Ran into one today.

[CabinetGuyScott]

If I hadn't brought it up, as the means for me quitting cigarettes, she would of gone on with those thoughts about how bad it is. She may still have them but at least she has heard from someone that is vaping and knows the REAL Story. That may just lead her to investigate further and find out for herself what the real story is.

If I had left at "Yes I've quit smoking" without HOW she would continue to spread that same misinformation.

In my opinion whenever the chance comes up, to whoever brings up the subject of quitting or smoking or vaping, it is my duty to express my opinion. If I didn't, and no one else does, then that misinformation will be the end of vaping and the end of using it as a means to get off the cigarettes.

I never talk religion.

So I think you are mistaken on the vaping part.

EXACTLY!!!!

Way too many vapers are terrified of offending others, afraid of the slightest possibility of a negative response, and give way too much consideration to the smallest fraction of the population: ANTZ.

Over & over again, ad nauseum, the fear-mongering amongst our own community... "oh don't do that, that will just get more bans passed - that will make people hate us... on and on.

Read these threads and you'll find the less than positive to the out-right negative responses are RARE.

Even if you could possibly document 50 negative stories here, you'll find 1,000's and 1,000's of positives.

Do we let the smallest chance of negative silence us?

Shootist has the right idea: these situations / people are our prime opportunity for us to inform & educate and provide truth, facts & first-hand experience.

This is a war to protect smoking - and e-cigs are vapers are just the current battle-front for the politicians/BP/BT/tobacco control freaks/ANTZ/Nanny-Staters to focus on.

Seize every opportunity to be the source of facts, science & positive first-hand experience to fight back the propaganda & misinformation.


Join CASAA now and stay engaged

Reach out & communicate with everyone you can - especially the politicians:

CASAA's Third Call to Action Regarding FDA Proposed Regulations

 

[CabinetGuyScott]

You might try showing her some articles. I'll link a few that might help.

Why Is The FDA Shielding Smokers From The Good News About E-Cigarettes? - Forbes

or

The Clueless Crusade to Ban E-Cigarettes - Reason.com

or

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn24924-science-wrong-in-eus-proposed-ecigarette-law.html

Great links!!

Be informed, understand and educate.

Here's another of my favorites: Clive Bates take-down of ANTZ

 

[rurwin]

ANTZ have an agenda. It is to totally end all use of tobacco by the year 2000... errm... eventually... as soon as possible.

To do that, they think nothing of twisting statistics and medical studies. This is a war, and everything is fair.

Up until now they have been engaging the tobacco companies, and they have been largely right and on the side of public health. Studies coming out of the tobacco industry were fatally flawed, and could be countered by flawed studies in response. That is where they expect to be. That is what they are used to and where they have their expertise.

But ecigs are a different beast. They are healthy (so far as anyone has found so far, stunningly healthy) and they are not supported in any meaningful way by the tobacco industry. Whereas with the tobacco industry after the mid 1960s, most smokers wanted to quit, with e-cigs most users are evangelical fans. Whereas convincing doctors smoking was bad was an easy sell, ecigs just do not have any measurable ill-effects.

While ANTZ is making inroads into public awareness, they are attacking the wrong enemy and finding unexpected resistance where they expect clear sailing. It is very possible that we can make an end-run around them while they are looking the wrong way.

But if we sit back and look guilty, like the smokers did, then they will beat ecigs just as easily as they have beaten cigarettes. We need to play to our strengths -- the quality and depth of objective, quantitative science, and the breadth and independence of our fan-base.

So we should be ready, willing and able to tell the detailed, objective truth at any opportunity. Always with good manners, of course.

BP and BT are two other monsters with different agendas and different strengths and weaknesses that will have to be handled differently.

 

[CKCalmer]

Oh man, that is a big no no in my book. Bringing up ecigs (sorry) to a client is very similar to bringing up religion.

People aren't, and I hope they will never be, nearly as volatile and fervent about vaping as religion. I haven't heard of anyone being shot to death because someone couldn't beat a vaper's argument regarding the safety of e-cigs.

 

[jwark]

This is getting worse and worse. I run into ecigarette haters almost every day now. Just last night I had conversation that went like this:

Soap box dude: "You guys are going to be in deep trouble when the results on ecigarettes come out"
Me: "They have spent a lot of money trying to prove they are harmful and have completely failed"
dude: "They are harmful, there's a lot of bad .... in them"
Me: "oh, is that scientific? A lot of bad ....?"
Dude: "yes it's scientific, nicotine is a pesticide" (..., at least his idiotic logic is original)
Me: "So what?"
Dude: "That has to be bad for you"
Me: "Because you say so?"

