Riva 510 charger: can I use it on other lipo's?

[Java_Az]

Really i dont think your going to need anything special to charge and vape at the same time. When you go to take a hit it will just draw the chargers mA to the atomizer. It might give the charge chip a bit of a false reading due to voltage drop but it should stabilize shortly after. Really the only problem i see is no matter if the charger is on or off while you are vaping if your protected battery went into protection mode. Then you plug it in to charge and vape right away your more then likey going to trip protection again unless it charges up for awhile. IF you really are hitting it hard it could take thebattery voltage down to a damaging voltage. Because the charger will pull the battery out of protection mode after each hit cause it is charging. This should be noticeable though because you should be getting poor hits due to protection kicking in. then the most the atomizer would be getting is the 500mA from the charger. So really thats what i would worry about the most the very first part of the charge where the battery voltage can be sunken to lower then ideal voltage( which can and will damage li ion cells ).

 

[CraigHB]

If the OP is planning to use a booster mod, then an atomizer cut-out or at least a battery indicator is going to be essential. However, I believe the OP is merely interested in an unregulated single batt mod with built-in charging. In that case, you normally wouldn't hit the protection because vapor production falls way off. I have one unregulated mod I use with an IMR batt and I'm usually changing out the batt around 3.5V where vapor production falls off quite a bit. Pretty hard to miss really. You'd have to over-discharge the batt on purpose or by accident if the button was stuck on.

I think if I was doing the same thing myself, I would incorporate an atomizer cut-out anyway, can be done easily with a voltage detector and MOSFET.

Regardless, I don't see any real necessity to cut-out the charger either, especially with the more basic controllers found on the ready made charging modules. I only do it with MCP73833 because it has additional safety features that can latch out charging otherwise.

 

[interestingfellow]

If the OP is planning to use a booster mod, then an atomizer cut-out or at least a battery indicator is going to be essential. However, I believe the OP is merely interested in an unregulated single batt mod with built-in charging.

Correct. Well maybe a bit of extra flare, but yes, 3.7v LR, single cell

In that case, you normally wouldn't hit the protection because vapor production falls way off.

Hmmm; although I can tell most of the time (the flavor changes and the vapor is cooler), I don't know that this is true (for me). Does the Riva protection circuit cut out earlier than most lipo's with protection?

You'd have to over-discharge the batt on purpose or by accident if the button was stuck on. I think if I was doing the same thing myself, I would incorporate an atomizer cut-out anyway, can be done easily with a voltage detector and MOSFET.

You mean an "off" button? If not, then I don't understand what an "atomizer cut-out" is; may you elaborate?

Thanks again!

 

[CraigHB]

I'm not sure of the voltage the Riva units shut down, but it may be as high as 3.5V so that wouldn't necessarily be a good gauge.

I can say from using an unregulated mod with an unprotected IMR batt, I've never discharged one below 3.2V. Vapor production gets really flat at that voltage. The point of no return for most Li-Ions is ~2.5V. For protected cells, the over-discharge protection engages at 2.7V I believe. The LiPo flat cells I use can be discharged down to 2.2V without damage, though I use a detection circuit that shuts down the device at 3.5V. The discharge curve falls off quickly below 3.5V so there's no reason to take them down much lower than that.

You can insert a MOSFET driven by a voltage detector after the charging circuit and before the atomizer circuit to implement a cut-out. When battery voltage drops below a certain level, the voltage detector will switch off the MOSFET and disable power to the atomizer. Alternately, you could drive an LED with a voltage detector for a simple battery low indicator. However, I don't think it's a necessity in your case. You'll be able to tell the battery is discharged without relying on a cut-out or battery indicator. For a regulated mod, a cut-out or at least a battery indicator is essential.

 

[interestingfellow]

I GOT ALL MY CRAP IN THE MAIL: YAY!
More on that in a minute. For now, I have a few new questions:

Transistors: Gate (or collector) Drain and Source. When the gate gets saturated, the source connects to the drain, and completes the circuit, yes?
Do mosfets suck up any voltage when the gate is off?
I was looking at doing a touch switch like this (I forget which thread it's from, i've looked at soo many).
If the aforementioned premise about transistors is true, then the touch switch/mosfet shouldn't suck up any power when not engaged?
I realize this answer may or not be apparent; will the charger (the ebay link posted above, and below) drain the system if I leave it hooked to the battery, but not plugged into usb power? I'm probably going to install a 3 pole 2 position switch anyway: off, vape, vape/charge, but it's still nice to know.

