Secondhand smoke is harmless

[Tangaroav]

What I get from many here is that people should put up with second hand smoke and vapor because THEY think it is harmless and because there are thousands of other pollutants around.

I would not let anyone smoke in my house or my car, and to the ones who would have the audacity to ask I would show my irritation to be asked such a stupid question.

I understand very well parents that will not accept a smoker or vaper around their child.

 

[rico942]

My father was a gentle giant, not given to quick negative reactions, but more to thoughtful response ...

Still, if I had ever come home from school suggesting that his pipe smoking was somehow harmful to his children, I'm quite certain I would have received a stern lecture on the consequences of attempting to impose my will on a stronger adversary ...

Instead, I breathed in the cherry aroma, chewed on lead paint, and followed the insecticide-spraying truck on my bicycle with the other kids ...

I'm still here ...

 

[Jman8]

I understand very well parents that will not accept a smoker or vaper around their child.

I wish to challenge you on the smoker one, but the vaper one just humors me. If you care to explain rationale for either one, I might have a good laugh. Pretty please!

 

[Lilvapie]

When I smoked I never smoked indoors, it is way more enjoyable to smoke outdoors. Second hand smoke smells bad, it's annoying, but that's about it. As far as it being harmful, well, I'm still awaiting evidence along with many US states.

 

[sub4me]

What a weird thread to start here and the now ex smokers who vape and preach are just silly also.

 

[Bernard Marx]

I smoked. I vaped.

My wife likes the vaping better. (I think)

She always felt comfortable in holding the smoking against me.

She may resent me for vaping.

Haiku (not really)

So

 

[sub4me]

Vaping is the most important thing.

 

[Bernard Marx]

I am vape.

 

[Kenneth38]

Secondhand smoke is harmless?? Are you kidding me??

 

[WattWick]

Secondhand smoke is harmless?? Are you kidding me??

It appears we have defined 'harmless' as one non-smoker walking through a smoke filled room without instantly developing terminal lung cancer.

 

[Tangaroav]

I wish to challenge you on the smoker one, but the vaper one just humors me. If you care to explain rationale for either one, I might have a good laugh. Pretty please!

You ask for answers that indicate a lack of awareness. I guess you don't believe in evolution also. The evidence of the risks of second hand smoke has been demonstrated plenty. Educate yourself on the matter, it is easy with the web. You Will learn something and maybe laugh a bit less.

As for vapors that are full of diketones, well just read the last study of Dr. F. ( I guess there too you are clueless... ).

Yes, caring parents protect their kids from uneducated ruffians who think it is ok for their kids to breathe in substances that are known to be dangerous.

 

[firerat]

I don't see anything wrong with trying to keep your kids away from second hand smoke or second hand vape.

We know secondhand smoke is at very least not healthy. Is it going to melt their lungs upon inhalation, no. But still.

Vape we just don't know yet. That's the facts. Is it less harmful than cigarettes, it looks that way.

All that being said, there is a way to avoid second hand smoke / vape and not be a jerk about it.

 

[skoony]

You ask for answers that indicate a lack of awareness. I guess you don't believe in evolution also. The evidence of the risks of second hand smoke has been demonstrated plenty. Educate yourself on the matter, it is easy with the web. You Will learn something and maybe laugh a bit less.

As for vapors that are full of diketones, well just read the last study of Dr. F. ( I guess there too you are clueless... ).

Yes, caring parents protect their kids from uneducated ruffians who think it is ok for their kids to breathe in substances that are known to be dangerous.

known to be dangerous is not a realistic threshold.
the correct threshold is known to be dangerous at certain levels and above.
casual contact with second hand smoke will not harm a healthy individual.
people with pre existing conditions such as allergies,diabetes,etc..,can
and do have problems with SHS aggravating their conditions. that's why
i don't have a problem with indoor bans in most public places.
i believe bars and restaurants should choose their own policies.
other places such as theaters or arena's where one buys a ticket to attend
bans are most appropriate.
the newest science indicates non smokers living with heavy smokers for
30 years or more may have a slightly elevated risk of contracting a smoking
related illness as compared to totally non risk groups. the key word is may
not will.
being that vaping is estimated to be 98 % + or - 1 % safer than smoking
there is no scientifically provable way exhaled vapor can be harmful to
non vapors. there would be no way to detect how any traces of even the bad stuff in exhaled
vapor is distinguishable from the same substances found naturally in the environment.

regards
Mike

 

[Tangaroav]

known to be dangerous is not a realistic threshold.
the correct threshold is known to be dangerous at certain levels and above.
casual contact with second hand smoke will not harm a healthy individual.
people with pre existing conditions such as allergies,diabetes,etc..,can
and do have problems with SHS aggravating their conditions. that's why
i don't have a problem with indoor bans in most public places.
i believe bars and restaurants should choose their own policies.
other places such as theaters or arena's where one buys a ticket to attend
bans are most appropriate.
the newest science indicates non smokers living with heavy smokers for
30 years or more may have a slightly elevated risk of contracting a smoking
related illness as compared to totally non risk groups. the key word is may
not will.
being that vaping is estimated to be 98 % + or - 1 % safer than smoking
there is no scientifically provable way exhaled vapor can be harmful to
non vapors. there would be no way to detect how any traces of even the bad stuff in exhaled
vapor is distinguishable from the same substances found naturally in the environment.

regards
Mike

Your vapor could contain many times more diketones than conventional cigarettes, ( as per Doc. Faralinos' study where 70% of liquids ontained diketones and 40% were above the regulated threshold). So there goes your 98% safer than cigarettes.... We can't fight Antz with arguments that are easy to be proven false.

