Quit analogs.. with PV.. but how do you quit PV?

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GirlyPantz

Full Member
Jan 14, 2011
26
1
Brisbane
I was a 40 a day smoker when I could barely afford analogs. When the price increased by 25% I swiched to rolling tobacco because I knew from previous experiance that a 50gram pouch should get me through the best part of a week. However I also knew that this was no more than a stop-gap measure, as rolling tobacco is too heavy for my chest to cope with over an extended period. vaping was my last hope of qutting analogs, even after 5 long months of research I was still having doubts because dry nicotine inhalers don't agree with me(nor did the other nicotine replacements). Thankfully I haven't had an analog since the minute my 1st e-cig arrived and I haven't missed them one little bit, now THAT is saying something!

The fact that I am in control of what, I can only assume, is being refered to as "Throat hit" is a huge factor, as the dry nicotine inhalers had too much throat hit for me. That dry raspy kind of feelng is something I seem to have a low tolerence for and seems to be directly related to nicotine content in my case. I also feel that this throat hit is the driving factor behind the need to drink pleanty of water while vaping, because its soothes and clears that dryness. (it also solved my soda habit because the water allowed me to get a better depth of flavour and sweetness out of my e-juice) The good news is that I started at 18mg/ml quite comfortably, then decided to drop to 11mg/ml because I was chain vaping. At the end of my day I tried to go back up to my normal 18mg/ml and then found the throat hit too much after vaping my 11mg/ml. For me at least, it would seem that decreasing the amount of nicotine per ml is easier than increasing it.

Already thinking of dropping down again, but feel it would be prudent to wait till the chain vaping slows. I attribute the chain vaping to the fact that my brain is still searching for the tar that used to be there but not the nicotine. But because the e-cig mimics smoking habits/feel sooooo thoroughly it is taking a while for my brain to adjust to the fact, that after doing the same physical thing for 25 years, it is now yeilding a different result. A bit like "sea-legs" where it takes a while to adjust to the fact that on a boat at sea, the floor is constantly moving instead of being solid and stable and then that sensation can remain for a while after returning to dry land. The imitation is so good it is not actually triggering a craving for an analog but a "want" for more vapour(no doubt so your brain can continue it's seach for the missing ingredients lol).

Remember the nicotine level in e-juice is measured per ml not per cigarette. My old regular cigarettes(taylor mades) were 8mg each (To be honest I feel this measure could be more tar than nicotine or that smoke is a less efficient as delivery system but never really thought about it until using e-cigs), I averaged 40 analogs per day so that is 2240mg of nicotine and tar per week on average that I used to consume. I vape about 20 mls of 11mg nic juice per week so that is only 220mg of nicotine per week. Even at 18mg/ml using 20 mls per week it would only be 360mg of nicotine per week. So the jump to e-cigs from analogs is the biggest nose dive in nicotine levels one should experiance and personally I didnt really notice it because I dont feel I have given up anything or that anything is missing except for that head-spin/instant hit kind of feeling.

The other major factor for me was TASTE, I L*O*V*E!!!!!!! menthol and every time I have tried to quit, I swear, I miss the menthol as much as the nicotine and often more so!!! My plan is, that before I get around to quitting e-cigs, I need to buy menthol crystals and perfect my own tiny hard boiled "plain" menthol lollies. Not a Eucalyptus/menthol blend found in chewing gum's or cough drop's. OR find a new favourite flavour to love that I can replicate easily with food/drink, like green apple, orange, lemon or cola. The latter idea being my prefference, for me will mean diluting the menthol concentration to 0% will need to take priority over nicotine reduction. And hunting for a good strong fresh flavour to fill the void and nicely follow meals etc... will need to be given the same priority. That is why I am looking to fruits/juices or sodas because real fruit/juices and sodas satisfy the hand to mouth habit and are easy to obtain provided you steer clear of seasonal fruits and they cleanse the pallet.

