questions and confusion about DiY before i get started....

Status
Not open for further replies.

kas122461

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Jun 15, 2013
5,211
30,631
63
Indiana, USA
this was a big waste of money. Again.

i mixed all my flavors at 3, 10 and 20%

where the heck is the flavor?

i feel like i was fooled to waste this money. for $130 i could have gotten a lot of stash eliquid packed with flavor.

this diy is a joke.

and most diy'ers told me to start at 3%. I don't get it. maybe my tastebuds are shot from too many years smoking??

i got french vanilla's
peanut butters
cinnamon roll/bun flavors
lotta latte
and lucky shot

they all have a hint of flavor.
none were good at 3%, some were ok at 10% but nothing to scream home about.
nothing worth mixing up to vape all day.

this is a huge discouragement.. does any one mix over 20%?

everything was off at all percentages so i don't even have a clue what to do next. all i know is i need more flavor.

i don't know why it's so discouraging. why does smoking have to be so simple. i've been 2 months smoke free and all i want is a freaking cigarette and to throw all this crud in the trash. it's getting too complicated. i got diy stuff every where. i can't believe i wasted my money on this. i really thought i'd get something i could vape. instead i got a big freaking mess with greasy bottles every where.

ya'll make it sound so easy and it's not. Nothing even came out half as good as dollar ejuice club. and their juice is pretty bad!!

I think that for some people DIY is easy, I find that even after years of mixing I struggle a lot. I have come up with a few that I like, but I certainly did not come up with them in just a month of so. Also no mater what anyone says, I always steep for at least 2 weeks, preferably a month. I know this has been said, but don't get frustrated and just keep at it and you will get it. There is a really big learning curve to it, and what tastes great to one person might taste weak or nasty to you. Good luck and I hope that you keep at it, and don't throw it all away. :|

KAS
 

Ladiekali

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Sep 1, 2013
5,631
9,207
Florida
You shouldn't touch any of your mixes (or add any flavor) for at least a week. Some of them may be overflavored.

The mixes you are describing require some steeping time. Even commercial juices are steeped, without time, they would be flavorless too. If you get a "one shot" concentrate, some of that can be vaped immediately.

I wouldn't obsess on your mixes right now, it will drive you batty. You need to WAIT. Also, I don't think anyone said DIY is EASY. I find it fun, laborious, and worth my time. But I started very slowly and really learned to understand my flavors. I would mix single flavors, steep them, and combine in my tank to a) understand my flavors and b) get a sense of how they might interact. I don't follow recipes I create my own, but that took time and planning, and experimentation. It is a process, much like learning to cook.

As to instability and depression and anxiety yes it happens when you quit. Tobacco (not nicotine) contains MAOI-A and -B, even tar is an MAOI-B. These are powerful anti depressant and anti anxiety medications that happen to be in tobacco. As your brain recalibrates, it can be normal to feel these things. You could try whole tobacco alkaloid e-liquid, the best budget maker I know of is Umbavapes. You really only need a tiny amount (I would put like a half-dropperful in my tanks, starting out, I just mixed it right in and I still keep some around for stressful situations.) This may help your brain as it adjusts to the changes going on and it takes time to reach homeostasis, where your brain receptors are no longer "craving" those substances. WTA really helps some folks quit and is much easier to taper than regular cigarettes.

If you smoke a frustration cigarette here and there, you may find some relief, but in my opinion WTA is safer than that. Your other alternative is to consult your doctor regarding the anxiety and depression you are feeling. Some folks start smoking BEFORE the onset of depression and/or anxiety, and have a harder time switching as smoking was "treating" the underlying condition.

Best of luck, don't throw in the towel quite yet..

Anna

thanks.

I do vape some wta. Hard right now as all my juices taste bad. but i think it is from vaping too much maybe.

I did go buy a pack of smokes. i went two months.. but decided i'm an adult and i wanted to. I think mentally the frustration was just too much. After a cigarette my attitude almost immediately changed. I didn't feel as over whelmed.

I've had a stressful week. my daughter who is 6 got the flue.. and thursday morning was hallucinating from high fever. And then all my vape seemed to be falling apart it seemed.

