Got it. So now I have a new tinker project. Next build parallel vs. twisted!Yep, just like the slick bro…a better contact patch…more rubber meets the road.
G'luck
ReadyXWick - Round 2
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Look up the turbocoiler build in the coil forum, I played with the gizmo for a while and had pretty good luck when I touched the wire, but the turbocoiler builds coils as close to perfect as I've gotten. I did have to burden up a some wire before I got them to come out every time, but once I did I can whip out a new coil in 5 min.
What's it take to get tensioned?
At the end of the day it doesn't matter how you get it…but it must stretch the wire. Haven't tried tc's mod yet. Eager to see if compression is required to get them to fire evenly end-to-end (not inside out). That's the product of closest fit. I can accomplish it with 24AWG but some days I lose more than I wind. Got the big spools at 5" diameter (100') of 25AWG from Kidney Puncher and I can put a bit more muscle into that using the spool edge for leverage. So I've been able to forego a jig lately. I've yet to be able to produce consistent t.m.c.'s on a gizmo or jig. I tend to over tighten. Made one from wood that was simple and worked but messed up the bit guide holes quickly with all the winds I do.
Like I said, the goal with strain is to get them just tight enough that they fire inside out within one or two pulses from low voltage. Then as oxidation sets in they won't and that's what signals you've arrived at evenly developed insulation. If they continue firing hot from center as all standard winds do; it will work but you won't experience the rad phase transition of a uniform t.m.c. (higher vapor density). The tell on over tightening is you'll easily go from red to yellow within a couple'a secs. And frequently even both leads can actually go hot if tension in them matches the wind's (typical for a jig wound).
Lot of folks copying my tensioned coils on jigs these days and selling them commercially. Have a problem with that because it seems they haven't the foggiest why they work or not…Nor care about anything other than the appearance of the wind as if this gets you where you want to go. Frequently if over-strained such coils can go far hotter than a standard vape even when juiced (wick runs dry). Some folks think this is a great vape. No, actually it's a short and less is more for contact micro's as the goal is to match the power to the wicking effectively to max out vapor. More than the wind can reasonably fit means just more hot air. Not necessarily vaporization.
Don't want to belabor the point but I don't see why so many seem to go out of their way to avoid a pin vise. It is by far the easiest way to detect the level of stress being applied as it hits the bit. And that is an essential part of actually getting to closest proximity without under or over shooting it. Can't state it any more simply. It's the detection that's essential to getting it, learning it and most importantly…repeating it.
Complex mechanical jigs can certainly do it with the appropriate drag settings. But finding the mark for each wire gauge and wind requires repeated testing. I'm interested in all these solutions as I can't hand wind all too frequently. So my hat's off to you all for tryin'.
Good luck TX.
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So far I'm just looking at getting something out that is fairly consistent, and so far the turbo coiler seems to do that best. I'm sure it's not perfect, and it took a bit of learning to get it right. So far it's the easiest thing I've used that should create even tension, wheather or not it's correct is another thing. I do think it would be easy enough to adapt something to the pliers to squeeze them the correct amount at this time I'm not sure what that is or how to go about measuring it. Maybe with a little encouragement someone could figure that out. I believe the point of the project was to create the cheapest most basic system that would accomplish the task.
Unfortunately at the moment I don't have a whole lot of time or wire to burn through to try a get a coil that glows evenly across, but I'll play with that when I get a chance.
Unfortunately at the moment I don't have a whole lot of time or wire to burn through to try a get a coil that glows evenly across, but I'll play with that when I get a chance.
I have never explored the coiler/jig world. I have just always used my crude method. I broke off a tip from a 16 gauge leur needle and put it in a pin vice. I put a permanent mark on my pin vice with a sharpie, I then just loosen it up slightly, put in the wire at the mark, tighten it back down and wind directly from the spool applying tension by pulling on the spool as I wind with the pin vice. I count the wraps by counting how many time the little black mark comes around then cut, loosen the vice, slide off, all done. They don't come out perfect I'm sure but to eye they come out good and I have had no issues with hot legs etc.
I have never explored the coiler/jig world. I have just always used my crude method. I broke off a tip from a 16 gauge leur needle and put it in a pin vice. I put a permanent mark on my pin vice with a sharpie, I then just loosen it up slightly, put in the wire at the mark, tighten it back down and wind directly from the spool applying tension by pulling on the spool as I wind with the pin vice. I count the wraps by counting how many time the little black mark comes around then cut, loosen the vice, slide off, all done. They don't come out perfect I'm sure but to eye they come out good and I have had no issues with hot legs etc.
