This is how it is for the vast majority of products, including consumed products, in this country.
this is typically reserved for products that make medical claims.
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Should Children be Allowed to Buy e-Liquids that contain Nicotine?
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This is how it is for the vast majority of products, including consumed products, in this country.
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Or things that are Put into an Adult's Body. Where the Effects are Unknown.
I used your definition for GRAS, so apparently you do, or you need to adjust your definition.
Which is technically the case with any new product, or combination of existing products.
Your justification for an age restriction is the same justification used for every other piece of anti vaping legislation, the ONLY difference is the extent to which you feel they should be restricted. What makes your feelings more important than Stanton Glantz's?
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Trying to Tie ones Views to someone like Slantz is a Nice Ploy. But it Doesn't hold much Water with any but the Uninformed.
Post your Studies that Show No Ill Effects on Adolescents as I mentioned in Post #312 and we can have a Meaningful Discussion.
Else this has just Degraded in Calling people ANTZ.
Post your Studies that Show No Ill Effects on Adolescents as I mentioned in Post #312 and we can have a Meaningful Discussion.
Else this has just Degraded in Calling people ANTZ.
Please answer this question with as much clarity as you can: Is your position that minors should not be allowed to legally purchase e-liquid that contains nicotine based on the fact that we do not currently know that they are harmless?
Now Lessifer, if I thought Adolescents Buying e-Liquids that contain Nicotine was Harmless, I Wouldn't be Opposed to it.
So now let me Ask you a Question. Why do you keep Posting to me in this Thread?
I'm trying to be Nice because I am the OP. But it Doesn't seem like we are Going Over any New Ground here. Just kinda Going Back and Forth. And Around and Around.
This Thread was to See How Many People were For, and how Many were Against selling e-Liquids to Minors.
You are For. I am Against. I'm Not Sure how much More needs to be Said?
In fairness to the "for" side: minors are allowed to purchase caffeine which like nicotine is a mild stimulant drug which is also addictive and potentially dangerous. You can't deny society draws arbitrary lines. Alcohol is way more dangerous than most things which are outlawed.
Now Zoidman, that is not an answer to my question. Can you please, outline for me, your justifications for wanting sales to minors prohibited? You accused me of falsely tying your views to those of glANTZ, I would like you to tell me how it is false.
As for why I keep responding to you, because you keep responding to me. I went back and checked, my first post expressed my views, my second clarified them, then you posted questioning them so I've been responding ever since. I post reasoned statements, with supporting evidence and logic, you respond with "blah blah blah wants to give children nicotine blah blah." You haven't looked at any evidence I or others have provided, yet whenever we post, whether To You or to someone else, you feel the need to spout your same "we just don't know enough, won't you think of the children?"
I don't think you Want to have a Discussion Anymore Lessifer. Because all you want to do is Rehash what has Already been said in this Thread Multiple times.
So why Don't you have the Last Word.
I hope you don't feel like I'm attacking you, I really would like to have a discussion. Could you please answer the question?
What differentiates your justification for not allowing sales to minors, from the general "public health" justification for wanting stricter regulation for e-cigs?
You know it is hard to say. Kids that want to smoke will smoke. I started at 12. My son smoked at 14. Tried everything till he was 16 to get him to stop. If they had e-smokes back then I likely would have bought him one and I could control it and wean down the nicotine over time. Unfortunately that was 20 years ago. But I would have been the one buying it so the answer would be yes. CHEERS!
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Thers almost no differance then a 14 year old kid buying an energy drink (wich also happens to be addicting) then nicotine eliquid. The cruel irony beeing the drink will kill em sooner yet people are up in flames over vapor..... its hard for me to give a deffinite answer on this because i was driving, drinking, and smoking all while under age. Its a tough subject but i would rather see a 14 year old pick up vaping as a hobby then see em sitting outside a mall chain smoking a pack of menthals or reds. Sad world we live in
doing it right since 97'
doing it right since 97'
IOW, I will not answer that question that was asked to me directly. I have no justifications for my take on why nicotine eLiquid should be forbidden to children, and to the degree that it appears like I do have justifications, they are, in fact, no different than how ANTZ justifies strictly controlling vape stuff.
Here is what I, Jman, wrote earlier on this thread
Skepticism of the science, from all sides, is healthy. The unknowns involved with vaping are a fine justification for one either to not vape, or to not allow their children to vape, if the unknowns are enough of a concern on a personal level. However, an unknown possibility of potential harm should never be the basis for legislation, especially legislation that could be used to kill an entire industry as life changing as vaping.
Here is what I, Jman, wrote earlier on this thread
As long as you are Posting things that you have Said in this Thread, why Don't you post this Also?
What I Don't Understand Jman8 is if you want to Sell Nicotine to All Kids, if you Really Want to sell Nicotine to All Kids, why don't you Start a Petition calling for the Repeal of that Portion of the Wisconsin Tobacco Control Act?
At the Very Least, Why Don't you Start a Thread here on the ECF, like what I did, and Call for Wisconsin Vapers to Join you in Your Fight to Sell Tobacco to Kids in Your State.
As long as you are Posting things that you have Said in this Thread, why Don't you post this Also?
zoiDman said:
Jman8 said:
What I Don't Understand Jman8 is if you want to Sell Nicotine to All Kids, if you Really Want to sell Nicotine to All Kids, why don't you Start a Petition calling for the Repeal of that Portion of the Wisconsin Tobacco Control Act?
At the Very Least, Why Don't you Start a Thread here on the ECF, like what I did, and Call for Wisconsin Vapers to Join you in Your Fight to Sell Tobacco to Kids in Your State.
It is a Tough Subject.
And like 99% of the things in the World, there is No 1 Solution of Policy that is going to Work for Everyone.
It's more about Numbers. How Many People are going to Benefit? How Many are No going to Benefit? How Many are going to be Harmed?
Exactly, no matter what laws are passed ther will be people who benifit and oppose its impossible to satisfy everyone
doing it right since 97'
doing it right since 97'
The quote you had was about "legal access" to which I said absolutely. The reason I don't petition the government for this is I recognize that "we the people" have an overwhelming desire to discriminate against minors. If I see that changing, I will be fully on board to try to change the currently written discriminatory laws. In the meantime, I just debate and discuss where the issue comes up and hope to plant a seed for future considerations.
On vaping forums, where people are constantly discussing regulations and making note about what our adversaries (ANTZ) are up to, I make it a point to make note that I see this issue (forbidding legal access) as the regulation that drives the rest.
Gotcha.
Would like it to Change. But Acknowledge that it is Very Unlikely to Change anytime soon.
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