Rule changes

[Ciego]

Frankly, the "we don't want people to get something they can't use" reason is plain and simple bull droppings.

Here's the reason, the honest-to-Pete reason in my opinion:

If there is a problem with a tainted juice, a deliberate poisoning, or other crime committed through a PIF, having a clear trail of who Piffed what to whom will be necessary to solve the crime and to protect ECF. Also, the moderators are trying to keep things as transparent as possible vis-a-vis FDA and other Federal agency surveillance.

Let's get real here. If I get a PIF I don't like/can't use, like everyone else I would pass it along to someone who "might" like it. Therefore, the reason given by the moderators seems to me to be smoke and mirrors. I also acknowledge that our lifestyle is constantly under Federal scrutiny. These lackeys of big pharma and big tobacco are trying to find a ..... in our armor, a place to drive a wedge and keep nicotine addicts tethered to tobacco and/or pharmaceutical products.

Look, I don't mind the rules, and it was I who was first rebuked for offering PIFs without description. I'll live with that. All of you will miss out, of course. I am probably too generous, I was ready to PIF quarts of e-liquid...but I cannot do so any longer. Again, I am comfortable with the rules and will abide by them, and if I do PIF, it will be with non-nicotine products such as padded mailers and batteries. Fortunately, I don't need my eyes to tell if I'm sending an auto or a manual KR808D-1. If I have to describe the color though.... LOL

Remember, the above is my opinion and only a guess as to the real motives of the ECF/PIF moderators. I think their motives go far beyond protecting us from receiving a bottle of Vomit Vapor Dot Com's Rancid Tuna Flavor e-juice.

 

[Elendil]

Sorry, you are way off base. We are a venue. We have no responsibility for what one member sends to another to begin with. The reasons for the policy have already been stated. If you do not believe that, that is your issue, but the rules are the rules and will be enforced.

 

[keyzygirl]

The rules didnt change,Nothing changed.Dont create a big drama about it.Nothing different happened.Im sorry but I dont see the problem.Post what your giving is not a huge request.We donate hours and hours of our time so that PIF can exist and you cant take 5 minutes to descibe a few bottles of liquid?Really??

 

[leannebug]

((hugszane)) sorry to hear you are having a bad day. My nice little paragraph just got erased.. so I have to type it all again!

E.. we truly do understand where you are coming from... and we appreciate all that yall do to help us here, and keep us from dealing with the ugly side. But you have to know.. it gets frustrating for us too. Lois and Zane are right too. Rules like this just suck the fun right out of giving. When it gets structured and organized and plugged into little rows.. when we find out that there are complaints about a gift we have given.

How does one complain about a gift given to them out of the goodness of someone else's heart? Why would you do that? This is something that is picked out, carefully wrapped, and mailed just for you... why would you complain about that? I really really don't understand this line of thinking.

PIFing is about giving, it's about sharing, and caring for each other, and giving thanks, and being thankful. When we give something, we give out of the goodness of our hearts.... honestly, how do you complain about something like that? How do you not be thankful for whatever you got... no matter what it is.? If it's something you cant use, then just Pay It Forward! Is that not what this whole sub-forum is about?? Paying things forward?

I'm guessing the majority of these complaints have come from either the PIF thread, or the Treasure thread.. In my opinion, these have become two threads that are based more around giving and fun, than any emergency needs. We have 2 other threads that come much closer to fulfilling the needs of the members: the Needs thread, and the Wants thread. There are many members that troll these threads. We are careful to monitor and take care of most of the needs and wants of the PIF community.

Sometimes it is nice to have a "fun" place to give as well. Everything else is becoming SO structured, even the Needs thread cannot be posted on, it must be monitored... so where has the fun gone? Why must it all be rules and complaints? What happened to giving just because? Or being thankful for anything you received?

 

[BiancaMontgomery]

I was with PIF as a vaping newbie when it was ONE THREAD. Look at it now. Look at how many members we have. Order is a must. Enforcing the rules is a must. Protecting the generous and huge hearted people of PIF is a must. All these things are in place to help PIF survive...and thrive.

 

[DLite]

The rules didnt change,Nothing changed.Dont create a big drama about it.Nothing different happened.Im sorry but I dont see the problem.Post what your giving is not a huge request.We donate hours and hours of our time so that PIF can exist and you cant take 5 minutes to descibe a few bottles of liquid?Really??

This wasnt started to create drama, This was started to see if the time allotted could be changed for a little more time. you all do a great deal for PIF but if your going to reply with a statement that shows everyone that this thread has rubbed you the wrong way please delete it, this was not intended on causing problems but once things like this above start then problems will arise and no one wants that.

 

[keyzygirl]

Im sorry,I DO want everything to be fun and fair and happy.

