Senate rejects challenge to FDA tobacco bill

[nash076]

Rabble rabble rabble! I'm going to be angry and insult people who think differently from me!

Rabble rabble! I'm going to make jokes about murder! Murder is funny when it isn't me!

Rabble rabble! I'm angry about the process so I'm going to take it out on others!

Please, people. It sucks. It sucks a <i>lot</i>. But you're getting way off the point. We're all smokers/ex-smokers/vapers. We want to continue using a good product. There are constructive ways to attempt that, there are ways to work toward that, and then there's being a ****.

Don't be a ****, 'kay?

Nash

 

[Surf Monkey]

Hear hear.

 

[forcedfuel50]

I guess we'll just have to hope the bill doesn't get signed into law, if so, we can only hope it has no teeth, much like the UIGEA bill had no real effect on online gambling. Hmm...

 

[WerkIt]

Mine is looking good too, may plant some more the way things are looking.

It's too late for me to plant more for harvest, but I could definitely plant more for seed and I need to.

 

[WerkIt]

I guess we'll just have to hope the bill doesn't get signed into law,

Did you not hear of the stalling tactic being used?

Photo Fight: Lieberman and Graham Threaten Senate Shutdown


Senators Lieberman and Graham have just concluded a press conference held in response to a still unconfirmed move by the Democratic leadership in the House to strip from the supplemental appropriations bill an amendment that would bar the release of detainee photos. That amendment, the Detainee Photographic Records Protection Act, had been attached to the supplemental by a unanimous voice vote in the Senate and with the explicit support of the White House. However, as THE WEEKLY STANDARD reported last Friday, the Democratic leadership has been unable to secure the votes necessary to pass the supplemental and is moving to strip out the Graham-Lieberman amendment under pressure from House liberals.


A senior Democratic aide tells THE WEEKLY STANDARD that "the House is putting the demands of the ACLU before the interests of the troops." This aide also said that Liberman and Graham "are going to attach [the amendment] to every piece of legislation that comes down the pike." And indeed as Lieberman said at the press conference this morning, "we already actually added our original legislation as an amendment to the FDA regulation of tobacco bill that's on the floor right now." source

 

[Bones]

Don't worry guys - At the rate Congress actually moves - We'll all be dead before they pass anything - LMAO

 

[nash076]

Actually, will the stalling tactic over the torture photos hold up the tobacco bill as well?

How much longer are they in session?

Could they run out the clock?

 

[TheKingOfKool]

The only words of the whole article that I liked were, "The ailing senator Ted Kennedy."
The day he dies and spends the rest of eternity in hell, will be a happy one for me.

Did they find a safe place to bury his liver?

 

[TheKingOfKool]

Did they find a safe place to bury his liver?

nevermind i just found out they are planing on having him cremated. But now i'm worried about how long the fire will take to put out.

 

[lordmage]

people please stay OT and keep it civil

 

[Lazarus]

That's not correct. This bill (HR 1256) is Henry Waxman's. The Kennedy/Dodd bill is a general health care package and it hasn't reached the Senate floor yet and won't have an SR designation until it does.

Kennedy was a pioneer of this bill:

Kennedy tobacco bill about to pass - 2008 Presidential Campaign Blog - Political Intelligence - Boston.com

 

[Surf Monkey]

Kennedy was a pioneer of this bill:

Kennedy tobacco bill about to pass - 2008 Presidential Campaign Blog - Political Intelligence - Boston.com

I know, but his name isn't on it. Waxman's is. When it comes time to pass a bill in Kennedy's name, it's going to be the general health care initiative, not this tobacco regulation bill. Kennedy's name is on the health care bill and his situation is directly relevant to it. The Democratic caucus won't want to spend that political capitol on the FDA bill when it's needed to get universal health care passed.

 

[Smokin'Sandy]

Did you not hear of the stalling tactic being used?

