RBA - Rebuildable Atomizers- Throw away the Ohm Chart

[niczgreat]

When you get into the world of rba you can throw the Ohms Charts out the windows. This is my theory and comments are welcome

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There are many factors why you can vape on an rba at Wattage that would smoke a stock atomizer.

It's not about the voltage or the Watts it's about the temperature of the coils. The stock atomizers compact a lot of coils into a small space with little airfllow and minimal wicking material. This is a recipe for heat buildup which will fry your wick and your coils.

Generally an RBA uses lower gauge wire which has lower resistance and is thicker. The wires are more spread out , though some like to build coils together. Either way there is more surface area exposed to the coils. In addition RBA is more open generally with better air flow. The wicks are thicker. All these factors combine to keep the wire temperature lower by absorbing the heat from the coils.

Do it right and you can vape at levels that would leave a crater in your APV on a stock atomizer/clearomizer/cartomizer.

I'm currently vaping on a Bottom Feeding Variable Volt Bogger Box at 1 Ohm. My RBA is a Reomizer. Wick is Porous Ceramic and the Kanthal is 4 wraps of 29gauge.

I'm at 4.5V which is around 20 Watts. It's a great vape.

By the way my wicks of choice are Porous Ceramic, Braided Ceramic, SS 400 Mesh. I like em all because they don't burn.

*a little trick. The lower the Gauge the wire, the stiffer it is. I like 28Gauge and 29Gauge and have found that if I heat the wire over a stove [Now I use a blow torch] until it is red than the wire becomes less stiff and easier to handle.

 

[vapdivrr]

love the porous ceramic wicks, and have been vaoing them for about 4 months now, I also love the thicker gauge wire, I use 26 as the thickest to 30 for the thinnest. my coils range from .7 to 1.2 and absolutely been loving the vape. one question as I am unfamiliar with your mod, the bogger box, how are you able to get that voltage with a 1-ohm coil? I normally use a mechanical mod with my coils at or below 1-ohm, and use a provari v-2 for my coils above 1 -ohm. as you probably know with the provari, about 3.5v is the max it will give you on a 1-ohm coil, and with a mechanical mod you also know the volts that gives you, about 4v. so do you stack batterys? or is this mod somehow protected to higher power like the new dna20? also do you hot wrap your wire, or do you do the electric wrap.

 

[niczgreat]

love the porous ceramic wicks, and have been vaoing them for about 4 months now, I also love the thicker gauge wire, I use 26 as the thickest to 30 for the thinnest. my coils range from .7 to 1.2 and absolutely been loving the vape. one question as I am unfamiliar with your mod, the bogger box, how are you able to get that voltage with a 1-ohm coil? I normally use a mechanical mod with my coils at or below 1-ohm, and use a provari v-2 for my coils above 1 -ohm. as you probably know with the provari, about 3.5v is the max it will give you on a 1-ohm coil, and with a mechanical mod you also know the volts that gives you, about 4v. so do you stack batterys? or is this mod somehow protected to higher power like the new dna20? also do you hot wrap your wire, or do you do the electric wrap.

My Bottom Feeding Bogger Box uses Stacked 18350 Batteries and steps down the voltage.
I do a thorough description and demo in this thread [Even a Movie]
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...28710-vv-bogger-box-mechanical-destroyer.html

Sounds like from your description you are a candidate for this box.
I'm going to be testing it at .7Ohm tonight and if it works than the VV will vape great in the range that you specified.

The nice thing about the VV is that I've been vaping over two hours at the same 1 Ohm at 4.5V none of that Start High and cool down.
Also because it's putting out 4.5V under load that's really equal to around 5V on a mechanical when you consider voltage drop. So I'm at a level way higher than your mechanical box.

It will take my 1 Ohm up to 4.9V but I prefer the 4.5V

I like the lower resistance wire too and don't use above 29 . I just put over the stove or blow torch it right before I wrap.

I have a Natural Stabilized Wood, Bottom Feeding DNA20D Bogger Box on order, should arrive in around a month.The one I'm using is the regular VV. I can't wait to compare the two. The VV Bogger Box is only partly protected it has much higher tolerances than the Bottle Rockets.