So I have all these mixes at 20%. None have any nicotine in them. I was thinking i should just go ahead maybe and make another batch at 10%

taste test them all maybe in a week.

can you speed up steeping with juice that does not have nicotine? i thought i read that steeping is the nicotine mixing with the flavorings and oxidizing, and with out nicotine it doesn't really do that.

should i just mix it with nicotine any way.
 

Ladiekali

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Sep 1, 2013
5,631
9,207
Florida
I think that for some people DIY is easy, I find that even after years of mixing I struggle a lot. I have come up with a few that I like, but I certainly did not come up with them in just a month of so. Also no mater what anyone says, I always steep for at least 2 weeks, preferably a month. I know this has been said, but don't get frustrated and just keep at it and you will get it. There is a really big learning curve to it, and what tastes great to one person might taste weak or nasty to you. Good luck and I hope that you keep at it, and don't throw it all away. :|

KAS

Thanks KAS.
it really is odd to me that tastes vary so significantly. so many people will tell me how strong a flavor is and i am just sitting there baffled.

Quitting cigarettes is really hard.
 

DancingHeretik

Dancing in the Chaos
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Mar 20, 2011
8,837
62,105
San Antonio, TX
So I have all these mixes at 20%. None have any nicotine in them. I was thinking i should just go ahead maybe and make another batch at 10%

taste test them all maybe in a week.

can you speed up steeping with juice that does not have nicotine? i thought i read that steeping is the nicotine mixing with the flavorings and oxidizing, and with out nicotine it doesn't really do that.

should i just mix it with nicotine any way.
I know some people test flavors without nic. I don't. It does not taste at all the same to me. To me, without nic, the flavor never seems to develop.
 

kas122461

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Jun 15, 2013
5,211
30,631
63
Indiana, USA
Thanks KAS.
it really is odd to me that tastes vary so significantly. so many people will tell me how strong a flavor is and i am just sitting there baffled.

Quitting cigarettes is really hard.

One thing I like to do is read other peoples recipes, and if it looks like I might like it I copy paste it into word on my computer. Then when I want to try it, I make a small tester of it. If seems like it is good but weak, I gradually increase the percentages of all the flavors (by .25 to .50 % at a time) until it is closer to what taste right for me. Then at that point I can add more flavors to it, and see what that does. I also find that I have to be in the right mood to mix, and really concentrate on what I am doing or else I make mistakes. I usually do my mix's with the Nic in them, because I think I have about a 30 year supply in the freezer. :oops: :D

KAS
 
Last edited:

IDJoel

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Feb 20, 2015
3,459
11,932
62
Boise, ID
@Ladiekali,
I am sorry that you are having such a struggle! As someone who has tried quitting multiple times, using multiple methods; I sympathize.

One kind of "out in left field" thought I had was to try unflavored e-liquid. I don't know what you have for supplies. But, if you have PG, VG, and a nicotine concentrate; you could easily make some unflavored e-liquid. It is easy, fast (ready to vape as soon ash it is thoroughly shaken), and the best part is you have no "tastes good" expectations.

I kind of stumbled onto unflavored out of desperation. I had been DIYing for a couple of years, and nothing was sounding good, I couldn't find anything I wanted to vape. But I still needed my nic fix. I had read about others who vaped unflavored (some; exclusively), and I knew it would at least get me my nicotine until I could figure what to do, so I made a small batch. Low and behold; I liked it! It had a subtle sweetness and not a lot else.

I will be the first to admit it is not very "exciting" as e-liquids go. But, it is satisfying, never disappointing, and after more than a year of vaping it, I still have not grown tired of it.

In your case, I think it might help take some of the pressure off you, by removing any expectation of tasting in a particular way. While it still provides the nicotine your body is demanding.

And as for the nicotine; don't be stingy with yourself. Many of the things (chemicals) that make cigarettes so addictive are not the nicotine. Vaping doesn't/can't replace those (though WTAs are not a bad idea for someone struggling). So, if you are also being stingy with the nicotine percentage, you are making it even harder on yourself. I don't know what your smoking habits were/are; but it is not unusual for a pack-a-day smoker to require 18mg/mL (or even 24mg/mL) nicotine strength e-liquid. Get yourself completely off cigarettes first... and then you can think about lowering nicotine levels.