Photo Fight: Lieberman and Graham Threaten Senate Shutdown


Senators Lieberman and Graham have just concluded a press conference held in response to a still unconfirmed move by the Democratic leadership in the House to strip from the supplemental appropriations bill an amendment that would bar the release of detainee photos. That amendment, the Detainee Photographic Records Protection Act, had been attached to the supplemental by a unanimous voice vote in the Senate and with the explicit support of the White House. However, as THE WEEKLY STANDARD reported last Friday, the Democratic leadership has been unable to secure the votes necessary to pass the supplemental and is moving to strip out the Graham-Lieberman amendment under pressure from House liberals.


A senior Democratic aide tells THE WEEKLY STANDARD that "the House is putting the demands of the ACLU before the interests of the troops." This aide also said that Liberman and Graham "are going to attach [the amendment] to every piece of legislation that comes down the pike." And indeed as Lieberman said at the press conference this morning, "we already actually added our original legislation as an amendment to the FDA regulation of tobacco bill that's on the floor right now." source

Wow...that is something I haven't heard about yet, well, now I have, but you know what I meant.

I've read that twice and I'm still not sure if that is good or bad??

 

[juliemeyer]

I just read the entire, excruciatingly long document which is the new tobacco bill. It is stated in that document that the FDA may not ban any tobacco product including smokeless tobacco. Would ecigs be a part of this?

 

[Two-A-T]

Furthermore, the assertion that "the only people that can have them is the Congress and the President" is absurd on the face of it.

I am new here so I have been holding my tongue in the interest of not giving a bad first impression. But, I have to take issue with your statement above!

You obviously DO NOT know much about our "fine" government. I have been around it in various levels MOST of my life (since I was 13 and I am 40 now) with family members who work at high levels and I know for a FACT that there are Mayors, Governors, military generals, ambassadors, Senators, Congressmen, PRESIDENTS, etc that have been KNOWN to have access to, AND USE, items that have been restricted or banned for US, the general public! As a prime example that is perfect here, I myself have seen high ranking officials smoking BANNED Cuban cigars!

If the FDA bans ecigs, the powers that be WILL still have access to them and to think otherwise is just "absurd on the face of it"!

 

[BigJimW]

I just read the entire, excruciatingly long document which is the new tobacco bill. It is stated in that document that the FDA may not ban any tobacco product including smokeless tobacco. Would ecigs be a part of this?

Of course it will. Basically the FDA sees the e-cig as a "nicotine delivery system" even though you can get carts with no nicotine. Only reason being is not for their "safety", but because they cannot be taxed. Public be damned attitude by the government.

Philip Morris, who is behind the bill 100%, will LOVE this, as it will kill alternative methods of "smoking", clearing the way to sell their analogs for decades to come. Govt loves it because it's a steady source of money from taxes. Also being FDA "approved", more smokers are guaranteed for generations to come, thinking smoking is now "safer" because they got the green light by the FDA. Big Pharmo loves it because they can still pump out smoking sussession crap like ths gum and patch that has been proven to be ineffective, plus all the drugs that they sell for chemo when you do finally get lung cancer. It's a lose-lose for the people.

The only one thing I will say in defense of Big Tobacco is that RJ Reynolds realizes this fact and has been against the bill since the very start.

 

[Smokin'Sandy]

I just read the entire, excruciatingly long document which is the new tobacco bill. It is stated in that document that the FDA may not ban any tobacco product including smokeless tobacco. Would ecigs be a part of this?

What? You didn't enjoy the read? I'm just kidding...I was the same way even after reading the references to the FD&C Act that the bill points to. This is where I was posting questions: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...portant-email-fda-supplier-25.html#post327071

Here is Bob's reply (which is a good one and I hope he doesn't mind me pulling his posts into here).

It is confusing, Smokin'Sandy. No question. There has been disagreement on this forum, and now in the courts, on exactly where the electronic cigarette fits in the marketplace.

If it's a drug product, the FDA already claims authority over it. If it's a tobacco product, then the FDA will have authority once the new bill now in the Senate is signed into law.

