RCR 123a. Size

[chewy]

Hello, it's been a long time since I have posted anything but I had a question and hoped you guys could help. I have been using a apex ultramax with 2x tenergy rcr123a batts, I used them for about 7 months and I would say they are about at the end of their life. I ordered two ultrafire batteries labeled icr123a they have the same voltage, 2v empty and 3.6 v full. They are both li-ion so I used the same charger. Anyway before a long story gets longer the batteries are about 3-4 mm to long total. One of the tenergy batteries has a dent in the end making it about that much shorter, would it be possible to cut the casing on the ultrafires flatten the end and tape it back up? Just thought I would get your input. Will be investing in lifepo4s and a new charger of course once I move was hoping for something to tie me over about a month.
Don't think this section was meant literally as 'battery mods' but figured this would be the best place to ask. Thanks!

 

[Rader2146]

I dont think your new batteries are the same type/chemistry as your tenergy's. ICR is the standard li-ion cobalt chemistry, 4.2v full charge, 3.6/3.7 nominal voltage. The Tenergy's are LiFePo4 with a, IIRC, 3.2v max and 3.0 nominal. You cannot use the same charger! Or bad things may happen. The addition of the protection circuit explains why they are too long.

Edit: almost forgot the most important part. DO NOT, under any circumstances, try to open or modify the batteries.

Edit II: looked it up. LiFePo4 Max voltage 3.6v.

 

[chewy]

Tenergy makes li-ion that are blue colored and lifepo4 that are green. The description of the ultra fire just stated li-ion not li-ion cobalt. I am positive the tenergy I have are li-ion 3.6 2.0 high low respectively. I do understand lifepo4 is not compatible with li-ion but is li-ion compatible with li-ion cobolt? I will follow the advice of not opening the case I do appreciate that!

Edit: not positive of voltage but that was in the description online, but again li-ion cobalt was completely omitted so I suppose online descriptions should be taken with a grain of salt

 

[Rader2146]

Li-Ion is the technology, or family, of batteries. Within the Li-Ion family is the 3 common chemistries that we typically use for e-cigs: Lithium Cobalt (LiCoO2); Lithium Manganese, aka IMR (LiMn2O4); and Lithium Phosphate (LiFePo4). Even though they are different chemistries, they are all still Li-Ion. Cobalt and Manganees types are compatable when it comes to voltage, chargers and devices that they are used in. Phosphate type is not compatable due to different voltage and charge requirements.

You are correct about the descriptions. They often don't contain some vital information and battery data sheets are near impossible because almost everything is re-wrapped and re-branded.

More info here: Types of Lithium-ion Batteries

 

[chewy]

Oh my... Re wrapped an re branded, I figured there was a reason they were cheaper. I guess the only way to be safe is to buy a reputable brand, and maybe safer even then would be to buy the sets of batteries that come with a charger. you have gotten me worried, it is probably a good thing. I have seen a lot covered on the aw batteries, knowing now my size concerns and trying to keep cost low, while safety high do you have a recommendation? I know cost and safety probably don't go hand in hand, I have seen that leifepo4s are safer and I currently have the stock charger that comes with the blue tenergy batteries if you know of anything compatable. Thank you again for opening my eyes.

 

[Rader2146]

Re-wrapped and re-branded isn't that big of deal. It just makes it hard to find the manufacturers data sheet. There are only a handful of manufacturers that produce the actual raw cells; Panasonic, Sanyo, Samsung, ect. Then there are the first tier resellers; Tenergy, Ultra/Trustfire, Orbtronics, AW, ect. They will add the protection circuit as needed and put thier label on the cell. Re-wrapped and re-branded is not really a bad thing, but there are differences in the way they do it. AW tests and hand picks the cream of the crop, resulting in a very high quality product with few bad seeds. The ____fires are not tested and hand picked, meaning out of 1000 batteries you will have half above average performers and half below average performers. Depending on your application, you have to decide if you are willing to accept the fact that you might recieve a below average cell.

LiFePo4 is a "more safe" chemistry, meaning that they typically aren't violent in the case of catastrophic failure. If you were happy with the Tenergy's, you would be fine to stick with the same batteries. If you want to explore other options then it's hard to go wrong with AW. Here is a good source for AW LiFePo4's:

AW LiFePO4 RCR 123

And they will work fine with this charger if this is te same one that you have:

Tenergy Li-Ion RCR123A 3.0V 900mAh Rechargeable Batteries w/Smart Charger

 

[chewy]

Thank you for all of your help, ended up ordering these:
http://www.amazon.com/Kits-RCR123A-...id=1342394847&sr=8-3&keywords=Lifepo4+tenergy
Came with a charger and about the same price just to be safe. I figure with 6 even if a few are sub par I have enough to last regardless. I may get lucky and have 6 good performers also.