Resistance-No Resistance wire welder

[LucentShadow]

There's a lot of great info here:

breaktru.com

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...no-resistance-wire-welder-51.html#post8438876

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_egiFI_57VwVUo0RHV6cE5ENms/edit

From what I've been gathering, it's all in balancing volts to capacitor microfards ... I got stronger bonds with the voltage at 27 volts / 2000 μF then with 32 volts / 1000 μF. I just received a new LM2577 so I might try the 35 volt / 1000 combo again just for giggles.

Also for people that have been having trouble with their particular setup making good welds, here is a calculator that can tell you how much energy is being stored on your capacitor(s):

Energy Stored on a Capacitor

I've tried many combinations of voltage (up to 27.5v) and capacitance (up to 6400uF), and have settled on 22.5v @ 5400uF, which is about 1.37 joules. It's my observation that different combinations that end up around 1.4 joules work about the same, so that's probably the best measurement to use when dialing the voltage and capacitance in.

Due to other variables, such as wire diameter and material, internal resistance of the capacitors, and increasing length of arcing with higher voltages, there is probably not a one-number-fits-all solution, but I'd shoot for 1.2 to 1.6 joules with some ability to vary it a bit more both ways.

ETA- I should add that I use mostly 30-32ga nichrome80 with 32ga nickel, and it usually takes me two attempts for a good end-to-end weld, keeping the clips very close to the end of the wires (about 1/8".) The first attempt seems to mushroom the end a bit, and the second attempt holds.

 

[dezyner]

all good info. thank you, appreciated. I have tried reading the thread from the start, and from the end backwards, almost always ends up going off on tangents kinda, makes sifting the info a little challenging, so I broke down and asked questions. thanks for the sum ups. very cool. have a great weekend, cheers.

 

[Scope666]

Also for people that have been having trouble with their particular setup making good welds, here is a calculator that can tell you how much energy is being stored on your capacitor(s):

Energy Stored on a Capacitor

I've tried many combinations of voltage (up to 27.5v) and capacitance (up to 6400uF), and have settled on 22.5v @ 5400uF, which is about 1.37 joules. It's my observation that different combinations that end up around 1.4 joules work about the same, so that's probably the best measurement to use when dialing the voltage and capacitance in.

Due to other variables, such as wire diameter and material, internal resistance of the capacitors, and increasing length of arcing with higher voltages, there is probably not a one-number-fits-all solution, but I'd shoot for 1.2 to 1.6 joules with some ability to vary it a bit more both ways.

ETA- I should add that I use mostly 30-32ga nichrome80 with 32ga nickel, and it usually takes me two attempts for a good end-to-end weld, keeping the clips very close to the end of the wires (about 1/8".) The first attempt seems to mushroom the end a bit, and the second attempt holds.

I stumbled on a similar calculator yesterday... still trying to find that perfect sweet spot for bond strength. I noticed in some of the YouTube videos the spark / sound isn't that violent on the successful welds. A lot of the devices out there like the TSAF seem to want to be at 35 volts for 30-32 gauge, but it felt like it was almost too much power when I tried it. When I went down to 26-27, the bonds seemed stronger. I'm going to have to experiment some more. I have some Nickel NR wire coming, all I have at the moment is the .999 silver which is just too fragile.

 

[LucentShadow]

I stumbled on a similar calculator yesterday... still trying to find that perfect sweet spot for bond strength. I noticed in some of the YouTube videos the spark / sound isn't that violent on the successful welds. A lot of the devices out there like the TSAF seem to want to be at 35 volts for 30-32 gauge, but it felt like it was almost too much power when I tried it. When I went down to 26-27, the bonds seemed stronger. I'm going to have to experiment some more. I have some Nickel NR wire coming, all I have at the moment is the .999 silver which is just too fragile.

Sounds reasonable. Myself and some others have noted that using higher voltage with lower capacitance can seem to make it more difficult due to the more violent arcing, which is largely a function of increased voltage. That's one of the reasons that I went with a lower voltage and more capacitance.

Just keep in mind that doubling the capacitance will double the stored energy, but doubling the voltage will quadruple the stored energy. So, if you halve the voltage, you need to quadruple the capacitance to get the same number of joules.

 

[Scope666]

Sounds reasonable. Myself and some others have noted that using higher voltage with lower capacitance can seem to make it more difficult due to the more violent arcing, which is largely a function of increased voltage. That's one of the reasons that I went with a lower voltage and more capacitance.

Just keep in mind that doubling the capacitance will double the stored energy, but doubling the voltage will quadruple the stored energy. So, if you halve the voltage, you need to quadruple the capacitance to get the same number of joules.

I have 1000 or 2000 μF options, does the mid 20's sound about right for voltage if I keep it at 2000 μF from your experience?

 

[LucentShadow]

I have 1000 or 2000 μF options, does the mid 20's sound about right for voltage if I keep it at 2000 μF from your experience?

Well, 2000μF at 25v = 0.625 joules, which seems a bit low, unless you're using very thin wires. If you're using 30-32ga, I'd try getting 4400μF at 25v, which is equivalent to what I use (22.5v @ 5400μF = 1.37 joules.) That would offer more flexibility, as you can go higher if need be, or charge them less if need be.

 

[Scope666]

Well, 2000μF at 25v = 0.625 joules, which seems a bit low, unless you're using very thin wires. If you're using 30-32ga, I'd try getting 4400μF at 25v, which is equivalent to what I use (22.5v @ 5400μF = 1.37 joules.) That would offer more flexibility, as you can go higher if need be, or charge them less if need be.