If they're spreading at all rudy, you're still shy of the tight fit we're lookin' for. What I refer to as closest proximity. Stands to reason that the more firm the pressure on the iron, the better the press. Same principle. As close as nature allows is exactly that.
Then…when you pulse you get very quick oxidation. Very even insulation. That's the goal. That's what turns a shorting contact coil into a proper complete circuit much less likely to produce hot turns or leads…in operation. TRUE…good symmetry will give you a working result. But that stability changes the minute we apply a working power level (resistance goes up in operation). More than the 3.5-3.7V that we use to pulse the coil.
The higher the power we intend to use the better the insulation must be. Strain in the wire keeps the wind tight. Gives every pulse we apply the best chance of layin' down alumina in a consistent way. There's where the payoff is. And what is that benefit? We've reduced the amount of wasted energy that would otherwise bypass the circuit.
All winds work. But that's not what we're talkin' about here. It's how good an insulation we put down for the power we want to apply.
I pitch tension winding because it's been used forever. From the first time we wound wire into hoops for chain. For us this ancient tech has an electrical benefit. And it's extremely easy to do. But a blunt needle may not be firm enough to let you strain the wire if it's a thicker gauge.
Don't forget it's about leverage and using the edge of the spool as a rest for the bit. This is key. It's what let's you multiply the force by letting you pull against the wire using the light strength of both forearms. Rather than just wrists or fingers. These we want more relaxed to sense the pressure we're applying to the spool, the bit and the wire. Shake out your hands if you get tight.
In your case for 3mm, a used 3/32" drill bit will do ya just fine. Start with a few loose wraps until you see them tighten. Then practice adding just a little more pull. The result you will eventually see in your vape with a significant cool down of the vapor. In fact, more of it as due to the even distribution of heat across the coil (rather than lost to air). As I note often, the tell for too much strain is when the heat goes up for the same wind.
If you've used just enough and just a tad more than needed to get 'em to stick together as in my above you're going to be golden.
You can also use strain to make open winds that are rigid and stable on a screw using the same pin vise. While it won't produce the concentrated power of a tensioned micro if well oxidized will resist warping much better.
Good luck rudy.
Ok, built a couple of them this morning, first one worked, but I thought I could do better. Second one lit up evenly all the way across, unfortunately is felt the need to mess with it to get it to sit a little better in the center of my Nuppin and now it fires from the center out. So it's possible to get the correct even tension using the turbo coiler without doing a lot of extra work. Running low on wire and wick right now so I'll play with it some more once I've resupplied those things.
I'm not an engineer and don't understand all the forces being applied in the jaws. Unless there is something going on I'm not aware of, and that's likely, if there was a way to consistently close the jaws the same amount then you should get the same tension. Maybe a stop between the handles or a mark on the hinge.
I'm not an engineer and don't understand all the forces being applied in the jaws. Unless there is something going on I'm not aware of, and that's likely, if there was a way to consistently close the jaws the same amount then you should get the same tension. Maybe a stop between the handles or a mark on the hinge.
So, I tried my first parallel coil.
I did it as suggested. Looped the wire around 1 pin vise with small hex shaft installed, wedged it in a drawer and stretched out evenly with tension and started the wind on other pin vise with my 16g needle attachment. Did 9 winds with 29guage wire and came out to .8 -.9 ohms, right around my sweet spot. Mounted and fired up and it glowed nice and even, starting in the middle and working out. Pulsed a few more time and glowed nice and even. No hot legs or hot spots. Guess I got lucky on my first try! Inserted my RxW and gave it a try. I gave it a chance to "break in" and after about 1/3 of a bottle was run thru it was running fantastic.
I did a side by side comparison to my twisted coil build with same specs and did find a slight difference. Maybe it was my mind telling me there was a difference but I did notice that it seemed like the parallel heated up smooth and even and there was no popping or spitting and slowly warmed the vape to a nice warm temperature at a steady pace. Seemed less drastic of a heat up than the twisted. Also produced a nice thick cloud which I attribute to the juice clinging to the wraps better and more even covering and absorption thru the wick?
