Seriously, is there a placebo effect in diying?

[FRANKSTER]

I have been diying for only 3 weeks and I have made approx. 15 batches of juice. Each juice that I first try, in my opinion is great, then about 2 hours into vaping it, The juice starts to just taste awful, did I think it was good because I made it or is something else going on?

I have not had any juice from a vendor in 3 weeks so I have no point of reference as far as taste goes, but I really did not like the juice from vendors anyway. I am wondering though if what I am making is better or worse in my opinion to what is being sold out there. I really do not know because I have vaped so many juices that I cannot even remember what they tasted like. I cannot even remember what DULSIS tasted like because it has been so long since I had it.

I have tried many juices from vendors and there are only 2 juices that I would buy a second time. That tells you what I think about the juice that is out there. I only bought one juice a second time and I hated it the second time.

I am beginning to think that I am now just judging a juice that I make relative to what I have made already and not to what the vendors are selling. Can this be the case? Has anyone experienced this? I made a juice yesterday and I loved it and now, I do not even know what it taste like, but yet I am vaping it constantly. I guess we all did that with analogs.

As long as my addiction is satisfied, I will vape almost anything(even crab juice). So my question is this. Do you really think the juice that you are mixing is really good or you just think it is good because:
1. you made it
2. you have no reference point to outside juices
3. You don't care, your addiction is being satisfied
or
4. It is just a cheaper way to vape?

I am going to continue vaping even if I think the juice is horrible because it is a much better alternative to smoking. I just wanted sort of a cherry on top if the taste was great.

Also, does bwb give out their recipes?...lol...just curious.

 

[Str8V8ping]

"I have been diying for only 3 weeks and I have made approx. 15 batches of juice. Each juice that I first try, in my opinion is great, then about 2 hours into vaping it, The juice starts to just taste awful, did I think it was good because I made it or is something else going on?"

Just from that first statement i know for a fact you are overflavoring your juices . TOO MUCH flavor = NO flavor . When you mix up a juice your trying to get it to taste good correct ? Well that is your problem .Once the juice steep and the flavor intenifies it becomes over flavored resulting in no flavor or bad flavor . Everyone makes this mistake when starting out even me .When i mix now i try to just get a hint of taste when i test is so when it steeps it reaches its sweet spot and doesnt fall off the steep cliff . Usually there will be tons of flavor with good body without me even needing sweeteners when i dont overflavor it .

ALso no vendors give out there recipes or they would be out of business .

Some of the recipes i have made are much better than even some of my favorite vendors juice . Not just saying that either . I have made tons that werent though as well . Good recipes take time to be perfected and come out as good as a vendor . Its not as simple as just throwing two flavors you like in there . SOmetime 1% more or less can ruin a juice . You have to get the combonation right like your putting in the code to a safe .Vendors work for a long time on a single recipe .Sometimes even months to perfect it. All the ones i made that were better than vendors juices took lots of testing and sometimes about 10 different versions split up into 10 individual samples.

Hoosier has a great method you should search for .

 

[Hoosier]

I have been diying for only 3 weeks and I have made approx. 15 batches of juice. Each juice that I first try, in my opinion is great, then about 2 hours into vaping it, The juice starts to just taste awful, did I think it was good because I made it or is something else going on?

Something else, unless you easily sway yourself on a regular basis...

From Hoosier's notes on mixing...

Once a recipe tastes close to right, set it aside. Come back to it at a later point and taste it again and judge if it got better or worse, and then, and only then, adjust the recipe.

So, add-make note-shake-taste and add-make note-shake-taste until close then walk away from that one. If you do that until it is "perfect" it may come out completely awful after it has had time to difuse.

 

[markfm]

Yes, don't rush, it's really good to get "close", then wait. I try to give things at least two days sitting on the side before I'll vape any significant amount, other than my daily vape, a simple two-flavor tobacco blend.

A vananaberry or car capp I let sit for 1 - 2 weeks before I'll send some out (I like to PIF). I've got a nice little caramel-vanilla-tobacco mix that seemed decent, mixed it for a new person to let his wife and son try, but just now is really kicking in, another 2-weeks-needed blend. I don't see VanTob going away as my all-day, but the Tob6 is nice to use for a bit at night

I don't think it's a placebo effect, I really do make some good eliquids. Not necessarily better than any particular other person's or company's mixes, just that they're tuned to what I like. Different people I've sent samples to like different things, though the vananaberry is pretty universally popular for those who like sweet.

I'm doing a nic reduction round now, so I also appreciate how DIY lets me easily drop 1 mg/ml every 10 days (and since I test my nic base, I know that what I'm mixing really is xx mg/ml).

