Questions about Clone Quality and Ethics - Help a vet ;-)

[lasttango]

I know this topic has been addressed and explored a lot - and I have spent days reading through to avoid asking it again and again... but two very specific questions...

I am having a problem buying a clone for 2 reasons... and only two reasons because I will just assume if I ask if they are safe... that I'll get a multitude of responses that will ultimately result in learning the answer is yes and no....

so... question #1: I am afraid that if I got a clone that things that are important to me like fit and finish... the action of the firing button, connections and threading could be subpar quality... is this typical?

#2 - I have a problem with the whole ethical thing... like... I suppose I could afford a $250 mod... I am in my 40's... have 9 years of college a steady job and I have the dough in my budget for an anti-smoking pleasure device ;-)

so, I keep going back and forth trying to decide if cloning at this point stimulates the market or completely robs pioneer/inventor...

again, I know answers vary... but this seriously weighs on my conscious... thoughts?

Thanks, LT

 

[roflwaffles]

1. Most clones nowadays are of good quality, generally you can just hunt for reviews on the manufacturer or their model.

2. Only you can answer that for yourself.

 

[PaulBHC]

Been pondering this same ethics thing myself today. Everything I have now is not a clone. The whole thing with evolv and the DNA board clones is what got me thinking about this.

 

[Stosh]

1) Some clones are more reliable than the original, it varies by individual model

2) All the mech mods are "clones" of the Coppers being done in the Modders Forum when we started vaping, just shinier.

 

[minimalsaint]

I have a prediction:
Someone will comment on intellectual copyrights and how clones are evil.
Someone will comment on how dumb it is to pay $200 for a tube and a switch.

I have a simple rule I follow when I buy equipment....
I give my money to an original manufacturer so that he can pay his bills, take care of his family, and maybe take his wife out to dinner at a nice restaurant. So their kids can play sports, join the marching band or take a dance class.

As to quality, I dare not speculate.

I wish you luck. Hopefully it doesn't get too deep in here!

 

[Ed_C]

I really didn't like the idea of "clones", but finally gave in to a copper/red Stingray. For my , I doubt if it really hurts many of the original builders, as most seem to sell all the mods that they make and it's really a different market. I'm totally speculating here, but it may even help improve their sells. As to how they feel about it, I would imagine that some are POed and some might feel that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Who knows? Like it or not, getting your mod cloned does indicate that your product has been well received. I think I read someplace that one builder posted that his mods are now being cloned on his FB page. All that being said, I still cannot help but feel that on some level they are kind of cheesey.
I've said this before, but there's not many options for interesting mods, that aren't clones, in the <$100 price range. I looked and I just couldn't find anything that I liked well enough to want to buy.

 

[Bad Ninja]

To each their own

I have about 20 mechs
All clones.

I could had a real surefire king and a real kayfun lite for the same money, and not have the guilt of owning clones...
Oh wait...those are clones too!...lol.

 

[lasttango]

Thanks for the thoughtful responses so far... I read a thing or two that I hadn't considered.

 

[edyle]

I know this topic has been addressed and explored a lot - and I have spent days reading through to avoid asking it again and again... but two very specific questions...

I am having a problem buying a clone for 2 reasons... and only two reasons because I will just assume if I ask if they are safe... that I'll get a multitude of responses that will ultimately result in learning the answer is yes and no....

so... question #1: I am afraid that if I got a clone that things that are important to me like fit and finish... the action of the firing button, connections and threading could be subpar quality... is this typical?

#2 - I have a problem with the whole ethical thing... like... I suppose I could afford a $250 mod... I am in my 40's... have 9 years of college a steady job and I have the dough in my budget for an anti-smoking pleasure device ;-)

so, I keep going back and forth trying to decide if cloning at this point stimulates the market or completely robs pioneer/inventor...

again, I know answers vary... but this seriously weighs on my conscious... thoughts?

Thanks, LT

3:
Isn't this the wrong forum?

1:
I expect low price and low quality would be typical with clones of any device, APV related or not.