 

[The Big Chief]

I personally dont mind the time allotment. When the board is on fire, that 30 minutes can kill it. I like seeing it moving in under 5 minutes myself, but granted Ive pilferred through my stash for 30 minutes and gave up and just threw up a "chiefy surprise"...BUT, those surprises are contoured to the taker. Vets generally have a LOT of stuff, so allowing a choice of liquid mg, or atty vs. carto is no stretch. I like my surprise packs personally. But its also no issue to throw out something small, then follow up and send some extra goodies. Just cause it wasnt broadcasted, who cares. Its not about the fame of "I sent more stuff, woot woot"...its about the thought of that person on the other side having that big ol' grin compliments of you, in a world that seldom gives ya a leg up, much less an "atta boy". I guess I play devils advocate for all sides.

 

[tiburonfirst]

This wasnt started to create drama, This was started to see if the time allotted could be changed for a little more time. you all do a great deal for PIF but if your going to reply with a statement that shows everyone that this thread has rubbed you the wrong way please delete it, this was not intended on causing problems but once things like this above start then problems will arise and no one wants that.

dlite, i've seen plenty of pifs take longer than 30 minutes without complaints, lol. naturally, the best thing to do is look through your stash beforehand and pull out possible pifs.
you can also update your post with something like 'bear with me, still looking.'
that should keep everybody happy

 

[The Big Chief]

I think were ok as long as noone spends 45 minutes to come back with a used carto and a crusty condom to help fill it
On a side note, we've watched the board stall for days on end recently, and not becuase of the offer. It is what it is.

 

[cobaltblue]

DLite, maybe this will help. I normally PIF fifteen to twenty bottles at a time so I type what I'm giving in a word document... then sometime in the future if I see something I'd like to try in PIF, just hit copy/paste and it's good to go.

The rules make perfect sense to me. Sheesh though, I didn't even realize people were complaining to the mods about PIFs. They should get some sort of PIF'n Saint award.

 

[TJVapes]

Sheesh though, I didn't even realize people were complaining to the mods about PIFs. They should get some sort of PIF'n Saint award.

That's only my suggestion based on assumption. Don't know.

 

[Tuck]

I have all my PIF stuff in a separate box. The biggest problem I have is many of the bottles I got in a PIF to try.
They have maker labels and the nic amount. But they do not list vg/pg amounts on them. And I am not going to guess what the vg/pg amounts are.Or say they are all one or the other. I use ??/?? because I honestly have no clue.

 

[Ciego]

Well, maybe I'm a bit too much a "conspiracy nut," or maybe it's because I've spent too much time recently with lawyers. Okay, I accept that there's no legal rationale for enforcing the rules.

I accept the rules, and as I said (if anyone had bothered to read before rebuking), that I will of course happily comply with said rules. I can see where they are useful. In my case, compliance will be through avoidance; no liquids or cartomizers will be offered in the future.

Until someone institutes a rule that says I need recent accurate meter readings on any batteries I PIF, just so some ingrate won't complain about getting a battery at its half-life... When that happens, I'm out of here. <grin>

Having been a sysop during the BBS days, and a moderator of three different Internet fora, I understand the discomfort moderators feel when something like this arises.

Look everybody, if I started this fecal meteorological event I apologize. I am sorry that I cannot read bottle labels, I truly am. I am sorry that nearly no one who lives within 50 miles of me is into vaping and could come over to help me read bottle labels.
But it is what it is.

 

[lynleestar]

I suppose I have been guilty of this myself a time of 2. I know once I was away from my stash so I offered '6 5ml samples of different juices' I made sure to get the flavor, nic, pg/vg preferences when the offer was accepted. IMO 'surprise packs' or 'custom selected to your liking' offers seem to go quicker. With that being said, I do understand the need for structure, there are a lot of us here and the mods do work hard.

I believe it should be allowed to offer up an A or B type of offer, one as specific as possible, the other offer unrestricted. I certainly think anyone with known allergies/aversions would not accept something that isn't disclosed. I offered in the treasure chest once 3 juice lots, high med and low nic, and once they were taken, I got the takers likes/dislikes to help customize.

Really, I can understand both points of view. As for the OP, 30 minutes seems like a fair amount of time to me. Then again, I don't have 4 kids!

 

[keyzygirl]

Sorry Libra I was just trying to help people to understand why we have certain rules.Thanks.

 

[librarising]

Thanks Keyz and you're welcome. I know how hard this is for you because you love PIF and PIFers so much.

 

[DLite]

Yes I have a small cheerleading squad on my hands and I dont always have time to finish offering a PIF due to the kids wanting something or getting into something, I just wanted to make sure that since a surprise pack is out of question without offering a solid offer along with it I wouldnt get into trouble or pasted up on an offer if the matter arises. Sorry for this thread turning into the great debate. It was never intended to be.

 

[BiancaMontgomery]

D, would you like it closed?

 

[DLite]

Yes please close this thread it has already turned into the great debate but was never intended to be. Thanks B