No intelligent mother would put her baby in a room where smoking/vaping is going on. The same goes for health conscious people. We stand no chance of trying to convince them that although WE have the right to accept the risks and we 'think' it is not dangerous for them to breathe the same vapor, so they should allow us to do as we please as it is our right.

I suggest this ongoing survey in ecf: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/polls/619828-diketone-debate-position-do-you-take.html

Over 85% of vapers voted to remove diketones or have a warning on e-liquids that contain it. Until we, the vapers, stop buying from vendors that will not remove this poison from their liquids, we are fighting a loosing battle, facts outweigh opinions and the Antz are having a field day.

 

[Davey59]

I read many many years ago a report by the WHO that claimed that second hand cigarette smoke was actually a benefit to an otherwise healthy non smokers immune system. There are many things we are exposed to daily that are far worse. This like many other findings that would/could harm an agenda being pushed was squelched. Not unlike the report by a Harvard economics professor claiming that early death by smokers saves the government a small fortune in unpaid benefits, not the other way around.

I think to most it should be obvious that the government is NOT your friend and NOT looking after your best interests and mob rule look up the Latin is a very very bad thing. You don't need to be a physicist to understand these concepts, you do however need a bare minim of intelligence which I do admit seems in short supply.

Unnecessarily restrictions and fines through unfair taxations is just another way to divide. Common courtesy is the mainstay of a polite and respectful society.

 

[Tangaroav]

.......

I think to most it should be obvious that the government is NOT your friend and NOT looking after your best interests and mob rule look up the Latin is a very very bad thing. You don't need to be a physicist to understand these concepts, you do however need a bare minim of intelligence which I do admit seems in short supply.

We have a problem; A democratic government is not our friend and does not have our best interest in mind. Mob rule is very bad. What would you recommend: A kingdoom ? A theocracy ? An oligarchy ?

 

[skoony]

Your vapor could contain many times more diketones than conventional cigarettes, ( as per Doc. Faralinos' study where 70% of liquids ontained diketones and 40% were above the regulated threshold). So there goes your 98% safer than cigarettes.... We can't fight Antz with arguments that are easy to be proven false.

No intelligent mother would put her baby in a room where smoking/vaping is going on. The same goes for health conscious people. We stand no chance of trying to convince them that although WE have the right to accept the risks and we 'think' it is not dangerous for them to breathe the same vapor, so they should allow us to do as we please as it is our right.

I suggest this ongoing survey in ecf: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/polls/619828-diketone-debate-position-do-you-take.html

Over 85% of vapers voted to remove diketones or have a warning on e-liquids that contain it. Until we, the vapers, stop buying from vendors that will not remove this poison from their liquids, we are fighting a loosing battle, facts outweigh opinions and the Antz are having a field day.

his study tells me that the diketones can be accurately tested for
and did not say that these levels can't be reduced to regulatory thresholds.
so i am sticking with my 98% as it also includes the whole of the bad ingredients
including diketones. the concern with diketones is not that their harmful its
how much diketones does it take to be harmful and how much if any would be in
exhaled vapor has to be considered.
the 98 % figure is not my theory,its the number most often cited in these forums
and elsewhere concerning the safety of e-cigs compared to smoking.
if what i am doing can't harm you,you don't have any right to inhibit my behavior,
children or no. you are playing more into the ANTZ by playing the chillin' card
than my argument does.

regards
mike

 

[firerat]

We have a problem; A democratic government is not our friend and does not have our best interest in mind. Mob rule is very bad. What would you recommend: A kingdoom ? A theocracy ? An oligarchy ?

How about anarchy. No one's ever tried that.

 

[Davey59]

We have a problem; A democratic government is not our friend and does not have our best interest in mind. Mob rule is very bad. What would you recommend: A kingdoom ? A theocracy ? An oligarchy ?

Heh, THAT is where you have the problem? I think you simply do not understand, or don't want to. We are currently not a country of mob rule so the premise of your question is moot.

 

[bluecat]

i don't need to see a scientific study to have a general idea that its far from harmless.

if its written on the net, its got to be true, right?

45000 deaths annually in canada alone. if its that deadly to breath in first hand, i cannot see how its virtually harmless after its exhailed.

if you need a scientist to tell you that, then best of luck to you.

In that case any one of us that smoked an evil cigarette should be in the grave already. Seeing it is that deadly to breathe in.

Considering the human body was designed to live a shorter life than we actually do.... many of this is being exasperated. It may help other issues to become more prevalent, but it won't kill you directly.