This went on and on. Most of these people just base this nonsense off a gut feeling I feel like.

But yeah, if you want to spread misinformation like that you better fully expect me to not just sit there and take it.

 

[Shootist]

This is getting worse and worse. I run into ecigarette haters almost every day now. Just last night I had conversation that went like this:

This went on and on. Most of these people just base this nonsense off a gut feeling I feel like.

But yeah, if you want to spread misinformation like that you better fully expect me to not just sit there and take it.

I did and will continue to handle this in a different way. Instead of debating with them I state facts. E-Liquid contains 4 basic ingredients, USP Propylene glycol, USP Vegetable glycerin, Flavorings which could contain other chemicals that are all FDA approved and nicotine IF you buy it with that included which you can buy it without any nicotine.

And then state that the first 3 are found in many food products and FDA approved already. No need to do any debating. I also state I have done the research on these substances and suggest they do the same before they go off half cocked.

If they persist I just tell them they are uninformed. Then walk away. That gets them the most, when I turn and walk away or I just walk by them and say have a good day/night/whatever.

 

[jwark]

I did and will continue to handle this in a different way. Instead of debating with them I state facts. E-Liquid contains 4 basic ingredients, USP Propylene glycol, USP Vegetable glycerin, Flavorings which could contain other chemicals that are all FDA approved and nicotine IF you buy it with that included which you can buy it without any nicotine.

And then state that the first 3 are found in many food products and FDA approved already. No need to do any debating. I also state I have done the research on these substances and suggest they do the same before they go off half cocked.

If they persist I just tell them they are uninformed. Then walk away. That gets them the most, when I turn and walk away or I just walk by them and say have a good day/night/whatever.

I used to be more calm about and like you but I'm getting really sick of it. The soap boxers are multiplying like flies.

 

[CKCalmer]

The more my impatience grows, the more pithy I become.

Person: "You're ingesting poison!"

Me: "Was it good?"

Person: "Uh...was what good?"

Me: "The Kool-Aid."

 

[faile]

Yesterday My daughter found out I was vaping. I hadn't told her because I didn't want to hear her sermon. She knows I've been struggling to quit smoking for some time. What I got was "Mom I am not happy with you using ecigs." I pointed out that I wasn't smoking anymore and she said" it still has chemicals in it". I let the subject drop and I walked away. There was nothing I could say to turn her thoughts around and it probably won't be brought up again. I vape at home in private anyway so it isn't going to bother me that she doesn't approve of it. My husband is very happy that I am not smo0king and he thinks my ecigs are cool so no matter what anyone else says I am happily vaping away!

And here I am trying my damnedest to get my mom to START vaping... Gonna get her the innokin starter kit from MBV with my next paycheck. Keep vaping away; we all think you're doing a great thing for yourself getting off the cigarettes anyway!

 

[KODIAK (TM)]

Indeed, we're all different. I was self-employed most of my life so I can understand personal working relationships to a degree and didn't mean to come across as aloof. . I have also been a paying client for many people and the notion to comment on how somebody smells just never crossed my mind. Telling folks their aroma is much better implies they stunk to high heaven at one time I'm sure that's not how she came across but this is the innerwebz

So what would you of done? Say something like "I don't care what you think about the way I smell". Or some other rude remark when someone is trying to pay you a compliment?

Of course not. I'd just smile, say thanks and move on.

But again, my relationships with people that involved the exchange of money were probably different.

 

[twgbonehead]

Look, what we need is a simple statement.

If someone says "Those things are as bad as cigarettes"

Say:

"Only if you buy those cheap convenience-store ones that are made by the cigarette companies. The real ones are very safe".

(and I don't expect to hear any arguments about how safe they are, that completely misses the point).

 

[CabinetGuyScott]

I did and will continue to handle this in a different way. Instead of debating with them I state facts. E-Liquid contains 4 basic ingredients, USP Propylene glycol, USP Vegetable glycerin, Flavorings which could contain other chemicals that are all FDA approved and nicotine IF you buy it with that included which you can buy it without any nicotine.

And then state that the first 3 are found in many food products and FDA approved already. No need to do any debating. I also state I have done the research on these substances and suggest they do the same before they go off half cocked.

If they persist I just tell them they are uninformed. Then walk away. That gets them the most, when I turn and walk away or I just walk by them and say have a good day/night/whatever.