PS: My stockpile of crap for my mod:
IRL3103PBF soic 8pin mosfets, IRF8736TRPBF to-220 mosfets,3mm blacklight led's,micro usb ports, "3000mah" ( ) lipo's (i went cheap for the moment, i'll get better one's later), usb lipo chargers, and a nice 6' piece of 3/4id 7/8od acrylic pipe from usplastics (dirt cheap, but thin wall)..... off we go!

 

[CraigHB]

You are correct in your assumption about how a FET works, when the voltage differential between the gate and source pins (Vgs) is high enough in the correct direction, it saturates the silicon junctions so current can flow from source to drain (P-channel) or drain to source (N-channel) with very little resistance.

A good MOSFET leaks very little when Vgs is zero, usually in the nano-amps.

The charger will also leak very little when connected to the battery without any charging power.

Have fun building your mod!

 

[interestingfellow]

Craig, thx!
I was soo inspired by the coolness of gummybear's "another 18650" mod, that I had to do one! I don't have ready access to a machine shop right now, and the end caps have been killing me! I think I have it licked though:it'll be tough looking, functional, and strong (enough).
I'm also planning on recessing the usb port, like a toughbook (I'm tired of fixing the power port on my family's laptops!) and, if I can swing it, an voltmeter w/some blacklights. and if the meter works out, then some fluorescent color(s).... somewhere. i dunno.

 

[Java_Az]

You have to be careful though the charger you linked will have good reverse protection when not charging. But if you used a Ego or Riva charger they have horrible reverse protection when hooked up all the time. Somewhere around 10mA drain

 

[interestingfellow]

oh shnikies! Often, I just unplug it and let it sit there (don't really care as much now, as my riva batteries are prolly at %50).

 

[Java_Az]

oh shnikies! Often, I just unplug it and let it sit there (don't really care as much now, as my riva batteries are prolly at %50).

It is a bit different when hooked to a riva or Ego. It wont drain your batteries because they work off a mosfet. Basicly if the charger is not powered up it wont open the mosfet to let juice threw or out. So there is protection for egos and rivas but it is built into the PV not the charger. So just hooking the charger up to 14500 it would not have what a riva or ego has to prevent the drain. Not sure how to explain this but i will try. say you built a PV with a just the ego battery and took that to a switch then to a 510 connector. It would work and vape fine , hit the switch it would fire the atty. But if you hooked a ego charger to it it would not charge unless you pressed the switch the whole time. So it is the circuit in a ego/rive with a mosfet that senses the charger voltage and lets the charge threw with out having to hit the switch. Anyways your ego and or riva wont drain with the charger hooked up and not powered on.

 

[interestingfellow]

ahh, 10/4.

 

[interestingfellow]

irl3103 resistive touch switch tested in the breadboard
irf3786 soldered up and working
analogue led voltmeter breadboarded and working
endcaps (didn't work how I wanted, chose alternate)
charger board wired up
cramming it all into the tube.....

I'm looking at this perf board, trying to figure out how to get the voltmeter components installed neatly, and as small as possible. right now, it's winning...

 

[interestingfellow]

Hey, Craig (or anyone who knows);
on that usb charger, think it would be ok to throw an led and a 1k res (or so) in parallel with the output charging lines? the onboard LED blinks red when you plug it in, but cuts off (I'm assuming till it's fully charged, and then it'll cut on?).

I got all the parts ready, I just gotta throw it together tonight! Yay!

THanks!

 

[MadmanMacguyver]

Really that shouldn't be happening. Riva ,ego's and hello 016 all use the same 420ma charger. I use a riva charger on my ego all the time and it goes green. If you take the charger apart you will see they are made by the same company. Belkin is printed on the circuit boards. Sometimes when electronic stuff doesn't work right , You can give it a good smack ( Fonzie Tap) it will start acting right.

