rechargable lithium ion/polymer batteries

[mwa102464]

I posed this question over a year and a half ago here on ECF and I'm asking again = Why are more Modders not making Box mods utilizing these Rechargeable Lithium ion/polymer batteries " ? You can get them from 3.7v-4.2v even get them at 4.35v now, they have safety protection features built in for over and under charge so they cut off ( double protection ). There very thin and you could even use two of them like the Darwin utilizes and charging would seem to be very easy with a simple USB cord/plug to a USB port in the mod. It just seems like it would be a nice option for any box mod out there to me. The run times on these are also super and more then some of the 18650 Batts out there. Here is a website just in case anyone would like to read up a bit on them =

Lithium-Ion (LiIon) & Lithium polymer (Lipoly) battery tutorial


Lithium ion/polymer batteries are extremely power dense. This makes them great for reducing size and weight of projects. Charging or using this or any batteries incorrectly can cause damage as we all know and if used they would still need to be matched with the correct chargers of course.


I would Like to hear some input from some of the well known modders/manufacturers/vendors out there and there thoughts on this so your thoughts are more than welcome please

PS; I see Matt from epipemods is utilizing one of these in his new boxes and it looks super and will last you all day and some probably !

 

[srolesen]

maybe it's because most mods inherit their form from flashlights and the flashlight batteires are well tested as opposed to the flat lipoly ones where there are alot of bad counterfeits ?

 

[mwa102464]

I dont really think we can really compare Mods to flashlights, pulsing Atty's & Carto's with different ohms on/off on/off is completely a different situation rather then turning a flashlight on and leaving it on. Especially with building a Box mod which these would be used in rather than a tube as well. These are very good Batteries especially some of the newer ones out there.

There are lots of counterfeits in flashlight batteries as well, that applies with every Battery, on the flip side there are some extremely good Lithium Polymer Batteries on the market right now too.

Anybody else have any thoughts on this ?

 

[srolesen]

I dont really think we can really compare Mods to flashlights, pulsing Atty's & Carto's with different ohms on/off on/off is completely a different situation rather then turning a flashlight on and leaving it on. Especially with building a Box mod which these would be used in rather than a tube as well.

i said they inherit their form, not their function.

There are lots of counterfeits in flashlight batteries as well, that applies with every Battery, on the flip side there are some extremely good Lithium Polymer Batteries on the market right now too.

yes but the flashlight people seem to be more diligent in testing batteries than vaping people, so much of the good battery tests tend to favour flashlight formfactor mods.

 

[denali_41]

good question !! those are the exact same batteries in portable home phone and cells phones,,they get used and abused way more then any mod battery will ever be exposed too !!!

 

[TomCatt]

Hey mwa. I'll take stab at an answer; but I'm sure Craig will be by sometime.
Lipo batteries are being used by some, Craig for one. I believe they do need a special charger. So just plugging them into a USB for charging isn't really an option. The ones that you find in cell phones don't deliver enough current for ecigs; but there are lipos that do work. They are a bit thicker than the cell phone batts.

I'm sure Craig will be able to supply more info.



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[pmos69]

Li-Ion batteries are what's used in most mods. What did you think was being used?
The only difference is the preference for "standard" form-factors. The rest is exactly the same.
Using a 'standard' form-factor makes it much easier to switch and replace batteries. That's all.
LiPo cells are used in some e-cigs.
Their chargers are the same as Li-Ion.

 

[CraigHB]

Yes, I've been using LiPos in my mods, I've probably built ten of them.

You have to know what you're doing with the flat cells. They typically are not protected and since they offer very low internal resistance, a short results in very high current flow and a very hot battery (they go poof). So, you either need to incorporate a protection PCB in the mod somewhere or engineer something reliable yourself. I use double redundant over-current protection with them (current sensing and a PTC fuse).

The charge density (by volume) is not spectacular with them. The 2C cells are only somewhat higher than an IMR round cell. Pretty much right between an ICR and IMR round cell. The 20C LiPos are slightly lower than an IMR round cell.

Depending on the size, you may not be able to use a 2C cell. For example, if you want to use a 1000mAh 2C cell, it's going to have a drain limit of 2A which is too low. You have to jump up to a 20C cell which has much lower charge density or use a 2C cell with more charge capacity. Either way, you have to go bigger. There's a dearth of LiPo cells between 2C and 20C. There are some 10C ones, but they are not as common and the price reflects that.

The big advantage with the LiPos is they have very low internal resistance which is ideal for a boost regulator, they need that. They also have a good shape for a box. You come out a little ahead in capacity compared to an IMR round cell since you're not wasting as much space.

I'm actually thinking about building my first round cell mod, but to get capacity above that of a single 18650 IMR round cell and to get battery impedance and drain limit where I need it, I have to run two ICR 18650s in parallel. It will be a big mod with huge capacity, but I already have smaller LiPo powered ones I can use when I want. There's also the Panny CGR18650CH which is a pretty amazing cell and ideal for a booster (I always build boosters).