Bottom Feeding is the Bomb.
A VV Bottom Feeding Bogger Box blows the socks off of any topfeeder [Arguably]

 

[vapdivrr]

no doubt its higher then my mechanical mod with one battery, for the most part the average voltage is probably like 3.7v. im actually quite happy with these voltages, especially with my average resistance of .8Ω, which puts me in the 18watt range. what I do like is the constant voltages your talking about. may have to look into this device. what I do have my eyes on is the cyborg, but don't say anything, its a secret, well maybe not, anyways this, for me is what I have been looking for, for a long time, a protected vv device that gives you 20 watts, and its a tube mod which I prefer. don't know to much on bottom feeders, what attys can you use on them? is there any advantages to using with a genesis atty? I always thought they were just for regular carts and regular dripping attys. basically I just use genesis, and am going to try my agi as a dripper for the first time when my xc comes in. so you just heat your wire on a stove and just wrap it around a porous ceramic wick? you don't get any gaps? with 29g and thicker I have always found it hard to get a really tight coil on porous ceramic resulting in a break in period of the wick. by hot wrapping or electrically wrapping I have found it better to get a really tight coil with no break in time. usually 29 & 30 I do an electric wrap, and anything thicker I hot wrap.

 

[Kemosabe]

Does a hot wrap or electric wrap happen to help on a SS wick as well? If so, what exactly is a hot/electrical wrap?

 

[cckk]

tomzgreat,

It seems that no one commented the crux of your first post so I try that.

For some time I compared Smoktech The Natural and Smoktech RSST with VAMO V2 and AGA-T2. Both MODs worked with 18650 3400 mAh batteries and both atomizers used 1.6 Ω coils. I calculated the initial and the final power produced by The Natural when the battery voltage drops from 4.2 to 3.6 V. Then I vaped the same liquid using at the same time both The Natural and VAMO. My goal was to achieve with VAMO the same taste and throat hit which I achieve with The Natural. I checked all the power range offered by VAMO and it turned out that I can’t force it to produce the same results as The Natural.

The Ohm’s law can’t explain that phenomenon. Your hypothesis explains it easily. RSST and AGA-T2 in my tests offered the same 1.6 Ω resistance. Both these atomizers used the coils made from the same Kanthal 0.25 mm wire and the wicks made from the same mesh 400. But the taste and throat hit were different although I checked the entire VAMO V2 wattage scale. Different results achieved with both mentioned atomizers may be explained by different diameters of the wicks and by different numbers of the coil loops. Both these variables cause that less or “more surface area [is] exposed to the coils”.

So it seems to me that your hypothesis deserves more attention.

 

[killua086]

This is true, before i was using V-core 2.0 tank, vaping around 9w and it burns my juice at 9.5 to 10w, now using RDA vaping at 11w and it doesnt burn any of my juice and i think i need a mechanical to get more vapor out of this (using EVIC right now)

 

[Sickkboy]

This thread http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-not-matter-its-all-about-wire-temp-read.html are discuss the point that you're making. At least from what i think.

 

[Kanj.nguyen]

Um... I dont know how to put this without hurting your feelings, but uh... You dont say?

All youre doing in an RBA is to balance between the electricity heating up the coil and other factors such as saturation of wick and air flow to cool it down, so that your coil stays longer in the grey zone between burning and not producing vapor. I wouldve assumed this was intuitive to any rebuilder, but hey...

Glad some found this helpful though.

 

[Kanj.nguyen]

tomzgreat,

It seems that no one commented the crux of your first post so I try that.

For some time I compared Smoktech The Natural and Smoktech RSST with VAMO V2 and AGA-T2. Both MODs worked with 18650 3400 mAh batteries and both atomizers used 1.6 Ω coils. I calculated the initial and the final power produced by The Natural when the battery voltage drops from 4.2 to 3.6 V. Then I vaped the same liquid using at the same time both The Natural and VAMO. My goal was to achieve with VAMO the same taste and throat hit which I achieve with The Natural. I checked all the power range offered by VAMO and it turned out that I can’t force it to produce the same results as The Natural.

The Ohm’s law can’t explain that phenomenon. Your hypothesis explains it easily. RSST and AGA-T2 in my tests offered the same 1.6 Ω resistance. Both these atomizers used the coils made from the same Kanthal 0.25 mm wire and the wicks made from the same mesh 400. But the taste and throat hit were different although I checked the entire VAMO V2 wattage scale. Different results achieved with both mentioned atomizers may be explained by different diameters of the wicks and by different numbers of the coil loops. Both these variables cause that less or “more surface area [is] exposed to the coils”.

So it seems to me that your hypothesis deserves more attention.

Did you switch atties at all between the two batteries? Otherwise youre not doing a controlled test.