The Only will power required is to get through the 1st few hours and mouthfulls of e-juice till you get the hang of it. The rest is really no worse than changing brands.
I want mention about changing to e-cigs and what to expect. Thankfully I still remember how sick I felt 23 years ago, for the 2 weeks it took me to change over to menthol cigarettes, so I was mentally prepared for the same again. I am sure you will be relieved that it was no-where near that bad. Yes there was some bad coughing(and still some at times but only minor) and some minor nausea. But what suprised me was that my mouth felt like it was coated with mucus rather than saliva. Thankfully all passed within the 1st week (Drinking pleanty of water really helps -- its more that, drinking water really-often, helps rather than the quantity). I still cough on odd occasions but I was like that with analogs too, heck I cough if water vapour/steam hits me the wrong way lol. Oh and eye irritation for me it was my right eye only and yes my instinct was to question the link with e-cigs but as it was only one eye not both, I also examined enviromental and hygene factors. I noticed the fan was blowing the vapour onto the right-hand side of my face more often than not, but never onto the left side (so a minor change solved that.) The other thing was that hand washing (essential as nicotine is very poisonous) is not always practical when refilling while out and about. 1 drop or half a drop on my skin at 11mg/ml for my body weight in my opinion, poses no great personal risk to me, provided I dry it wth a tissue or my jeans asap . However I suggest you treat it like onion or chilli because if you get it in your eyes it may cause irritation. (this may be different for you, and I am not suggesting that this is a safe or responsible responce to an e-liquid spill of ANY quantity, I am more so pointing out that its human nature to take short-cuts and the personal risk assessments we all make at times)

Nicotine can be absorbed through the skin and is very readily absorbed through the lining of the mouth and mucus membranes (so that includes nasal passages, throat and lungs) so huge lungfulls are not essential but may be enjoyable :)

PROPYENE GLYCOL--LONG TERM EFFECTS AT HIGH CONCENTRATIONS have been researched to some extent
(I did lift the next paragraph in black text from Wikipedia but about 5 months ago I did read the reports that I managed to find online and am sure you can easily do the same, sorry I didn't keep the links at the time. From memory the study on the monkeys was done at saturation point {maximim vaporisation} of PG for a period of upto 18 months, full autopsys revealed no ill effects on any organs)

Found 3 links and if you are really keen you can opt to purchase the full report but this should get you started the last link is a Biographical Memoir which includes a list of various studies Dr. Oswald Hope Robertson participated in and may offer futher reading or points of interest. While Wikipedia may point you in the right direction it is no substitue for personal research.

http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/91/1/52.abstract#

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,932876,00.html

http://books.nap.edu/html/biomems/orobertson.pdf


Possible air germicideStudies conducted in 1942 by Dr. Oswald Hope Robertson of University of Chicago's Billings Hospital showed vaporized propylene glycol inhalation in laboratory mice may prevent pneumonia, influenza, and other respiratory diseases. Additional studies in monkeys and other animals were undertaken to determine longterm effects, especially the potential for accumulation in the lungs. After a few months of treatment, no ill effects were discovered.[32]

Well I don't know if any of this will help you quit e-cigs or analogs but if you are quitting analogs your key concerns when chosing a device are really battery life, cartrige capacity and ease of refilling cartriges especially when out and about. Manual batteries and pushing the button is not as huge a deal as you may think. While I do wish there were nice metalic hard enamel paint jobs in pretty colours on my e-cigs(like on cars), I cannot fault my Joye Ego's on ease of use, battery life or ease of refilling on the go because there is nothing to pull apart inside, no extra tools no paperclips required etc.. and no need to sit down.
Just take the cart off and there is the filler material right at the top, fill and replace the cart.... nice and easy (I am using the Ego carts and Ego atomisers not the 510 carts) 2 fully charged extra large batteris and 10mls of juce guarantees me 15 hours of steady and frequent vaping with e-juce to spare and I usually have a standard ego batt, atty and cart in my PCC just in case and I got the lanyard which is a God send especially when driving but I do recommend adding a 5ml key-chain bottle to the lanyard.

HAPPY VAPING!!!

I do not work for any company, these are my own thoughts, feelings and opinions and I strongly encourage people to do their own research. PG is not the only ingredient in e-cigs and I am aware of concerns with some flavourings vaper's are using, my theory is if you have doubts about a product or liquid then avoid it untill you have done your own research and made an evaluation percieved or otherwise as to your personal risks. Never disregard claims of danger and never take claims of danger or safety for that matter as gospel. Always research ingredients you are not famliar with to the best of your ability.