If you don't have enough of the ingredients, to make your own unflavored; most vape shops stock it these days. If one doesn't have it, ask who might, before you leave. Most vape shop communities keep fairly close tabs on what the competition is doing/selling, and they also want to see ex-smokers succeed, so they will often point you to a competitor who can help.

I am sorry this is so hard and frustrating for you:(. I hope you find something that works for you. I wish you the best!:)
 

DavidOck

ECF Guru
Supporting Member
ECF Veteran
Jan 3, 2013
21,194
178,137
Halfway to Paradise, WA
So I have all these mixes at 20%. None have any nicotine in them. I was thinking i should just go ahead maybe and make another batch at 10%

So, if you are also being stingy with the nicotine percentage, you are making it even harder on yourself.

:thumb: Yep, that. Mix at your normal nic %. No wonder you're jonesing :w00t:

I, too find that the nic is an essential part of the mix, and since I'm diluting down from 100 to 18, really an inexpensive part of the mix.
 

IDJoel

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Feb 20, 2015
3,459
11,932
62
Boise, ID
As I continue to think about your frustration @Ladiekali ; I had another thought. It may be helpful; or it may not. Feel free to ignore if I am way off-base. I offer this only in hopes that it may help.

Learning to vape successfully, and learning to DIY, all while quitting smoking, can be overwhelming! To vape successfully; I mean finding the right hardware, liquid, and nicotine, that suits your needs. As smokers, and ex-smokers, we all have different needs.

Some need the "classic smoking experience" of drawing the vapor, first into our mouth, and then on into our lungs. This is often referred to as a "mouth-to-lung" (or "MTL") method of vaping. The vapor may only be pulled part way into the lungs, or taken in more fully. having a devise that has a tighter, more restrictive draw/puff may help complete the sensation.

Others, want a more straight-into-the-lungs experience, and the vapor usually fills the lungs fully. This is often referred to as a "direct-to-lung" (or "DTL") method of vaping. A more open/less restrictive draw may benefit this style of vaper.

Then there are other carry-overs from smoking that can be important to the smoker/ex-smoker. "Throat Hit" (or "TH") is that sensation you get at the back of your mouth/top of your throat, when smoking. Others find this irritating and wish to avoid it.

Lung hit is what I needed to successfully quit. I didn't like the scratchy irritation of throat hit. I needed to feel that warm density... that "heaviness," that I got from my deeply inhaled cigarettes. DTL syled devices were better for this... for me.

When I first tried vaping; I used one of those small cigarette-looking devices. It couldn't give me that big, deep, heavy feeling in my chest i was craving. I was back on cigarettes in two weeks.

Two years later, someone let me try a newer, different, power regulated setup, and I instantly knew this was what i was missing. A week later, I bought my own setup, and have never looked back.

Once you get the right hardware for yourself, then you have to find flavors you like, and I am just referring to what is in the local shop(s). I was a smoker, so tobaccos ought to work... right? Wrong! For me, this was the one type of flavor that actually made me want to smoke. "Well", then iI thought, "I like fruit, so fruit flavors ought to be good... right?" Guess what; I was wrong again. the fruit flavors I tried, all tasted fake, and none could float my boat. So, then I tried some mint flavors (I like mint flavored gum), and f i n a l l y something clicked; mint actually worked for me.

Now I had my hardware, and I had a flavor that tasted good to me; so, now I had to dial in my nicotine level. I had no idea what I needed. I had to depend of the shop clerks. A young lady asked me how much, and what, I smoked. I told her and she recommended starting with 18mg/mL. But, she only let me buy a small bottle to start. Shen wanted me to vape it and come back and tell her what I thought/how I felt. I vaped it for a couple of days, then went back and told her that "it was pretty good; but I still felt a bit edgy." She suggested going up to 24mg/mL; and sold me another small bottle. That level did the trick for me. The edginess was gone. somewhere between one and two weeks, it started feeling like it might even be a little too much; so I filled a tank with some of the 18mg/mL I had left. Good to go again.