 

[Ealisaid]

If you're having a problem with vendor liquids as well as the ones you make yourself, then it's probably not the juice. It's your tastebuds. It may be that your tastebuds are overly sensitive (maybe to just some flavors, or maybe to all of them) or not sensitive enough, or it may be that you just don't like PG and/or VG. What happens if you vape flavorless all-PG or all-VG? Does that taste bad to you after a while? What about vapes that consist of only one flavor? (i.e. A lot of blends have a vanilla of some sort in there, so if you didn't like vanilla flavoring, a lot of things would taste awful to you.) If you experiment a bit, you should be able to narrow it down and find out exactly what it is that bothers you.

 

[Str8V8ping]

Hoosier very vague question but you posted your method in a thread a while ago in a thread . The guy was saying he was talking to you in PM and wanted to ask you if it was ok to share it before he posted it . Do you remember that thread ? Maybe you can post that method again here to help him . I tried searching but cant find it . I could have swore i bookmarked it but its not there . It was about how you mix each flavor and split it up from a bigger bottle and then work on the individual bottles to tweak it . I know very vague of a question but if you remember what im talking about im sure it can help him .

 

[Str8V8ping]

BTW to the op . On one of your bad ones try adding more Pg to it and see what happens . Test and let it sit again for a couple more days . Odds are it will be a little better if it was good when you first made it .

The first couple weeks i was DIY'ing i was making one bad juice after another and thought DIY'ing was a joke and there was no way i could ever get near a good vendors juice .That was until i learned about overflavoring and i then resisted the erge to say hmm let me add a few extra drops here and a drop there . Less is more . Steeping 9 times out of 10 makes a world of difference and brings out the true taste and ricness but if overflavored its gonna taste like your drinking the flavorings .

 

[Hoosier]

Hoosier very vague question but you posted your method in a thread a while ago in a thread . The guy was saying he was talking to you in PM and wanted to ask you if it was ok to share it before he posted it . Do you remember that thread ? Maybe you can post that method again here to help him . I tried searching but cant find it . I could have swore i bookmarked it but its not there . It was about how you mix each flavor and split it up from a bigger bottle and then work on the individual bottles to tweak it . I know very vague of a question but if you remember what im talking about im sure it can help him .

I think that was in reference to tobacco blend mixing? I really have a bad memory... It's a vague question and I have a vague recollection...

 

[FRANKSTER]

"I have been diying for only 3 weeks and I have made approx. 15 batches of juice. Each juice that I first try, in my opinion is great, then about 2 hours into vaping it, The juice starts to just taste awful, did I think it was good because I made it or is something else going on?"

Just from that first statement i know for a fact you are overflavoring your juices . TOO MUCH flavor = NO flavor . When you mix up a juice your trying to get it to taste good correct ? Well that is your problem .Once the juice steep and the flavor intenifies it becomes over flavored resulting in no flavor or bad flavor . Everyone makes this mistake when starting out even me .When i mix now i try to just get a hint of taste when i test is so when it steeps it reaches its sweet spot and doesnt fall off the steep cliff . Usually there will be tons of flavor with good body without me even needing sweeteners when i dont overflavor it .

ALso no vendors give out there recipes or they would be out of business .

Some of the recipes i have made are much better than even some of my favorite vendors juice . Not just saying that either . I have made tons that werent though as well . Good recipes take time to be perfected and come out as good as a vendor . Its not as simple as just throwing two flavors you like in there . SOmetime 1% more or less can ruin a juice . You have to get the combonation right like your putting in the code to a safe .Vendors work for a long time on a single recipe .Sometimes even months to perfect it. All the ones i made that were better than vendors juices took lots of testing and sometimes about 10 different versions split up into 10 individual samples.

Hoosier has a great method you should search for .

Thank you...I think that is my problem...too much flavoring , that is exactly what I have been doing. 20 percent flavoring...In my mind, less wont have any taste...I will try 5 percent one tobacco with just one other flavor...see how that goes. I know that no-one would give out their recipes...lol...that is why I take free recipes with a grain of salt.

Thanks for the info.

 

[Str8V8ping]

I think that was in reference to tobacco blend mixing? I really have a bad memory... It's a vague question and I have a vague recollection...

Nope wasnt about tobaccos but yea i dont blame you for not remembering .It was a super vague question lol . It was the best info iv read since starting though .

 

[AzPlumber]

1. Stuff always tastes better when made by your own hands. (spaghetti, stew, chili, e-liquid)
2. E-Liquid changes over time.
3. Tastes Buds change over time.

 

[Hoosier]

Was it this?