Until this stuff is approved by the FDA (and even after that) we the customers are the only moderators to independently decide how big a risk we are willing to take. At the end of the day we are all literally staking our own lives in our support of these products, so we need to get it right and not fall into the trap of ignorance that we as smokers are all guilty of to some degree and has seen more than 1 smoker die throughout history, due to illnesses that "might" be linked to tobacco, by blindly following public perception at that time and failing to dig deeper. Lets try to stay ahead of the curve this time round and not let history repeat itself.

 
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decadent666

Full Member
Jan 20, 2011
15
3
Australia
I've been vaping for only about 3 months. In that time I've forgotten to swap my battery for a charged one when going out for a 12 hour shift a few times. Of those 3 times I haven't been able to vape I haven't gone nuts at all 2 times and the other time i was a bit ... antsy ( for want of a better word) for the last 2 hours.

Looking at this I reckon I could quit cold turkey from the PV quite easily. I would never have been able to say that of cigs (25+ smokes a day). I have dropped my mg down to 12 and am looking at going down to 0. But I don't think I will quit the PV vaping as its too much fun.

That's my personal view. I know alot of ppl who have quit the PV altogether (they're the ones that got me onto it) so I reckon its alot easier then quitting smokes.
 

Katatonik

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ECF Veteran
Jan 14, 2011
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Dallas, TX
In one word; Snus. I've since cut my vaping in half and saved a few bucks too.

Be aware that snus is really bad for your mouth.
I only dipped for half a year heavily (2 tins a week) and then for a year after that much much less (pick up a tin here or there just for the hell of it). After the first half year, I went to the dentist and had 3 cavities, first time ever.
A month ago I got diagnosed with leukoplakia (step one on a road to oral cancer). Hence, why I picked up vaping.

I don't know if I'll ever get off nic entirely. I'm not dependent on it. I went a week and a half without it with only a few problems. I just really like it.
Right now I'm on some heavy nic liquid (I have some 30 mg, most are 24). Really the only good way to get over that morning urge.
I'll probably want to wean myself off of daily vaping (or vape low nic), and save the big guns for when I'm really stressed/anxious.
 

Strangelove

Full Member
Feb 3, 2011
13
1
Brooklyn
I have been vaping for 8 days now and never had the intention of quitting nicotine. I just wanted a healthier alternative. I know it's stubborn of me, but I'm just not ready. I live a fast paced, busy, and often stressful life in NYC and need some form of portable thing to accommodate my subsequent oral fixation that isn't food. I hope to quit one day, but not in the foreseeable future.

Your concern is valid: personally, I like vaping so much more than smoking(the taste, the little rituals of batteries and charging and atomizers and drip tips and flavored juices) that I vape more than I ever smoked. I use a low mg of nicotine(currently between 6-14mg but most often 8 or 12) and so I'm probably not getting more nicotine than before, but I am almost never without my VP in hand nowadays.

I have zero interest in "analog" cigarettes now, and if I can help it(meaning as long as vps aren't banned, etc etc), I will never go back.
 

mung

Full Member
Feb 8, 2011
24
1
Atlanta
I've gone from a 20+ day smoker to PV almost overnight. I would venture to say that this is my new favorite thing. I've been rolling around the idea of reducing the nic content of my juices gradually...but it's too early to tell now. Gotta say that even if I'm using 24mg juice for many years, I figure I'm still miles ahead health-wise than pounding Marlboro Smooths all day long.
 

DC2

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Jun 21, 2009
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I think a lot of people are very surprised at how easily they can reduce the nicotine strength.
And similarly, I think a lot of people are not nearly as addicted to nicotine as they thought.

I know I wasn't addicted to nicotine, as I only smoked about 3-10 cigarettes per day for 27 years.
And I could go all day without one, if I was busy with other things, and not think twice about having a cigarette.

But I also know that I probably will never be able to quit vaping, because I am addicted to other things about the vaping experience.
Just as I was addicted to things about the smoking experience other than the nicotine.