18mg/ml was where I stayed for the first 4 or 5 months. And I really don't remember struggling too hard.

This post has been long, and all over the place, but I wrote it to show the process that worked for me. If I had been trying to learn how to DIY, along with all the rest of it, I don't think I would have been successful.

You may already have the perfect hardware for you. You may already have flavors you know you enjoy vaping. You may know what nicotine level you need. I hope so; because that would put you that much further ahead.

But, if you are missing one or more of those "parts," it might help your own success to find the answers... before you dive into DIY. Having a stock on hand, of commercial e-liquid you know you like (or at least; a local source that you can always turn to), can be a big part of the difference between success or failure in becoming the next (and best!;)) ex-smoker.

One additional thought:
I never told myself "I am quitting." (in fact; I thought I would see if i could just supliment the cost of smoking <a whopping $6/pk at the time> by vaping some of the time. And if i actually managed to quit; BONUS!)
I did not throw out my last pack of smokes.
I did make it less convenient. I gather up all the ashtrays and put them in the garage. I put the cigarettes in a desk drawer in the back bedroom. But I never told myself I couldn't have another cigarette. Each time I wanted a cigarette, I simply bargained with myself, to vape for 5 more minutes. And then, if I still wanted a smoke, I would go have one. For the most part; this worked.

About six months into vaping, on a night involving alcohol :)facepalm:), I said "screw it," and lit one up. It reminded me a lot of the very first time I smoked. It stank. It tasted awful. It made me dizzy. But, I smoked the whole thing. Afterwards, I felt lousy. I felt embarrassed. I was ashamed of my lack of self-control. And I REEKED! (I had no idea how bad I smelled as a smoker.). I found there was nothing that I "liked" about the experience. But, ultimately, it helped to strengthen my resolve to keep vaping.

This happened, a few more times, over the course of the next 14-18 months. Each time I smoked less of the cigarette. Until, the last time, just lighting the cigarette was enough for me. "This is stupid..." I thought, "I don't like this. I don't want this. This is dumb; I'm finished." I threw out the remainder of the pack (now nearly 2 years old), and have never considered lighting up since.

I am not sure I would recommend this method for anyone else. But, for me; not saying it's "either/or," or defining my quitting as an ultimatum, worked in my mind. It stopped becoming something I could fail at; and became an ongoing process I was working toward.

All I am saying is, don't beat yourself up if you smoke; and don't give up vaping either. One does not exclude the other. At least; not until you say they do!:thumb:

Again... I am wishing you all the best!:D
 

Ladiekali

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Sep 1, 2013
5,631
9,207
Florida
One thing I like to do is read other peoples recipes, and if it looks like I might like it I copy paste it into word on my computer. Then when I want to try it, I make a small tester of it. If seems like it is good but weak, I gradually increase the percentages of all the flavors (by .25 to .50 % at a time) until it is closer to what taste right for me. Then at that point I can add more flavors to it, and see what that does. I also find that I have to be in the right mood to mix, and really concentrate on what I am doing or else I make mistakes. I usually do my mix's with the Nic in them, because I think I have about a 30 year supply in the freezer. :oops: :D

KAS

that is a great tip too!

thanks. that's something i would normally do and didn't event think about it. And yes, be in the right state of mind. I learned that one already haha. but it is reassuring to see i'm not the only one.
 

Ladiekali

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Sep 1, 2013
5,631
9,207
Florida
Good tip. that could be half my battle.

All help and advice is appreciated!
I like the idea of plain vg with nic to vape. i've thought of doing that before, said i was going to and then never did!

And what you said about vape and smoking styles...
see i smoked newports for 28 years. any other cigarette would make me gag and i i really suffered thru it i would vomit. So mouth to lung vaping i had a similar experience. I found it very hard to inhale. Mostly just holding the vapor in my mouth like a dang chip munk. So about a year ago i moved to sub ohm tanks. For the record i started vaping in 2013!

I've had better luck with sub ohm tanks. but i do miss the lung feel. And i find it in dark vanilla's, but every vendor who made that type of vanilla has since stopped or gone out of business.