"Vegetable glycerin sounds pretty innocuous all by itself, and the nicotine option defuses that one fairly well.

That just leaves Propylene glycol that is likely to be unknown to most, and probably the "scariest" sounding.

I like to point out that if they check their toothpaste ingredients, they'll find it listed right there! (know for sure it's in many Colgate products)

There's a 2-for-1 with this:
1) They themselves use it every single day, and now they KNOW it
2) Point out the 23,000 calls to Poison Control Centers over potential toothpaste overdose is 15 times as many as e-cigs (many of which were information gathering in scope!)

Presenting simple facts in a way that most people can relate to, makes it a very different conversation.

And one last thing: if they are a smoker, I ask if they've ever tried, or desire to quit. What has been their experience(?)

Now you can relate your comments to their experience.

And if the person is not a smoker, I ask if anyone close to them smoke(d) that they would have loved for them to have quit.

Make it personal to them

Simple facts they relate to, and make it "real"

 

[Baldr]

Look, what we need is a simple statement.

If someone says "Those things are as bad as cigarettes"

Say:

"Only if you buy those cheap convenience-store ones that are made by the cigarette companies. The real ones are very safe".

(and I don't expect to hear any arguments about how safe they are, that completely misses the point).

I don't think we should even hint that the cheap cigalike ones are worse than smoking. How many people have those killed? None, I suspect. You can say that a few of them, a very few, have somehow exploded or started a fire - but cigarettes have still started far more fires. Even the cheapest, low end gas station e-cig is still far safer than cigarettes.

 

[Hammerfyst]

"Vegetable glycerin sounds pretty innocuous all by itself, and the nicotine option defuses that one fairly well.

That just leaves Propylene glycol that is likely to be unknown to most, and probably the "scariest" sounding.

I like to point out that if they check their toothpaste ingredients, they'll find it listed right there! (know for sure it's in many Colgate products)

There's a 2-for-1 with this:
1) They themselves use it every single day, and now they KNOW it
2) Point out the 23,000 calls to Poison Control Centers over potential toothpaste overdose is 15 times as many as e-cigs (many of which were information gathering in scope!)

Presenting simple facts in a way that most people can relate to, makes it a very different conversation.

And one last thing: if they are a smoker, I ask if they've ever tried, or desire to quit. What has been their experience(?)

Now you can relate your comments to their experience.

And if the person is not a smoker, I ask if anyone close to them smoke(d) that they would have loved for them to have quit.

Make it personal to them

Simple facts they relate to, and make it "real"

I am going to use this next time I get questions. Luckily I work with a bunch or great people and they dont judge. Mainly it has been questions about what it is, and does it work. I respond with the fact that I was a PAD smoker for 31 years that hasn't had a cigarette in 50+ days. I have found that just this statement alone get's them curious enough to try it if they are a smoker. I have converted 5 people in my office to Vaping with one of them a 2 PAD for 43 years!!

 

[CKCalmer]

"Vegetable glycerin sounds pretty innocuous all by itself, and the nicotine option defuses that one fairly well.

That just leaves Propylene glycol that is likely to be unknown to most, and probably the "scariest" sounding.

I like to point out that if they check their toothpaste ingredients, they'll find it listed right there! (know for sure it's in many Colgate products)

There's a 2-for-1 with this:
1) They themselves use it every single day, and now they KNOW it
2) Point out the 23,000 calls to Poison Control Centers over potential toothpaste overdose is 15 times as many as e-cigs (many of which were information gathering in scope!)

Presenting simple facts in a way that most people can relate to, makes it a very different conversation.

And one last thing: if they are a smoker, I ask if they've ever tried, or desire to quit. What has been their experience(?)

Now you can relate your comments to their experience.

And if the person is not a smoker, I ask if anyone close to them smoke(d) that they would have loved for them to have quit.

Make it personal to them

Simple facts they relate to, and make it "real"

I never quote long posts when responding to someone. I cut the quote down to just the part I'm responding to, or I don't quote at all. But this one I'm quoting in full because of its wisdom. There are other posts in this thread that are really great, too. It's just that this one knocks it over the fence, in my opinion.

The only thing I might add is to memorize a few of the consumables which contain PG to use in the argument. It wouldn't take many. Just four or five common ones, that way the person to whom you're talking will likely be a fan of at least a couple of them, making your point even more "personal" to them.

I agree that propylene glycol is the "scariest sounding" e-liquid ingredient, which is why I'd give it the additional attention.

(Once you get them past the PG, though, just remember to NOT bring up the di-hydrogen monoxide. They'll run away screaming.)