2:
A mind is such a precious thing to waste; one of the worst thing a person can do to themselves is spend time thinking negative and worry about something which they don't even need to worry about;
I'd say just go the the source and get a fully genuine brand of something, complete with a warranty, and spend your mind on something productive.
Those of us on a tighter budget will get the cheap stuff and deal with trying to make them work.

 

[kungfujesus]

Ethics: What ethics? They got cloned because they wanted to make their crap in a Chinese factory instead of an American/British/German one. Its their own fault they're cloned for using Chinese labor and machines. Notice the clones made with AMERICAN labor and machines aren't cloned??? Provari clone doesn't exist because its an American made tube and an american made circuit board.

When people get cloned its because they basically sell their device to a Chinese labor force that gets FREE training and specs/dimensions. If somebody trained you to build something for free and international patents were near impossible to uphold... wouldn't you do the same?

The labor force/machine shops in China don't just sit around sniping people's inventions. They copy what they are trained to build already. If they go that route they made their own fate. It has nothing to do with the consumer's ethics. It is an inherent risk in the business model and they have planned ahead well enough to deal with the clones stealing their profits. They pay pennies on the dollar for Chinese labor so don't worry they're making plenty of cash before and after the clones hit the market. Its all made in China anyway so who cares if it is a clone!!!!

Quality: Clones are much cheaper because they do not require R&D. They're simply cheaper for this reason but not lower quality. In some cases the clone is actually higher quality than the original.

Don't be shocked if your clone does the exact same thing as the genuine device. It happens every day.


If you really care about ethics, adopt a puppy and go to Church after you buy a Provari. Enjoy.

 

[Ed_C]

Ethics: What ethics? They got cloned because they wanted to make their crap in a Chinese factory instead of an American/British/German one. Its their own fault they're cloned for using Chinese labor and machines.

I don't understand this comment. The original mods aren't made in Chinese factories. No high-end mod that I'm aware of is made in China.

 

[Bad Ninja]

I don't understand this comment. The original mods aren't made in Chinese factories. No high-end mod that I'm aware of is made in China.

Are you sure?
Or are you taking someone's word or it that is selling you a $200 luxury item?

Remember the ONI debacle? No?
Every vaper buying mechs should research the ONI fiasco.

 

[minimalsaint]

Ethics: What ethics? They got cloned because they wanted to make their crap in a Chinese factory instead of an American/British/German one. Its their own fault they're cloned for using Chinese labor and machines. Notice the clones made with AMERICAN labor and machines aren't cloned??? Provari clone doesn't exist because its an American made tube and an american made circuit board.

When people get cloned its because they basically sell their device to a Chinese labor force that gets FREE training and specs/dimensions. If somebody trained you to build something for free and international patents were near impossible to uphold... wouldn't you do the same?

The labor force/machine shops in China don't just sit around sniping people's inventions. They copy what they are trained to build already. If they go that route they made their own fate. It has nothing to do with the consumer's ethics. It is an inherent risk in the business model and they have planned ahead well enough to deal with the clones stealing their profits. They pay pennies on the dollar for Chinese labor so don't worry they're making plenty of cash before and after the clones hit the market. Its all made in China anyway so who cares if it is a clone!!!!

Quality: Clones are much cheaper because they do not require R&D. They're simply cheaper for this reason but not lower quality. In some cases the clone is actually higher quality than the original.

Don't be shocked if your clone does the exact same thing as the genuine device. It happens every day.


If you really care about ethics, adopt a puppy and go to Church after you buy a Provari. Enjoy.

........come again?

 

[porkchopbun]

I want to buy at least one real one, but

1. it's not in stock or two, resellers want ridiculous prices for them esp:
* my dog use as sex toy once, I only used it for a year, and drop it and it was run over mac truck...asking 90% of the value or the worse
limited edition red copper sting ray, only asking gazillion dollars. Hard to find, 0 feed back etc.

if you visit any online vendors and the mod that people want are , sold out, out of stock, etc..e-mail for back in stock.

so I have to buy clones, but my experiences and headaches, I try to help ECF peeps with their quirks when I can and recommend etc. I just got lucky and scored pretty new atomic RBD on classifieds.