So I guess what I'm saying is that I think it depends on what you are really addicted to and why.
:)
 

Rosa

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Mar 18, 2010
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Beaverton, Oregon!
Be aware that snus is really bad for your mouth.
I only dipped for half a year heavily (2 tins a week) and then for a year after that much much less (pick up a tin here or there just for the hell of it). After the first half year, I went to the dentist and had 3 cavities, first time ever.
A month ago I got diagnosed with leukoplakia (step one on a road to oral cancer). Hence, why I picked up vaping.

I don't know if I'll ever get off nic entirely. I'm not dependent on it. I went a week and a half without it with only a few problems. I just really like it.
Right now I'm on some heavy nic liquid (I have some 30 mg, most are 24). Really the only good way to get over that morning urge.
I'll probably want to wean myself off of daily vaping (or vape low nic), and save the big guns for when I'm really stressed/anxious.
Just to be clear, canned "snuff", "chaw" or "dip"... is bad for your mouth and causes oral cancer. SNUS on the other hand does not:


Oral use of Swedish moist snuff (snus) and risk fo... [Lancet. 2007] - PubMed result
QUOTE:
"We were unable to confirm any excess of oral or lung cancer in snus users."
 

halfcup

Full Member
Jan 28, 2011
56
2
SE, US
I've been off analogs for about 5 weeks now, and I do intend to stop vaping eventually. I don't like being addicted to anything, and although vaping is likely much less unhealthy than smoking, I'm betting there are some health risks.

My plan is to wait until I feel fully confident that I won't go back to cigarettes... at least 6 months but maybe even a year or so. Then cut the nic down drastically and start wearing the patch. I want to break the hand-to-mouth habit. Keep lowering the nic til it hits zero, then quit entirely. Finally, start weening off the patch. I'll keep some patches around, for stressful times. Maybe even keep the PV for a year or so.
 

parkchanwoo

Full Member
Feb 5, 2011
39
0
San Diego
I've been off analogs for about 5 weeks now, and I do intend to stop vaping eventually. I don't like being addicted to anything, and although vaping is likely much less unhealthy than smoking, I'm betting there are some health risks.

My plan is to wait until I feel fully confident that I won't go back to cigarettes... at least 6 months but maybe even a year or so. Then cut the nic down drastically and start wearing the patch. I want to break the hand-to-mouth habit. Keep lowering the nic til it hits zero, then quit entirely. Finally, start weening off the patch. I'll keep some patches around, for stressful times. Maybe even keep the PV for a year or so.

Is there anything bad, health wise, that comes from vaping? I heard that nicotine, in a controlled dosage, is as harmless/harmful as caffeine. Anybody else hear about these things?
 

Rosa

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Mar 18, 2010
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I've been off analogs for about 5 weeks now, and I do intend to stop vaping eventually. I don't like being addicted to anything, and although vaping is likely much less unhealthy than smoking, I'm betting there are some health risks.

My plan is to wait until I feel fully confident that I won't go back to cigarettes... at least 6 months but maybe even a year or so. Then cut the nic down drastically and start wearing the patch. I want to break the hand-to-mouth habit. Keep lowering the nic til it hits zero, then quit entirely. Finally, start weening off the patch. I'll keep some patches around, for stressful times. Maybe even keep the PV for a year or so.

I have found that after about 9 months or even earlier, you would have probably been able to stop vaping without experiencing any stress or withdrawal. After about 8-9 months the vaping experience and the addiction experience became sort of "a wash".

The addiction aspect became less and less while the enjoyment aspect became richer (or at least more interesting) until they meet in the middle and I find that I vape because I want to vape, not because I have to vape.


I don't know how else to explain it other than to say that after 25 years of smoking about 3/4 pack a day of camel filters I started vaping. It's been about 10 months so far and I don't want cigarettes anymore - but in addition to that, if nicotine became illegal tomorrow, I'd probably just vape 0nic flavors or nothing at all.

If it turned out that vaping was bad for me, I guess I'd just stop.

I seriously don't think you'll ever need the patch again. Just vape, nice and easy, forget about quitting and enjoy the ride. next thing you know you'll be "forgetting" to bring your PV to work and saying, "oh well." instead of "OH CRAP!!".

