire button, the battery cools back down again. If you're not familiar with the relationship between how fast a given battery heats up and how many amps you draw from this same battery for how many seconds, just pull out the battery each time when in doubt. Feel how warm it gets. As long as you don't immediately build to ridiculously low ohms, as long as your coil build is stable and your ohms reader is sufficiently accurate, if you can understand everything I have been explaining so far, you can familiarize yourself with all these factors. Using a .11 ohms build on a single Sony VTC5A is way above the CDR of 25A for this battery. Does that make it so unsafe that you'd have to be a jackass? Hell no, it doesn't. Even after you take like 5 hits in a row each one of which lasts almost 2 seconds, the Sony VTC5A in a single battery mech at .11 ohms gets barely even lukewarm. Above 45 degrees Celsius is where a battery starts aging faster than normal. 35A is not the CDR of the Sony VTC5A. Instead, it is only 25A. Despite this, the VTC5A is rated by Sony to 35A Maximum Continuous Discharge Current IF you make absolutely perfectly sure that it stays below 80 degrees Celsius. You do get an increased risk of the battery venting if you go above the CDR. You really do, but my question is, does it take to be a rocket scientist to make the battery always stay below 45 degrees Celsius so that you still have time to react appropriately before it can ever get to 80 degrees Celsius? You be the judge. Finally, because the Samsung 20S has a CDR of 30A and because it is hitting so much harder than the VTC5A... well, you get the picture.

 

[AttyPops]

Maybe someone with more experience can chime in. I'm going to test-fire my first button presses away from my face, but we've all got our own way of vaping, take our own risks, balance safety and convenience for ourselves.

I'd think that some variation of "square of the distance" rule would apply to your point. We're still talking about a radius, sphere, and projectiles...be they photons, other particles, or projectile pieces. So the farther away you are, the lower your chances of getting hit by a piece of something. After all, that's why target shooting gets more difficult at greater and greater distances...small variation makes large variation further out. Heck, if you're in a location that you build-coils in, and you want to "test fire" and aren't using the other tools (and you should be), put your arm around a corner...a doorway or something. Put something between you and the mod. If you're that worried. But the ohm-meter and/or smart-mod should check the resistance.

Then there's the "plane" of orientation. E.G. how much material flies in what plane. If it "goes boom" it could be any plane, but I'd bet the majority of material would fly parallel to the orientation of the tube. So there's logic to the "distance/orientation" thing, IMO.

That said...how much is this all a false sense of security anyway? I'd MUCH rather have a regulated mod. They can put out the watts now-a-days. AND they have built-in smarts. Keep a mech around for "emergencies", but if you're this worried about it, why not just use a regulated mod with built in checks?

And to Spey's point, a regulated mod can have a positive center pin AND, at the same time, orient the battery with the button/+ side pointed away from the user, and vent holes pointed away from the user. Circuitry can do that, easy peasy. The mod I use is designed that way, FWIW.

 

[jolly_st_nic]

Ok, you know more than I do about this, but I can at least follow what you're saying. I am using an AWT 40A IMR battery with a 1.67 ohm build, so I'm drawing, at very most, a whopping 2.6 amps from that battery, which says it can handle 40A maximum discharge, so I am guessing I'm well below the CDR. If you are a professional racecar driver going full speed round the bend, I am in a Lincoln Continental crawling down the street at 5 mph, occasionally stopping to make sure I don't run over a kitten. I don't say that to downplay the risks I am also undertaking, since there's plenty that can go wrong that has nothing to do with the resistance of the coil or nominal amp rating of the battery, but I prefer to keep things as safe as possible - for me, the risks of using a mech are risks I'm willing to incur, but I want to minimize the risks as much as possible - just like what you are doing when you check the positive pin before you screw it on a hybrid, monitor the tactile feel of the temperature of the battery, think about what part to remove in a panic, disassemble and clean the mech. So, one thing I have wondered is, why do experienced modders that I have seen on youtube and the like - why do those people hold the mech away from their face and test fire? I have seen this a few times. Is that to test for safety? Should I be doing that too? Is there a sound reason for doing it? You know, when we read on the internet about mech mods, that's a resource with origins in a ton of experimentation, research, testing, inventing, theorizing, questioning. So while some, like me, might just be getting started, I think it's doubly important that we be able to ask these questions and find answers, even if we have to answer for ourselves. It could actually be safer to test fire, no? Oh well, I guess I'll just test fire and consider it something that gives me at least the feeling that I'm not at risk. It's very rare, in any case, for something to go so wrong that injury or death results. It's actually not very risky at all, after a look at the numbers. Cheers.