All I know is that I like it so far. I am going to keep both builds and compare a little longer.
Thank you for the building tip Mac!
I did it as suggested. Looped the wire around 1 pin vise with small hex shaft installed, wedged it in a drawer and stretched out evenly with tension and started the wind on other pin vise with my 16g needle attachment. Did 9 winds with 29guage wire and came out to .8 -.9 ohms, right around my sweet spot. Mounted and fired up and it glowed nice and even, starting in the middle and working out. Pulsed a few more time and glowed nice and even. No hot legs or hot spots. Guess I got lucky on my first try!
Inserted my RxW and gave it a try. I gave it a chance to "break in" and after about 1/3 of a bottle was run thru it was running fantastic.I did a side by side comparison to my twisted coil build with same specs and did find a slight difference. Maybe it was my mind telling me there was a difference but I did notice that it seemed like the parallel heated up smooth and even and there was no popping or spitting and slowly warmed the vape to a nice warm temperature at a steady pace. Seemed less drastic of a heat up than the twisted. Also produced a nice thick cloud which I attribute to the juice clinging to the wraps better and more even covering and absorption thru the wick?
All I know is that I like it so far. I am going to keep both builds and compare a little longer.
Thank you for the building tip Mac!
MacTechVpr
I've been looking at Pin Vises all day on Amazon and eBay
Can you Please supply a link to the best Pin Vise you have found for tension winding coils?
I was looking for one with a non tapered section near the jaws for resting on the edge of the spool
But I couldn't come up with anything
Thanx in advance
I've been looking at Pin Vises all day on Amazon and eBay
Can you Please supply a link to the best Pin Vise you have found for tension winding coils?
I was looking for one with a non tapered section near the jaws for resting on the edge of the spool
But I couldn't come up with anything
Thanx in advance
About the best is the common brass pin vise with swivel head featured on Amazon. Accommodates the widest range of bits, good grip and the collet is narrow which is very helpful for butting up against posts to align your coils. I recommend it. Keep the coil on the bit at all times and use the PV from both ends to localize the coil and tension the leads…first positive then negative…while butting the end turn. Do that and you will end up with one pristine coil that's retained adhesion through the build. Important if you want the coil still wanting to be a coil when you pulse to oxidize. Then you'll thank yourself.
Check out my blog page…A Pin Vise is a perfect tension winding tool…for links on various sources. Try to keep it updated and did so today as luck would have it.
G'luck tob.
Check out my blog page…A Pin Vise is a perfect tension winding tool…for links on various sources. Try to keep it updated and did so today as luck would have it.
G'luck tob.
I've got to drag this back up where I can find it.
I've noticed that my last bit 3mm was requiring more frequent cleaning so I ordered some more. Unfortunately the post office seems to have misplaced it and I'm now a week past the date they said it would be here. I finally went back to the last bit of 2mil that I had left and built did a couple of dual coil builds that are quite an improvement on the worn out 3mil.
My standard cleaning of the 3mm has been a little soak in water if the wick won't move and then a burn with a dip in the faucet at which point the wick will slide and the coil comes out clean. Then I torch the long end of the wick, slide it out the other end of the coil and torch that part that was in the coil and everything works like new. I think that's a bit abusive, but it's fast and I can do it just about anywhere if I have my pen torch. I tried it a couple of time without the torch and it take the flavor a while to build back up while the water works it way out of the wick.
From what I remember from the last time I used 2mm is 1/16th coil works best and the wick completely feel apart the first time I tried to clean it. So the question is how often should I be cleaning since this stuff isn't as durable? Any tips would be appreciated. I do t want to have to learn how to wick cotton if this falls apart before the replacements arrive.
I've noticed that my last bit 3mm was requiring more frequent cleaning so I ordered some more. Unfortunately the post office seems to have misplaced it and I'm now a week past the date they said it would be here. I finally went back to the last bit of 2mil that I had left and built did a couple of dual coil builds that are quite an improvement on the worn out 3mil.
My standard cleaning of the 3mm has been a little soak in water if the wick won't move and then a burn with a dip in the faucet at which point the wick will slide and the coil comes out clean. Then I torch the long end of the wick, slide it out the other end of the coil and torch that part that was in the coil and everything works like new. I think that's a bit abusive, but it's fast and I can do it just about anywhere if I have my pen torch. I tried it a couple of time without the torch and it take the flavor a while to build back up while the water works it way out of the wick.