Much less stress.
 

Katatonik

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Jan 14, 2011
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Dallas, TX
Just to be clear, canned "snuff", "chaw" or "dip"... is bad for your mouth and causes oral cancer. SNUS on the other hand does not:


Oral use of Swedish moist snuff (snus) and risk fo... [Lancet. 2007] - PubMed result
QUOTE:
"We were unable to confirm any excess of oral or lung cancer in snus users."

The main difference between Camel Snus and dip is the addition of sodium (salt) to decrease excess saliva.
If you get traditional snus, which is cured differently, then yes, there is probably a distinct decrease in carcinogens. But it is by no means as healthy of a substitute as Vaping.
I am assuming the use of Camel Snus because it is one of two brands that are widely marketed in the US, and the other you can only buy from higher end retailers (spec's and fine cigar stores). Your local gas station will probably not have the more traditional snus.

In the end, the big C is not merely how often or how much you smoke(or dip in this case) and for how long.
My great grandfather smoked 2-3 packs of lucky strikes a day for 50 years. He had no problems with cancer.
I know people that go through 2 tins of dip a day and have been for over 10 years. No problems.

I did it for little over a year and it destroyed my oral health.


I'm merely warning that snus is bad for your mouth. Which it is. Even if it doesn't end in cancer, it'll lead to receding gum line, gingivitis, pereodontitis, and erosion of the enamel on your teeth leading to cavities and other such problems.

Don't mean to preach. Really. If you want to snus, snus on. Just don't assume that it's a risk-free alternative to smoking.
 

Rosa

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Mar 18, 2010
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Is there anything bad, health wise, that comes from vaping? I heard that nicotine, in a controlled dosage, is as harmless/harmful as caffeine. Anybody else hear about these things?


Yes, that's about right. Both nicotine and caffeine are widely used in medical settings for different purposes. Both can raise your heartrate when you use them.

I think the only real concern with nicotine is that it can hinder the cells in your body that help to fight cancer... that means that if you were going to get cancer anyway - it would have been better if you weren't using nicotine. It does NOT mean that nicotine causes cancer (it doesn't). I bet the same could be said for a lot of the products that we use everyday.
 

GirlyPantz

Full Member
Jan 14, 2011
26
1
Brisbane
I've been off analogs for about 5 weeks now, and I do intend to stop vaping eventually. I don't like being addicted to anything, and although vaping is likely much less unhealthy than smoking, I'm betting there are some health risks.

My plan is to wait until I feel fully confident that I won't go back to cigarettes... at least 6 months but maybe even a year or so. Then cut the nic down drastically and start wearing the patch. I want to break the hand-to-mouth habit. Keep lowering the nic til it hits zero, then quit entirely. Finally, start weening off the patch. I'll keep some patches around, for stressful times. Maybe even keep the PV for a year or so.

just be careful that the patch doesn't increase your daily nicotine intake/dependancy or it will defeat your purpose -- there are many e-juice calculators available for "free and clear" use on the web, where you enter the amount of nicotine in your base liquid and the desired level of nicotine you want in your end prodict and how many mls of end product you wish to make, most give results in drops and mls, So as a crude example to convert a menthol 24mg/ml into 10mls of menthol 12mg/ml it would be 5mls of your 24mg/ml nic-base plus 5mls of blank/flavoured zero-nic liquid or 100 drops of each approx. while a 50/50 cut seems simple enough, these caculators come into their own if you want to convert an 18mg/ml to a 15mg/ml or if you just have a splash of 18mg/ml and a splash of 24mg/ml and you want to combine them with a zero-nic base to make a an end product of 11mg/ml. This gives you the power to taylor your nicotine reduction to a rate that suits you and is only limited by your measuring accuracy (and of course usage patterns because patches may be slow release but give a constant supply where as vaping is sporadic and dependant on desire and the availability of your hands/enviromental factors.)