 

[Topwater Elvis]

In a conversation about safe mechanical use I think mooch's blogs should always be included
--->Mooch's blog | E-Cigarette Forum

It makes no difference at your 2.6a draw but your AWT cell is a rewrap falsely labeled cell no where near its claimed 40a CDR.

Safe mechanical use 101, know basic battery selection & safety.
Avoid rewrap erroneously labeled cells, buy only from known reputable dealers/vendors.

 

[jolly_st_nic]

I'll put a fresh Samsung 25R in it. Thanks for the heads up. Are INR batteries safe enough in mech mods?

 

[dripster]

Ok, you know more than I do about this, but I can at least follow what you're saying. I am using an AWT 40A IMR battery with a 1.67 ohm build, so I'm drawing, at very most, a whopping 2.6 amps from that battery, which says it can handle 40A maximum discharge, so I am guessing I'm well below the CDR. If you are a professional racecar driver going full speed round the bend, I am in a Lincoln Continental crawling down the street at 5 mph, occasionally stopping to make sure I don't run over a kitten. I don't say that to downplay the risks I am also undertaking, since there's plenty that can go wrong that has nothing to do with the resistance of the coil or nominal amp rating of the battery, but I prefer to keep things as safe as possible - for me, the risks of using a mech are risks I'm willing to incur, but I want to minimize the risks as much as possible - just like what you are doing when you check the positive pin before you screw it on a hybrid, monitor the tactile feel of the temperature of the battery, think about what part to remove in a panic, disassemble and clean the mech. So, one thing I have wondered is, why do experienced modders that I have seen on youtube and the like - why do those people hold the mech away from their face and test fire? I have seen this a few times. Is that to test for safety? Should I be doing that too? Is there a sound reason for doing it? You know, when we read on the internet about mech mods, that's a resource with origins in a ton of experimentation, research, testing, inventing, theorizing, questioning. So while some, like me, might just be getting started, I think it's doubly important that we be able to ask these questions and find answers, even if we have to answer for ourselves. It could actually be safer to test fire, no? Oh well, I guess I'll just test fire and consider it something that gives me at least the feeling that I'm not at risk. It's very rare, in any case, for something to go so wrong that injury or death results. It's actually not very risky at all, after a look at the numbers. Cheers.

There are no 18650 batteries above 30A. The best available 30A 18650 right now is the Samsung 20S, and, if you want 35A, just grab the Samsung 30T (21700). If you want to keep things as safe as possible, then stay away from vaping altogether, and also stay away from driving a car. Don't even walk across the street either, for that matter. I'm not downplaying the risks. I'm just knowing them, understanding them in full, and then finally accepting them after that. Not trying to suggest anyone else should do the same. I can make jokes about that sometimes, sure, but I never actually recommend going above the CDR, because there might be unknown factors. So when I turn unknown factors into known ones, that only aplies to me, personally. I can't look after someone else vaping. Those aren't my decisions to make. I'm not "Stem" from the movie titled "Upgrade" (2018). Decent movie IMO anyway. But it is still just a movie. Different from actual reality. But questions need answers, and answers will be different depending on who you ask. It's good to recommend safety. That's why I recommend to stay at or below the CDR, after which I'll just let you find your own path, and, also I recommend going to Mooch's blog, and to visit his personal YouTube channel (where he goes by the name of Battery Mooch).

So is there a reason for test firing away from your face? Yeah, it's because if the test goes wrong it can make you go blind or maybe worse, and, the logical reason to safely test something would be to safely find out whether something does go wrong or not, plain simple. Agreed it isn't very risky if you did everything correct, and that is assuming that you did do that. But even then it isn't without risk. Everyone should decide for theirselves how far they want to take it.