EDIT: OK, I looked up a few. I'd pick five or so out of the following list to remember. I capitalized the ones that I think will hit home with more people than the others...

Cake mix, SALAD DRESSINGS, toothpaste (you already have that one), SOFT DRINKS, ICE CREAM, cake icing, food flavorings, food coloring, BEER, POPCORN, sour cream, mustard, soy sauce, dipping sauces and yogurt.

...and I just realized that there are exactly five that I capitalized. I promise I didn't do that on purpose. Kismet.


EDIT #2: OK, maybe focusing on the ones that are in "healthier" foods would be a better idea by reducing the "those are all foods that are bad for you" effect. Let's call sour cream, mustard, soy sauce, yogurt and food flavorings the "healthier" version of the list.

 

[Shootist]

"Vegetable glycerin sounds pretty innocuous all by itself, and the nicotine option defuses that one fairly well.

That just leaves Propylene glycol that is likely to be unknown to most, and probably the "scariest" sounding.

I like to point out that if they check their toothpaste ingredients, they'll find it listed right there! (know for sure it's in many Colgate products)

There's a 2-for-1 with this:
1) They themselves use it every single day, and now they KNOW it
2) Point out the 23,000 calls to Poison Control Centers over potential toothpaste overdose is 15 times as many as e-cigs (many of which were information gathering in scope!)

Presenting simple facts in a way that most people can relate to, makes it a very different conversation.

And one last thing: if they are a smoker, I ask if they've ever tried, or desire to quit. What has been their experience(?)

Now you can relate your comments to their experience.

And if the person is not a smoker, I ask if anyone close to them smoke(d) that they would have loved for them to have quit.

Make it personal to them

Simple facts they relate to, and make it "real"

Thank you for that information. I just looked at my Colgate TP tube and Yes PG is listed.

 

[Shootist]

I don't think we should even hint that the cheap cigalike ones are worse than smoking. How many people have those killed? None, I suspect. You can say that a few of them, a very few, have somehow exploded or started a fire - but cigarettes have still started far more fires. Even the cheapest, low end gas station e-cig is still far safer than cigarettes.

I completely agree. And I would Assume the ingredients in even the cheaper throw away style vaporizers are the same as used in others.

 

[Shootist]

I am going to use this next time I get questions. Luckily I work with a bunch or great people and they dont judge. Mainly it has been questions about what it is, and does it work. I respond with the fact that I was a PAD smoker for 31 years that hasn't had a cigarette in 50+ days. I have found that just this statement alone get's them curious enough to try it if they are a smoker. I have converted 5 people in my office to Vaping with one of them a 2 PAD for 43 years!!

I play golf with a lady friend and a few weeks ago, maybe 4-5 weeks ago, she ask what I was vaping as it smelled like cotton candy. I don't remember what it was I was vaping at the time.

Last week while playing she asked what brand Cig-A-Like I was using as I stated, at that time, I had not smoked a cigarette in 42 day and I related that I couldn't believe in those 42 days I would of smoked 1050 cigarettes. She then ask the name again and wrote it down.

This week she had just gotten the starter kit from Halo. She is still smoking but at least hopefully she will switch over. This is the second person I have helped start the journey down the road of getting off cigarettes.
This would not of happened without all of you and all the people that came before me on that same road.

Thank you. (I think I'll have a Vape).

 

[CKCalmer]

This week she had just gotten the starter kit from Halo.

Halo's definitely a good one to recommend, in my opinion. It's the brand that got me away from smoking for good. I'm sure that there are other brands that are just as good as Halo, or perhaps even better. But I know from experience the effectiveness of Halo's e-cigs.

 

[Richie G]

Make it personal to them

Simple facts they relate to, and make it "real"

You *were* captain of the debate team, weren't you Scott? =) Flawlessly logical. Bravo.

If someone is TRULY interested, which admittedly has been kind of rare in my experience (maybe it's the ignorant company I keep? <g>), I go into more depth on PG than just tooth paste...

"One of the major challenges the researchers faced early on was finding a substance that could be mixed with the cyclosporine to enable patients to safely inhale the drug without irritating their throat or lungs. They decided to combine the cyclosporine with propylene glycol, which allowed the drug to be administered as an aerosol. Novartis Pharmaceuticals provided the cyclosporine powder, which was then compounded by the researchers."

Study shows inhaled medicine improves survival for lung transplant patients

So, there goes the "but you are *inhaling* the PG, THAT has to be bad" argument.