Also, Ohm's law does not explain what you experienced simply because it had nothing to do with it. Ohm's law dictates that you are putting out the same level of power, which is correct. But what matters is what goes in, that is, how power is being distributed and utilized to vaporize the juice.

Think about it like a car. Two cars can burn fuel at the exact same rate while running totally differently.

 

[Kanj.nguyen]

Does a hot wrap or electric wrap happen to help on a SS wick as well? If so, what exactly is a hot/electrical wrap?

It means keeping your wire at a high temperature while wrapping. This way when you finish wrapping, the coil cools down and contracts, resulting in a super tight coil around the wick. Hot wrapping is done by keeping the part of the wire youre wrapping over a flame, and electrical wrapping is essentially the same thing but you use current running through it instead of fire to keep it hot.

I have found this helpful with porous ceramic, whose porous surface makes it hard for the wire to make proper contact. But not so much with SS wicks since well, there is no reason to.

 

[cckk]

Sickkboy,

Thank you very much. Very interesting and extensive reading.

Kanj.nguyen,

I’m very glad to meet you again in some thread. Greetings from Poland!

Switching the atomizers is in this case purposeless. If I put RSST on VAMO and align the voltage of VAMO with the voltage of The Natural the result will be the same. In the other case it will be the other. I may also use VAMO with AGA-T2 setting its voltage to the same as the voltage of the battery in The Natural and then put AGA-T2 into The Natural and the result will be the same again. In the other case it will be the other.

Recently I discovered some issue concerning VAMO and the battery usage in the comparison to the mechanical MOD. I started the thread about that here: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/vamo/446351-vamo-v2-problem-effectiveness-device.html. In that case switching the atomizers is also purposeless but I did that to stay with clear conscience. I still perform some tests so that thread isn’t closed yet.

I didn’t neglect the Ohm’s law and I’m sure you know that. It works because it has to work but it doesn’t explain everything like the numerous ECF members think. The thread opened by gdeal recommended here by Sickkboy stays probably behind the post by tomzgreat which opened the present thread. It meets also my doubts concerning the universal interpretation of the Ohm’s law.

I test now long coils recommended by gdeal. I’m at the beginning of that way because at the same time I test the battery usage by VAMO.

Thank you for your reply.

 

[Kanj.nguyen]

Sickkboy,

Thank you very much. Very interesting and extensive reading.

Kanj.nguyen,

I’m very glad to meet you again in some thread. Greetings from Poland!

Switching the atomizers is in this case purposeless. If I put RSST on VAMO and align the voltage of VAMO with the voltage of The Natural the result will be the same. In the other case it will be the other. I may also use VAMO with AGA-T2 setting its voltage to the same as the voltage of the battery in The Natural and then put AGA-T2 into The Natural and the result will be the same again. In the other case it will be the other.

Recently I discovered some issue concerning VAMO and the battery usage in the comparison to the mechanical MOD. I started the thread about that here: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/vamo/446351-vamo-v2-problem-effectiveness-device.html. In that case switching the atomizers is also purposeless but I did that to stay with clear conscience. I still perform some tests so that thread isn’t closed yet.

I didn’t neglect the Ohm’s law and I’m sure you know that. It works because it has to work but it doesn’t explain everything like the numerous ECF members think. The thread opened by gdeal recommended here by Sickkboy stays probably behind the post by tomzgreat which opened the present thread. It meets also my doubts concerning the universal interpretation of the Ohm’s law.

I test now long coils recommended by gdeal. I’m at the beginning of that way because at the same time I test the battery usage by VAMO.

Thank you for your reply.

Well, first of all, the VAMO is an electronic device which uses power for the built-in booster so that should explain what you perceived as its inefficiency in using battery power.

Second, switching atties in the test is not purposeless because even at the same resistance you cannot expect the two atomizers to behave the same way. There are many more factors, many of them far more important than wattage as i have pointed out before; the only thing that matters is input mechanism. Ohm's law clearly doesnt explain everything as i have also mentioned; it only dictates the output rate. Im not sure what you mean by the universal intepretation of Ohm's law: im pretty sure everyone knows same wattage doesnt mean same vape. Those who think otherwise are misinformed and grossly oversimplifying things; although i cant imagine how someone would have that kind of rudimentary misconception. My point is that i struggle to see how tomzgreat's "hypothesis" is new information or worthy of further studies. Its kind of obvious. Unless im missing something you wanted to say.

Lastly, i hear Poland is really nice when its not snowing all the time and the girls are pretty my friend has been nagging me to come visit.