 

[dripster]

I'd think that some variation of "square of the distance" rule would apply to your point. We're still talking about a radius, sphere, and projectiles...be they photons, other particles, or projectile pieces. So the farther away you are, the lower your chances of getting hit by a piece of something. After all, that's why target shooting gets more difficult at greater and greater distances...small variation makes large variation further out. Heck, if you're in a location that you build-coils in, and you want to "test fire" and aren't using the other tools (and you should be), put your arm around a corner...a doorway or something. Put something between you and the mod. If you're that worried. But the ohm-meter and/or smart-mod should check the resistance.

Then there's the "plane" of orientation. E.G. how much material flies in what plane. If it "goes boom" it could be any plane, but I'd bet the majority of material would fly parallel to the orientation of the tube. So there's logic to the "distance/orientation" thing, IMO.

That said...how much is this all a false sense of security anyway? I'd MUCH rather have a regulated mod. They can put out the watts now-a-days. AND they have built-in smarts. Keep a mech around for "emergencies", but if you're this worried about it, why not just use a regulated mod with built in checks?

And to Spey's point, a regulated mod can have a positive center pin AND, at the same time, orient the battery with the button/+ side pointed away from the user, and vent holes pointed away from the user. Circuitry can do that, easy peasy. The mod I use is designed that way, FWIW.

It isn't just about the power output IMO. IMO regulated mods simply just suck when compared to how a mech mod vapes, and, if that hadn't been true, then hardly anyone would be using a mech because then all that's left of how a mech vapes differently is just the fact the vape grows weaker with every hit you take. Lest you are saying everyone who is a fan of how a mech vapes must be delusional.

As for the safety, Mooch says you have to assume that the built-in safety features of a regulated mod are not going to work. Now, I know there will automatically be those who are hovering their mouse over the "disagree" button, because it happens all the time. But before they decide to actually click on it, I urge them to watch Mooch's videos, and watch them carefully, and only THEN decide about what good those built-in safety features truly are, if not to hide your own lack of in-depth knowledge about safety behind them? A picture of Jack Nicholson about the truth and what you can handle springs to mind.

 

[AttyPops]

Lest you are saying everyone who is a fan of how a mech vapes must be delusional.

No no no. Delusional is certainly not a term I implied or used.

I'm "just say'n" ( ) that if you're so worried about explosions that you have to have 50 procedures just to change a coil or a battery (and you SHOULD have some definite ones), maybe the regulated world is just...safer.

I think the OP and others are THINKING about this stuff. They're pondering. Kudos to you and them. They know it's a rare thing, and they also are thinking about precautions. But at a certain point, I think it's closer to hitting your head against a wall. There's certainly many ways to build coils and get a hit off of a vape device, and if you're losing sleep over news reports of mech explosions, extending your arm out every other vape just to test fire your scary-might-be-a-grenade-mech, that you change batteries on several times per day to get consistency, maybe consider another option!

I don't want to hijack Santa's thread in a mech vs regulated war. (I like Santa! Don't mess with those saints!) To each their own. However, the consistency and features of higher wattage regulated devices, that have tools such as ohm readers built in, may be appealing to those that are losing sleep over the foibles of shorted mech coils. And you won't get tennis elbow...at least not from the changing-coils-part. It's not a better vs best argument, it's an anti-anxiety argument.

I wouldn't mind a mech to put underground in the 1950's fallout shelter, right next to the emergency radio that's wrapped in aluminum-foil and in a metal box, next to the solar-powered ohm meter and the MRE's. But it would gather dust, I'm afraid, waiting on Mad-Max-Time. That's me, not necessarily you/yours. Like I say, to each their own.

But before they decide to actually click on it, I urge them to watch Mooch's videos, and watch them carefully, and only THEN decide about what good those built-in safety features truly are, if not to hide your own lack of in-depth knowledge about safety behind them? A picture of Jack Nicholson about the truth and what you can handle springs to mind.

Mooch's video's are fantastic. That movie ref, though, is not a hook you want to hang your argument-hat on. He was court-martialed after that tirade (and was in the wrong).

Safety features don't imply a lack of knowledge or even complacency. Even rocket scientists wear their seat-belts. Maybe even moreso for rocket scientists.

 

[dripster]

No no no. Delusional is certainly not a term I implied or used.

I'm "just say'n" ( ) that if you're so worried about explosions that you have to have 50 procedures just to change a coil or a battery (and you SHOULD have some definite ones), maybe the regulated world is just...safer.