Funny you mention mint.. I did pick up spearmint and didn't even mix it up!
Like you I can't seem to vape the fruit flavors or the candy flavors. they are good for a hit or two, and then i just can't vape it any more.

I've only been vaping 3 nic. Maybe i should up it to 6, since i'm subohming. I"m not sure what higher nic would feel like on a sub ohm set up.

my hardware is and has been extensive.
I finally settled on rebuildables. I have lots of tanks and maybe too much.
I have uwell crown and crown mini for backups now.
and i have a dripper and rta that i use mostly.

i just got home. today i went to the only vape shop in town and sat down and taste tested flavors for 3 hours untill i found one that i think i can vape long term. So i bought some back up juice!!

thank you for your thoughts, ideas and advice.
 

IDJoel

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Feb 20, 2015
3,459
11,932
62
Boise, ID
I've only been vaping 3 nic. Maybe i should up it to 6, since i'm subohming. I"m not sure what higher nic would feel like on a sub ohm set up.
If you are coming off Newports (a strong menthol cig.); I would strongly guess that you are starving yourself of nicotine. Especially, if "chipmonking" is still your common method of vaping (the mouth has less surface area for absorption; than the lungs). I believe you are right; that generally speaking, low sub-ohm + high-power vaping, delivers more nicotine (due to more vapor?), than high-ohm, low power setups.

Even so, I think you would greatly benefit increasing your nic to 6mL (or even more?), at least for the short term. There isn't huge risk to make yourself nic sick, by vaping too much, at these levels. Likely, you will simply find you are just vaping less often. I find, unless you are in a setting that demands frequent repetitive vaping (like a cloud competition); the human body is pretty smart and self-regulating about such things.
(I recently doubled my own nic content; with the specific intent to reduce my habit of chain-vaping. It has worked better than I could have hoped; and has required almost no conscious thought or effort.)
 

Ladiekali

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Sep 1, 2013
5,631
9,207
Florida
Sounds like a plan! Tomorrow I'm definatley gonna mix in some nicotine in my premades.. i'll mix them at 6% and dilute them down to 10% flavoring.

I'm currently vaping 3nic. but I think i'll go ahead and buy some juice at 6 nic... looks like some juice sales or coming out. if i dig around i may have some bottles of 6 somewhere.

And i will lower my expectations on the diy portion.
i don't know why i was thinking i'd mix up some flavors and have something vapeable in a few days.
especially considering i'm not vaping fruity flavors.

think i'll go ahead and do up a lightly flavored spearmint juice too.

i didn't even think about the strength of those newports. they aint no joke.
they didn't give me any chest hairs.. but i could argue about chin hairs!

i would actually love to get nic sick just once.
it happened a few years ago when i was on those little cigalikes...

but it would be nice to know that i'm getting the nicotine. heck if i can't get nic sick off 6mg, then i just may have to bump it up higher.. i guess doing diy would make that so much easier!
 

IDJoel

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Feb 20, 2015
3,459
11,932
62
Boise, ID
EDIT by IDJoel: section removed due to erroneous information
(thanks for catching that @mcclintock!:thumb:)
And i will lower my expectations on the diy portion.
i don't know why i was thinking i'd mix up some flavors and have something vapeable in a few days.
especially considering i'm not vaping fruity flavors.
Sounds smart. Having a back-up supply of store-bought e-liquid can really help cover the delay while waiting for your DIY to mature.
think i'll go ahead and do up a lightly flavored spearmint juice too.
Not a bad idea. My experience with plain mints (no secondary flavors like creams), is they are pretty much shake-and-vape. There shouldn't be any/much waiting for this.
i didn't even think about the strength of those newports. they aint no joke.
they didn't give me any chest hairs.. but i could argue about chin hairs!
:laugh::laugh::laugh:
but it would be nice to know that i'm getting the nicotine. heck if i can't get nic sick off 6mg, then i just may have to bump it up higher.. i guess doing diy would make that so much easier!
This might be a good candidate for trying an unflavored mix. Just make a small batch (5 mL-ish?), and see what a given nicotine amount does for you. Again; this should be shake-and-vape ready.:D
 
Last edited:

mcclintock

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
  • Oct 28, 2014
    1,547
    1,787
    ^^-- 6% x 100 mg/ml (10%) = 6 mg. 6% x 1000 mg/ml = 60 mg.