 
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GirlyPantz

Full Member
Jan 14, 2011
26
1
Brisbane
I want to break the hand-to-mouth habit. Keep lowering the nic til it hits zero, then quit entirely. Finally, start weening off the patch. I'll keep some patches around, for stressful times. Maybe even keep the PV for a year or so.

you could try fruit, food or beverage flavoured e-juice and then when the time comes replace them with the real item. Eating an apple or drinking an apple juice for example still gives you the hand to mouth action and hopefully a comparitive or improved flavour to that of the apple flavoured e-juice without a negitive health impact on your dietary habits. Then one day you will decide your not hungry or thirsty at your old trigger point (after a meal for example) or simply that you feel like something other than apple at that time.

 
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BsgD68

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ECF Veteran
Nov 1, 2010
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Fallbrook, CA
Be aware that snus is really bad for your mouth.
I only dipped for half a year heavily (2 tins a week) and then for a year after that much much less (pick up a tin here or there just for the hell of it). After the first half year, I went to the dentist and had 3 cavities, first time ever.
A month ago I got diagnosed with leukoplakia (step one on a road to oral cancer). Hence, why I picked up vaping.

I don't know if I'll ever get off nic entirely. I'm not dependent on it. I went a week and a half without it with only a few problems. I just really like it.
Right now I'm on some heavy nic liquid (I have some 30 mg, most are 24). Really the only good way to get over that morning urge.
I'll probably want to wean myself off of daily vaping (or vape low nic), and save the big guns for when I'm really stressed/anxious.

Sorry to hear that, I mean it. Not to undermine what happened to you, but were you using Swedish snus or American? It's my understanding that the two are vastly different, and I don't mean just the addition of salt. I'm not saying that snus is "healthy", but it's far better than smoking or dipping. Speaking only for myself, I don't feel that I get enough nicotine from vaping alone, but since adding Swedish snus to the roster, I now have zero inclination to start smoking again. Good luck...
 

Rosa

Vaping Master
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Mar 18, 2010
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Beaverton, Oregon!
Sorry to hear that, I mean it. Not to undermine what happened to you, but were you using Swedish snus or American? It's my understanding that the two are vastly different, and I don't mean just the addition of salt. I'm not saying that snus is "healthy", but it's far better than smoking or dipping. Speaking only for myself, I don't feel that I get enough nicotine from vaping alone, but since adding Swedish snus to the roster, I now have zero inclination to start smoking again. Good luck...

I think the main difference is that you are using Swedish Snus, which is very different from using American branded snus:

Snus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


QUOTE:
• Snus (Scandinavian), a moist Scandinavian form of snuff which is placed under the upper lip which does not result in the need for spitting.
• Snus (American), similar to Scandinavian form of snus, but altered by American tobacco companies to satisfy consumer preferences, increase satisfaction (and thus sales) or serve other less clear purposes. The products are marketed as cigarette replacements in scenarios when smoking is prohibited. It produces a very low blood concentration of nicotine, due to smaller portion size, low moisture content, and low pH, which hinders the absorption of nicotine into the bloodstream. The American versions of this product may not eliminate the urge to smoke, and it has been speculated that they are intended to sustain a cigarette smoking habit, while fostering a second tobacco habit simultaneously.


QUOTE:
Snus may be less harmful than other tobacco products; according to Kenneth Warner, director of the University of Michigan Tobacco Research Network,
"The Swedish government has studied this stuff to death, and to date, there is no compelling evidence that it has any adverse health consequences. ... Whatever they eventually find out, it is dramatically less dangerous than smoking."
 

player30

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Dec 10, 2010
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Like many others I have made no plans to quit vaping. I started with 12 mg, went to 18mg, and am now back to 12mg. I really enjoy it, and it helps keep me from eating!! My husband on the other hand started vaping when I did, and he will vape sometimes. But he will go a couple of days on a standard 4081 battery charge. I think he will probably just quit at some point. I like the hand to mouth and the blowing out vapor, and do it is more than just the nic to me! My next order is going to be 6mg & 12 mg to make a 9mg.
 
After quitting analogs on the day I started vaping, Dec. 28, I have no desire to stop teh vape. I enjoy it too much. However, after some time has passed, I may consider lowing my nic level from 24mg to 18mg and see how that goes. Who knows? Maybe someday I'll get to 0mg. Right now, I'm just happy to be off analogs and feeling SO much better.
 
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