I think the OP and others are THINKING about this stuff. They're pondering. Kudos to you and them. They know it's a rare thing, and they also are thinking about precautions. But at a certain point, I think it's closer to hitting your head against a wall. There's certainly many ways to build coils and get a hit off of a vape device, and if you're losing sleep over news reports of mech explosions, extending your arm out every other vape just to test fire your scary-might-be-a-grenade-mech, that you change batteries on several times per day to get consistency, maybe consider another option!

I don't want to hijack Santa's thread in a mech vs regulated war. (I like Santa! Don't mess with those saints!) To each their own. However, the consistency and features of higher wattage regulated devices, that have tools such as ohm readers built in, may be appealing to those that are losing sleep over the foibles of shorted mech coils. And you won't get tennis elbow...at least not from the changing-coils-part. It's not a better vs best argument, it's an anti-anxiety argument.

I wouldn't mind a mech to put underground in the 1950's fallout shelter, right next to the emergency radio that's wrapped in aluminum-foil and in a metal box, next to the solar-powered ohm meter and the MRE's. But it would gather dust, I'm afraid, waiting on Mad-Max-Time. That's me, not necessarily you/yours. Like I say, to each their own.

Mooch's video's are fantastic. That movie ref, though, is not a hook you want to hang your argument-hat on. He was court-martialed after that tirade (and was in the wrong).

Safety features don't imply a lack of knowledge or even complacency. Even rocket scientists wear their seat-belts. Maybe even moreso for rocket scientists.

My point was if you can be happy with a regulated mod or you just don't trust yourself with a mech, well then that's that I guess, but you have to learn the basics about safety either way so, once that's all properly taken care of, why should you stop with educating yourself about the safety further? Anxiety either is caused by a psychological condition, in which case seeking professional help would be the best option, or it's just about being afraid of something you don't know or don't know enough about. To tell a person maybe it's time to stop wanting to know enough about something making it sound like it must be too complicated is not an anti-anxiety argument. Rather, it is the exact opposite. You're never too old to learn something new. Even Santa isn't that old. (I checked his age when I was a kid. ) Just take it slow if that's what it takes to finally pull it off. Remember, nobody is forcing anyone to do anything.

The Jack Nicholson reference I made in my previous reply was because you're the one trying to hide the truth by trying to make it sound like the OP might not be able to handle the truth, as you're just trying to stop him from wanting to poke his nose in the area around mechs. Safety features imply nothing. But it's easy to hide your own lack of knowledge about what safety features can or can't do, and why. I.e., by constantly telling everyone around you how incredibly safe these features are when compared to mech use. Old scaremongering tactic is old.

 

[AttyPops]

as you're just trying to stop him from wanting to poke his nose in the area around mechs.

Just so you know, I'm not trying to stop him from doing any such thing.

As to the rest, I think you jumped to a couple of conclusions, but oh well.

 

[r055co]

My point was if you can be happy with a regulated mod or you just don't trust yourself with a mech, well then that's that I guess, but you have to learn the basics about safety either way so, once that's all properly taken care of, why should you stop with educating yourself about the safety further? Anxiety either is caused by a psychological condition, in which case seeking professional help would be the best option, or it's just about being afraid of something you don't know or don't know enough about. To tell a person maybe it's time to stop wanting to know enough about something making it sound like it must be too complicated is not an anti-anxiety argument. Rather, it is the exact opposite. You're never too old to learn something new. Even Santa isn't that old. (I checked his age when I was a kid. ) Just take it slow if that's what it takes to finally pull it off. Remember, nobody is forcing anyone to do anything.

The Jack Nicholson reference I made in my previous reply was because you're the one trying to hide the truth by trying to make it sound like the OP might not be able to handle the truth, as you're just trying to stop him from wanting to poke his nose in the area around mechs. Safety features imply nothing. But it's easy to hide your own lack of knowledge about what safety features can or can't do, and why. I.e., by constantly telling everyone around you how incredibly safe these features are when compared to mech use. Old scaremongering tactic is old.

Personally I feel much more safer on a Mech for I'm responsible for my own safety. Not some chip mass produced in a Factory with slave wage workers.

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