Either way, we e-smokers are in for a bumpy ride.

As a "new drug", the liquid and device will need required safety and efficacy studies. But some makers, notably Ruyan, have been at work on those needed studies. Ruyan has almost said (but hasn't) that it will attempt to get the e-cig certified as a Nicotine Replacement Therapy product.

That's an interesting route, and it might mean that only three months of study is needed, rather than years. Ninety days is the normal time prescribed for NRT products. Are they used that way? No. We all know people who have chewed nicotine gum for years. A former boss of mine has sucked nicotine lozenges for about five years now. But smoking cessation products are meant for three months of use before quitting cigarettes completely.

If we e-cig users quit cigarettes, but continue using our NRT product, well, so what? Same thing happens with other NRTs.

Now, if we're a tobacco product, the prospect of market success diminishes, in my opinion. We will be a "new product" and face an FDA subcommittee of scientists who must approve each new product. The word from Senators is that new products have no chance of approval. E-cigs will be rejected.

Course, if Philip Morris wants approval of its Aria nicotine inhaler ... that's another story. If Big Pharma comes up with medicinal nicotine liquid and a delivery system that vaporizes that liquid .. that's another story. If Altria buys Janty, nJoy, Crown7 and Smoking Everywhere .. that's another story.

Adding to the confusion is the fact that we have no idea what is being done behind Washington's closed doors. But you can bet that plenty is. Lobbying must be 24/7. There is too much money at stake here not to go all out, if you're Big Pharma or Big Tobacco. This is a sizable chunk of future revenues hanging on actions now.

A ban today is a profit tomorrow.

 

[Vicks Vap-oh-Yeah]

I just read the entire, excruciatingly long document which is the new tobacco bill. It is stated in that document that the FDA may not ban any tobacco product including smokeless tobacco. Would ecigs be a part of this?

From what I remember, the only products protected this way are ones that hit the market before Feb of 2007 - that's the magical cutoff. Anything that debuted after that would be pulled from the shelves and have to undergo FDA guideline testing to prove safety and effacy before being allowed back on the market - IF they could produce a study - <read - mega $$$ to re-introduce a product!>

Sooo - even if SE and NJoy were to get their products classified as "tobacco" devises, this legislation will force them off the market. This also forces SNUS, some snuff, the dissolvables, the lozenges, orbs, sticks, strips.... in short - most of the alternative-tobacco products out there, since they were developed and marketed after this date (in response to the more restrictive smoking policies cropping up all over the place)

this is why this bill protects PM - it pulls competing products that are more popular, because you can use them in places you can't smoke, off the market, and forces all us users back into the "quit or die trying" box.

What I'm trying to figure out is a next step once this monster passes.

 

[Lazarus]

I know, but his name isn't on it. Waxman's is. When it comes time to pass a bill in Kennedy's name, it's going to be the general health care initiative, not this tobacco regulation bill. Kennedy's name is on the health care bill and his situation is directly relevant to it. The Democratic caucus won't want to spend that political capitol on the FDA bill when it's needed to get universal health care passed.

The bill will most likely go down with his name attached to it, like I stated in my previous post.

 

[Surf Monkey]

From what I remember, the only products protected this way are ones that hit the market before Feb of 2007 - that's the magical cutoff. Anything that debuted after that would be pulled from the shelves and have to undergo FDA guideline testing to prove safety and effacy before being allowed back on the market - IF they could produce a study - <read - mega $$$ to re-introduce a product!>

And how exactly will it be proven that e-cigarettes were introduced after Febuary of 2007? These devices have been in existence since long before that, and though they seem to have come onto the US market around that time, there would have to be some specific, verifiable evidence that they were introduced on a specific date after the cutoff point in order for them to be regulated under the bill.

As I've said before, I don't think it's quite time to panic yet. There are a lot of x-factors here that need to be addressed before we know what the actual situation is.