    Re: unflavored, if the nic is strong it's some good stuff. If you were comparing to 18 or 24 mg commercial juice, unflavored with the nic will come closer than flavors and no nic, or at least be more satisfying. At 6 mg through a higher output device, I'm not sure; I do 1.5 mg so I need flavor.

    Flavor combinations can be stronger tasting than single flavors. I know there's probably a mix expert out there that knows I'm "doing it wrong", but when I find a (reasonable) combination that makes it stronger, once I find the right dilution it's usually really good. Most premade ejuices don't mix that way, perhaps because they are more complex already, you get something half in between or even something where both flavors get too weak (since you can't add flavoring), but with pure flavorings or simple ejuices made with them the combination can be multiplication rather than just addition.
     

    Ladiekali

    Vaping Master
    ECF Veteran
    Verified Member
    Sep 1, 2013
    5,631
    9,207
    Florida
    i didn't mean to throw the percent with the 6 nic.

    i just meant 6 nic and lower the flavoring percentage. just my words got jumbled up.

    my nicotine is in 36mg. so i would change the zero nic juice to 6 mg nic.

    yes, and maybe i'll start with mixing a small 6ml bottle unflavored to see how the nic goes. that's a great idea. I guess when diving in to do this alone, it can get overwhelming. so these are great tips. thanks.


    in the past if i liked a juice at a certain nic level, if i changed the nic level it also changed the juice.
    i tried to order some alice in vapeland max vg in 6 nic. all my favorite juices.. even ordered the 60ml size. that juice is unvapable for me. it's so harsh i can't hit it. i thought it was the nic level.. but in the past if i vaped too high of nic it kinda put a lump in my throat. this juice didn't do that.. it was just harsh. but it made me leary of ordering 6 nic again. my best guess really is that the pg is too high for a sub ohm tank. so maybe they have their nic in a pg base, so that raising nic also raises pg level. Just a guess.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: stols001

    JCinFLA

    Vaping Master
    ECF Veteran
    Verified Member
    Oct 21, 2015
    9,390
    44,560
    @Ladiekali - About 2 months ago, I started helping a newbie switch to vaping...who smoked only Menthol ciggies for more than 40 years. I set him up with some loaner gear he selected, and told him I'd make some eliquid for him. He wanted to try only menthol tobacco, or maybe some sort of mint. So I made him a 15mL bottle of menthol tobacco. Based on what I'd read in another thread, I made his other bottle with TFA Peppermint. It's so potent, I only put 3 drops in a 30mL bottle.

    He smelled both bottles, and decided he'd like to try the Peppermint first. After about a dozen hits, and smiling the whole time...he said he didn't even need to try the menthol tobacco one because he really liked the Peppermint. He's still happily vaping along on just Peppermint I make for him, while doing a great job gradually tapering off on the smoking.

    So, maybe something as simple as the right mint or peppermint might help you, too. :)
     

    Ladiekali

    Vaping Master
    ECF Veteran
    Verified Member
    Sep 1, 2013
    5,631
    9,207
    Florida
    @Ladiekali - About 2 months ago, I started helping a newbie switch to vaping...who smoked only Menthol ciggies for more than 40 years. I set him up with some loaner gear he selected, and told him I'd make some eliquid for him. He wanted to try only menthol tobacco, or maybe some sort of mint. So I made him a 15mL bottle of menthol tobacco. Based on what I'd read in another thread, I made his other bottle with TFA Peppermint. It's so potent, I only put 3 drops in a 30mL bottle.

    He smelled both bottles, and decided he'd like to try the Peppermint first. After about a dozen hits, and smiling the whole time...he said he didn't even need to try the menthol tobacco one because he really liked the Peppermint. He's still happily vaping along on just Peppermint I make for him, while doing a great job gradually tapering off on the smoking.

    So, maybe something as simple as the right mint or peppermint might help you, too. :)

    that's a great idea.
    think i'm gonna pick up a variety when i order again. can't hurt to try right!!
     
    Status
    Not open for further replies.

    Users who are viewing this thread