From what I remember from the last time I used 2mm is 1/16th coil works best and the wick completely feel apart the first time I tried to clean it. So the question is how often should I be cleaning since this stuff isn't as durable? Any tips would be appreciated. I do t want to have to learn how to wick cotton if this falls apart before the replacements arrive.
I've got 5 ft of 4mm coming. I've only used 2mm and I just dry burn and go. Coils usually last a few months.
I hope that's the case, like an idiot I waited until I was out to reorder. Has anyone determined a good size coil for the 4mm? I got a sample pack to try some out in addition to 3ft of 3mm. Now that I've gotten everything with the REO's dialed in and I have plenty of time I want to play with the RxW and the OCC Kanger coils again.
The best size I found for the 4mm RxW was a 3.5mm coil. Unfortunately most of my RDA's are of the mini 22mm sort and it is pretty compact inside them for the 4mm. As to cleaning, as Ray mentioned its just a pulse dry burn on all my others that I have. I tried the water rinse in the past and had problems with it falling apart on me quickly. I have had the best results with the 3mm in a 2.5mm coil to this point so far.
Has anyone tried the 4mm in a hefty atty? I run 22mm Dark Horses and i'm not bothered about juice consumption. I run 0.3Ω duals typically.
In the past i have used the 2mm and 3mm and found the 3mm to be the most robust; so i was wondering if the 4mm is better still?
For maintenance: 2mm gets used in HRH's atties - just a dry burn. Blow torching wrecks it unless you are very gentle.
My 3mm - i typically unscrew it from the coils and make new coils, blowtorch the wick and go again. When it gets too tatty on the ends to thread nicely, i feel obliged to grudgingly use another inch of wick having achieved about 4 months or more from the last ones!
T
In the past i have used the 2mm and 3mm and found the 3mm to be the most robust; so i was wondering if the 4mm is better still?
For maintenance: 2mm gets used in HRH's atties - just a dry burn. Blow torching wrecks it unless you are very gentle.
My 3mm - i typically unscrew it from the coils and make new coils, blowtorch the wick and go again. When it gets too tatty on the ends to thread nicely, i feel obliged to grudgingly use another inch of wick having achieved about 4 months or more from the last ones!
T
I tried the 4mm out in a Bonsai and there just wasn't enough air flow in it to get a satisfying vape. I have a Dark Horse mini I am getting ready to set up that has a little more room in it and much more air flow. I think where the 4mm would really shine though would be a vertical set up or even in a genny.
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I cannot get the airflow in a Genny and ofc the purists would crucify you for suggesting anything other than SS mesh wick!
i'll give the 4mm a bash i reckon since most of my coils would already be considered macros.
T
i'll give the 4mm a bash i reckon since most of my coils would already be considered macros.
T
Yeah, I got mail today. 
I'm not sure what happened to that first piece of 2mm, after a bath and a burn it almost fell out of the coil it was so broken apart. When that happened I was already building better coils using the 3mm so I just moved on. I haven't found anything as quick as a few drops of water to clean off the coil itself, it doesn't seem to have an adverse effect on the 3mm, I try not to pull the wick that out of the coil anymore because of the fraying that it causes.
I think my Kevlar ski rope is thinner than the 4mm
It's huge. I was hoping that it would work of the Subtank OCC coils, but now that I have it it's not looking like it will go through the hole in sides of the atomizer. Oh well, at least I'll have it when I find something big enough to use it.
I'm not sure what happened to that first piece of 2mm, after a bath and a burn it almost fell out of the coil it was so broken apart. When that happened I was already building better coils using the 3mm so I just moved on. I haven't found anything as quick as a few drops of water to clean off the coil itself, it doesn't seem to have an adverse effect on the 3mm, I try not to pull the wick that out of the coil anymore because of the fraying that it causes.
I think my Kevlar ski rope is thinner than the 4mm
It's huge. I was hoping that it would work of the Subtank OCC coils, but now that I have it it's not looking like it will go through the hole in sides of the atomizer. Oh well, at least I'll have it when I find something big enough to use it.
I use a 3/32 drill bit for the 3mm which is just a bit smaller than 2.5mm. Took a bit of trimming off frayed pieces to get it wick at first, now it slips in like it belongs there.
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