I start with my base, 0 nic if I'm looking to save some $, and add flavoring to the base. I'll actually make a few mixes with the same flavor at various percentages and try each one. Let's say I mixed flavoring X at 5% in one bottle, 10% in another, 15% in yet another, and 20% in the fourth bottle. Let's also say that I found the 5% way too light and the 20% too perfumey, but the 15% is kinda' close. I'd then take the 20% and 15% and mix them together. For this example, to keep my math simple, I put 2ml of the 20% and 3ml of the 15% in another bottle and have the new 17% mix tasting right. That is what I underline in my notes.

(The above can all be done in one bottle adding flavoring until it goes too far and then dilluting with base to get back to the level that works. I just use many bottles so I can clean up and then take notes of the tastes over a period of a few weeks.)

So, I have found one component of what I want to get now. Let's say that another one component of the combined flavor I'm going for is found to be 7% and the third flavor is 12%. I then mix those 3 together, the 7, the 12, and the 17 and start tasting. Some flavors will combine and enhance each other and those need to be pulled down. If I mixed 1/3 of 7% and 1/3 of 12% and 1/3 of 17% and find the 7% flavor and the 12% flavor enhance each other and drowned out the 17% flavor, then I might go back with a 1/2 of 17% and 1/4 of the other two to see if that works.

After all this mixing and remixing I find something that is working and I start deconstructing the result to make the recipe that I record. Then I will take the flavoring of this final recipe and put them in a 30ml bottle at the proper amounts and add in nicotine and base to complete it. I tweak this mix and refine the recipe and make a final record of the recipe.

 

[Bostonsnboxers]

Something else, unless you easily sway yourself on a regular basis...

From Hoosier's notes on mixing...

Once a recipe tastes close to right, set it aside. Come back to it at a later point and taste it again and judge if it got better or worse, and then, and only then, adjust the recipe.

So, add-make note-shake-taste and add-make note-shake-taste until close then walk away from that one. If you do that until it is "perfect" it may come out completely awful after it has had time to difuse.

I'd pay attention when this guy offers up help...I do
Also, I find it really helps to have at least 2 or 3 juices mixed up at the same time and alternate between them....if possible, nothing TOO similar. When testing, be sure and clear your palette first (drink of water, wait a bit after tasting strong flavors, and definately not right after having a smoke!) and try to do your testing/tweaking around the same time of day. Results may vary from person to person, so whenever YOU feel your tastebuds are sharpest.

I had the same issue with vendors' juices...never bought one twice and would rather vape PLAIN unflavored juice than the majority of them. No one else knows what you like like you do, and eventually when you get a feel for flavorings you'll mix toward that end so of course what you make is going to taste better!

At least you haven't (or haven't fessed up to) done what my first few mixes were...unvapable drain food! lol! Start with small amounts of flavor (5%) wait a bit, taste, and work up from there. You'll be making tasty mixes in no time. Love your avatar btw

~Patti

 

[FRANKSTER]

BTW to the op . On one of your bad ones try adding more Pg to it and see what happens . Test and let it sit again for a couple more days . Odds are it will be a little better if it was good when you first made it .

The first couple weeks i was DIY'ing i was making one bad juice after another and thought DIY'ing was a joke and there was no way i could ever get near a good vendors juice .That was until i learned about overflavoring and i then resisted the erge to say hmm let me add a few extra drops here and a drop there . Less is more . Steeping 9 times out of 10 makes a world of difference and brings out the true taste and ricness but if overflavored its gonna taste like your drinking the flavorings .

That is again exactly what I do...put more drops in of this and that until the total flavor collapses.lol

 

[Str8V8ping]

Was it this?

Yup thats it .Good find and memory . ANd im the young one smh lol . Bookmarked this time !

 

[Shilo]

Actually to me things other people make like food always taste better to me--freud stuff there probably. With ejuice this theory does not apply for me as I have found only a small handful of juices out there I would buy more than once. My purpose in DIY is to save money, know whats in my juice and make juices I like and be able to tweak them to my liking. Perfection is not my goal- a simple but good vape is. I agree with AZ Plumber tastes change sometimes from day to day.

 

[Noodoggy]

or go flavorless like i do lol

 

[FRANKSTER]

I would love to know if everyone that starts a thread on diying gets the message that I am getting at the top of every thread that I go into on diying? If they do, fine, if they do not, there is no reason to post it on mine. I know exactly what I am doing...

 

[Hoosier]

Yeah, I hate that page of sticky info. Some folks think it's a "great idea" which lets me know they don't access this on a phone like I do. (That and I've been doing this a long time to have to wade through CYA verbage)

 

[Lizzebed]

Oh, I was wondering about is as well, it drives me insane. I'm working with dangerous chemicals in the lab on a daily basis. And if it would be just on the top of this subforum, okay, but really every page, of every thread? It is driving me insane, already! And I can't turn it off?

And Hoosier, try tapatalk if you are on phone, it doesn't show the message.

This probably deserves a thread on it's own, and maybe in one of the feedbackforums for ecf?