 

[Ed_C]

Are you sure?
Or are you taking someone's word or it that is selling you a $200 luxury item?

Remember the ONI debacle? No?
Every vaper buying mechs should research the ONI fiasco.

Well I wouldn't say I'm sure because I haven't visited any of their facilities, but I've yet to hear any allegations that suggest that any high-end mod manufacturing was taking place in China. I wouldn't be shocked if it was, but you'd think you would have heard something about it.

 

[Bad Ninja]

Well I wouldn't say I'm sure because I haven't visited any of their facilities, but I've yet to hear any allegations that suggest that any high-end mod manufacturing was taking place in China. I wouldn't be shocked if it was, but you'd think you would have heard something about it.

Well the ONI mod was pre sold as a $150+ usa made device, but turned out to be a $15 chinese clone.



Also $200 for a Filipino made mod?
"Precision Filipino machining and engineering"?
No offense but .........?
Labor is cheaper than in China!
Somethin smells fishy and it ain't the shrimp flavored e juice.

 

[Unclefunkle]

High cost does not automatically mean high quality. And before purchasing a clone, research it. Someone said don't waste your mind power and just get the original, well i find I do more research when I am buying an expensive product regardless what it is than i do a cheaper product. Buying a car, LOTS of research for the amount of money it costs. Either way, research is your friend. Just remember, High cost, does not always equal high quality.

 

[pt91]

I have a prediction:
Someone will comment on intellectual copyrights and how clones are evil.
Someone will comment on how dumb it is to pay $200 for a tube and a switch.

I have a simple rule I follow when I buy equipment....
I give my money to an original manufacturer so that he can pay his bills, take care of his family, and maybe take his wife out to dinner at a nice restaurant. So their kids can play sports, join the marching band or take a dance class.

As to quality, I dare not speculate.

I wish you luck. Hopefully it doesn't get too deep in here!

I tend to agree. I support the innovators. Without them what progress do we make. So many bottom feeders take advantage of cheap labor and no R and D. Just like Walmart.

I will admit that I have one clone that I bought locally and used it because I travel to a country that can and will confiscate my h/w, fine me and possibly imprison me for two years. My favorites are pretty much irreplaceable so I bought a not so cheap clone just in case. I now longer carry a grand or more in devices when I travel there on business. So far I have been lucky.

Honestly the gap in a clones and authentic mods/attys seems to be getting a little close if you look hard. You can always look for a second hand original mod and pick it up for not much more than the clone in some cases. Just my opinion.

 

[minimalsaint]

For tube mechs, I preferred the Greek mods.
Gus makes beautiful mods that haven't been cloned and are not only available, but affordable. The only tube I ever regretted getting rid of was my Gus.
Next is the Atmizoo roller. I've seen similar "clones" of this but nothing even comes close. Fantastic design, flawless finish, brilliant threading, and a button that is second to none. I miss this one on occasion as well. Also, the Lab. In stock, fairly priced.
And then there's MMV. Makers of the Poldiac, Temon and DID. Poldi has been cloned, but they all seem to be plagued with issues. The Temon was my first mech and I adored it. Poldiacs are gorgeous works of art that perform amazingly and can be purchased at this very moment in several variations to suit your taste. A few months back they were selling the Poldi V1 for $100 and you could even get it engraved for free.

 

[porkchopbun]

Well the ONI mod was pre sold as a $150+ usa made device, but turned out to be a $15 chinese clone.



Also $200 for a Filipino made mod?
"Precision Filipino machining and engineering"?
No offense but .........?
Labor is cheaper than in China!
Somethin smells fishy and it ain't the shrimp flavored e juice.

I agree with you on some on the Filphino mods, I do have one authentic mod, but it's not much to talk about, the delrin 510 connection wasn't even cut perfect, so of the left over pieces were hanging out. I had to sand the inside on the positive connection tube because it was tearing the plastic on battery and finally a kick in the ballz, i ripped the firing pin threading on it. I bought HCigar clone of the same model and Frankenstein it.

I notice competitors in Pinoy mods are now advertising 100% made in Philippines where some don't state it.