Most of my experimenting was with the silver wire, so maybe that's why I thought the voltage was too high. When the nickel arrives I'll try the "stock" 35 volts, but with 2000 μF. The original schematic calls for 1000, but I figure if I don't charge it as long, it should be somewhat equivalent.

 

[LucentShadow]

I'd guess that 2000μF at 35v would probably work with nickel NR wire. That's a bit over 1.2 joules, which seems to be in the ballpark.

I've never tried silver, but I'd guess that it would tend to 'solder' itself to the resistance wire, and probably poorly. My nickel-to-nichrome welds are pretty secure, and easily survive the tight wrapping of micro coils after the welds are made, so I'm not likely to try any other metals.

 

[Scope666]

I'd guess that 2000μF at 35v would probably work with nickel NR wire. That's a bit over 1.2 joules, which seems to be in the ballpark.

I've never tried silver, but I'd guess that it would tend to 'solder' itself to the resistance wire, and probably poorly. My nickel-to-nichrome welds are pretty secure, and easily survive the tight wrapping of micro coils after the welds are made, so I'm not likely to try any other metals.

Yes, the nickel is definitely the way to go. I did some test welds last night trying to simulate the nickel by using 2 pieces of 32, and the welds were much stronger than with the silver.

 

[Scope666]

my Zapper V2 goes on sale in about a weeks time if anyone doesn't feel like making one themselves.

Are you doing the LM2577 or the flash board thing? I've settled on 35 V with 2000 μF and I'm getting really strong welds now.

 

[dezyner]

my Zapper V2 goes on sale in about a weeks time if anyone doesn't feel like making one themselves.

let's see what's in it before I would consider buying it, at least parts it has so we know what we're potentially getting.

 

[halcon]

Noob question, why nobody uses standard lead-free soldering wire/flux? Is it harmful?

 

[Scope666]

Noob question, why nobody uses standard lead-free soldering wire/flux? Is it harmful?

I would imagine if your ejuice could come into contact with the solder point, it would be possible to get some flux in the juice, which probably wouldn't taste that good ... or be good for you. Just my 2 cents...

 

[LucentShadow]

Noob question, why nobody uses standard lead-free soldering wire/flux? Is it harmful?

Personally, I doubt the ability of a solder joint to hold during dry burns to clean the coil, and don't want any blob of solder there to make coil fit more of an issue.

With the end-to-end welds that I use, the bond is very strong, certainly able to withstand many dry burns, and comes very close to leaving the 3 wires looking as one wire.

I rarely make a new coil, as I just dry burn and replace the wicks when needed.

 

[redeyes24321]

I turned my LM2577 board all the way up and it went to like 75 volts. Is this normal? It sure does 'pop' when I make a weld though, and the welds are very strong. Just wondering how you guys are getting good welds at only 36 volts. I was also using 28 gauge kanthal with silver non-resistance.

 

[Scope666]

I turned my LM2577 board all the way up and it went to like 75 volts. Is this normal? It sure does 'pop' when I make a weld though, and the welds are very strong. Just wondering how you guys are getting good welds at only 36 volts. I was also using 28 gauge kanthal with silver non-resistance.

The amount of capacitance plays a HUGE role in the strength of the weld, also how long you hold the button down before you charge. I've been doing 35 volts, 2000 μF and I hold for about 4 seconds and the bonds are pretty strong.

 

[dsy5]

Have tried silver soldering the leads in the early days and it is just really difficult to get the solder to 'take' to Kanthal or Nichrome properly. And I do not want to try any of the various fluxes since who knows what might be in them.

 

[halcon]

Ok, thanks!

 

[turnforward]

I'd guess that 2000μF at 35v would probably work with nickel NR wire. That's a bit over 1.2 joules, which seems to be in the ballpark.

I've never tried silver, but I'd guess that it would tend to 'solder' itself to the resistance wire, and probably poorly. My nickel-to-nichrome welds are pretty secure, and easily survive the tight wrapping of micro coils after the welds are made, so I'm not likely to try any other metals.

I built my welder according to the orig. specs, and have been using it as many others here have: 35v with 1000uf. I have been getting good welds at 35v with 30 nic to 30 kanthal with just a couple of breaks when coiling. Using 32 gauge half of the welds break. I used the joule calculator from this link : Electronics 2000 | Capacitor Charge / Energy Calculator . It's telling me that I am getting just over half a joule and its telling me I need 45v just to get a little over a joule with my 1000 cap.

Has it been working for my 30 gauge, even though I am not close to 1 joule, because of a balancing act between voltage and energy?
To get better welds with the 32 gauge, should I go down or up a little in voltage (my LMBoard can go up to 37V)?

 

[Scope666]

I built my welder according to the orig. specs, and have been using it as many others here have: 35v with 1000uf. I have been getting good welds at 35v with 30 nic to 30 kanthal with just a couple of breaks when coiling. Using 32 gauge half of the welds break. I used the joule calculator from this link : Electronics 2000 | Capacitor Charge / Energy Calculator . It's telling me that I am getting just over half a joule and its telling me I need 45v just to get a little over a joule with my 1000 cap.

Has it been working for my 30 gauge, even though I am not close to 1 joule, because of a balancing act between voltage and energy?
To get better welds with the 32 gauge, should I go down or up a little in voltage (my LMBoard can go up to 37V)?

From my experimenting, I would try lowering the voltage to maybe 27, but holding the button down a bit longer, and see if it makes a stronger bond. I'm still struggling myself to get a higher percentage of welds to be REALLY strong. Many of them are good, but just cant' withstand the tension that happens when winding a coil.