Hey thats my trick...and the Fonz touch is trademarked so be careful

Also at least one of the sparkfun chargers can be modified to give more than 500ma charge rate but you would need to power it with something other than USB...like a 12v 1A wall wort or such...I thought I would mention that if the OP was going for an internal charging scheme...the sparkfun charger is actually a nice charger BTW...I think i read one is CC/CV...

 

[CraigHB]

on that usb charger, think it would be ok to throw an led and a 1k res (or so) in parallel with the output charging lines? the onboard LED blinks red when you plug it in, but cuts off (I'm assuming till it's fully charged, and then it'll cut on?).

That wouldn't work. With an LED on there, you'd be drawing current full time the controller does not expect to see. Plus, you'd have to add a diode to keep the light from staying on all the time powered by the battery. That would really mess up charging.

Indication depends on the controller chip and how it's wired up. The full featured controller I use has 3 LED pins, one for power okay, one for charge in progress, and one for charge complete. For that one, I'm well covered on indication. For the basic ones that use only one light (MCP73831 controller), I believe it simply illuminates when charging and extinguishes when complete. You should be able to get by with the single light the charger provides. If you want, you might be able to remove the SMD light and wire in a remote light in its place. Or, you could use an LED light conductor to transmit light to the case. 1/16" acrylic rod will do the job nicely.

 

[interestingfellow]

yep.
I got the dern thing wired up and assembled....uh....the vision was there; application...not soo much.
BTW, I have discovered you are correct; the light just comes on while charging.

the loose battery shows 3.85v on a DMM (and 3.5v+ on my built in voltmeter when installed!!!!), but won't fire my 2ohm boge. I dunno. It's charging right now, I'll try it again in the morning.
I can't figure it out: on the breadboard, I could lick one contact and pinch the other contact between my fingers, and it would fire. once installed, mouth/atty and finger/contact won't work? I don't gitit...
Also, my atty connector might be shorting? I ohmed it out, and then backfilled it with hot glue to hold everything. next time, im soldering the atty connector while in place.



Gen II will be much better. Steep learning curve and all. anyway, here are some pics, and vids (if I can get'm uploaded)
here are some of the guts, but I reworked some of it:

[/IMG]

and the unit while charging. I "handed" (as opposed to "machined") out a spot in the right end cap, installed the charger board/micro usb, shrink tube, and backfilled the cap with hot glue to hold everything. you can see the usb plugged in over there.
I still have to put in the touch sensors. right now the bare wire is just poking out from the either side of the cap (hence, my pinching one side).

[/IMG]
vids later.

 

[interestingfellow]

.
Voltage Divider Voltmeter in action

And my superwhiz touch switch with IRL3103 in a breadboard, WITH an LM317T regulator. whoopwhoop

And of course, all of this was possible mainly in part by the fine folks here, and by ripping off what has been done in differently by many before me.
SO, thank you everyone!

 

[interestingfellow]

upon further research, I've found that (some of) the BRC18650's won't put out enough current.

.... .... mother ...... ....

THink it's the cell that limits this, or the built in protection?
UHHHHHHHH! I emailed the seller. waiting on the reply to get the output specs (which I should have checked before I bought them).

 

[Java_Az]

upon further research, I've found that (some of) the BRC18650's won't put out enough current.

.... .... mother ...... ....

THink it's the cell that limits this, or the built in protection?
UHHHHHHHH! I emailed the seller. waiting on the reply to get the output specs (which I should have checked before I bought them).

They usually follow the capacity or MAh rating . 1.5 * C for china made batteries and Korean and Japan made are usually 2 * C so a china made 2600 mah battery would be 1.5 x 2600mA = 3.75 max discharge amps. A Korean or Japan model would be 2 X 2600 = 5.2 amps. Either way a 18650 should be more then enough to vape off of. Although i heard they are now counter fitting Some of the china made batteries with cells that did not pass quality control. Might be your problem, there is a thread around here in the modders forum about it somewhere.

 

[interestingfellow]

i charged one of them to full last night.
i'm gonna go throw a couple clips and leads on my carto and short it to the battery, just to see if it'll do it.

and then take a nap. ttys.