Should Children be Allowed to Buy e-Liquids that contain Nicotine?

[zoiDman]

Watched the whole thing. Most of it is a rant that I think would benefit some vapers. As one who's advocated for vaping with respect, everywhere, I didn't experience the "I don't give a darn" attitude he had years/months ago. He also says he will still vape in a movie theater if not many people are present. Thus not so anti-public (indoor) vaping. But to conclude that people can't be affected outdoors is convenient to his position, but not an accurate depiction. His overall point seems to be about having more awareness of environment you are vaping in. AKA, vape everywhere with respect.

See. If you are Willing to listen to Something, you might even Find some things you Like.

So what did you think about the Girl in the Coffee Shop having a Reaction to SHV. Because this is where All this Started.

 

[AndriaD]

I dunno how many people could be Allergic to SHV?

I know that I Drove a women home from work one time who's car Broke Down. When we get in Me car, I asked Her if she minded that I vape. She said no, that it would be Fine. So I cracked My window about 2 Inches, and did her's for Good Measure and started to take some hits. Doing my Best to blow as much SHV out my Window.

We got about 2 Blocks down the Road and She Started to Sneeze. Big Sneezes. And Lots of them. One after Another. Then She Started to Laugh and Sneeze. And that kinda just made it Worse. Had to Pull over because I had started to Laugh so hard Also.

It was Truly Funny. And she Wasn't Mad. But I Never vaped around Her ever Again.

How nice to find someone with a sense of humor! I'm not quite that bad, but I've noticed that I seem to sneeze a LOT more than I have since I was a kid; I do have quite a few allergies, including cats (and we have one!) so it's not a big deal to me, and actually it's a good thing, since sneezing is one way our resp. systems have for getting rid of stuff that shouldn't be in there. I think it's likely the absence of all those topical-anesthetic chemicals that BT puts in cigarette tobacco, because I do seem to recall that sometimes as a teen, if I was having a bad allergy attack, smoking could help it pass faster, after taking antihistamines. I think the general effect of those chemicals is just making our whole respiratory tract less sensitive, and what I've read abiout them seems to bear that out; I think it carries over to allergic sensitivity too. (ETA: this might have something to do with how vaping makes some folks cough when they first start; at the same time they're starting to inhale this new stuff, and maybe don't yet have the right levels and ratios of everything, their lungs are getting more sensitive due to not smoking -- because I noticed some coughing soon after quitting, anytime I was around any kind of smoke, which used to not bother me.)

Andria

 

[Jman8]

So what did you think about the Girl in the Coffee Shop having a Reaction to SHV. Because this is where All this Started.

I think it is so highly unusual that I wouldn't let that be a guiding factor for all of my future vaping, if it happened to me. I'd probe it a little to see what she was experiencing, and then possibly conclude that my vaping around her, particularly, is not a good thing for as long as I desire to be in that situation.

Wouldn't really matter if it were outdoor patio, if she is that sensitive.

 

[zoiDman]

She was what I would call the "Silent Majority" of Non-Vapers.

She Doesn't care if Adults use an e-Cigarette. She isn't out there beating an ANTZ Drum. And she was Very Happy that I Switched. Because she knew how Long I had Smoked. And how I had Tried to Quit Many Times. And told me once that she Didn't know how Harmful e-Cigarettes were, but that they Couldn't be Nearly as Bad as Cigarettes. Because she saw me go from getting Winded by taking the Stairs 2 at a time. To riding my Bike and average of 125 Miles/week after Switching.

She wasn't for Indoor Vaping. And was in Favor on Indoor Bans. But she had No Problem with people Stepping Outside to take a Vape. Or a Cigarette for that matter. And she Opposed the Campus wide Ban which included Outdoor Open Air Spaces when it was proposed.

 

[Jman8]

In my experience, she is representative of the minority of non-vapers.

I have many non-vaping friends who when I ask are always surprised there is any political issue going on, as they probably aren't all that aware that politics played a role in anti-smoking stuff.

When I was recently at ball park (Miller Park), I was around non-vapers that were encouraging me to vape there in front of them, and again couldn't see why anyone would have any issues with it. So I did, and at no point did any staff member from the park approach me. I will admit I did ask, and they were hesitant to saying yes, but told them I'd be very discreet. Which I was until the non-vapers were like "why?"

 

[zoiDman]

In my experience, she is representative of the minority of non-vapers.

I have many non-vaping friends who when I ask are always surprised there is any political issue going on, as they probably aren't all that aware that politics played a role in anti-smoking stuff.

When I was recently at ball park (Miller Park), I was around non-vapers that were encouraging me to vape there in front of them, and again couldn't see why anyone would have any issues with it. So I did, and at no point did any staff member from the park approach me. I will admit I did ask, and they were hesitant to saying yes, but told them I'd be very discreet. Which I was until the non-vapers were like "why?"

Oh I can Name Times when a Non-Vaper has had a Hissy Fit. Like the Time an Old Lady went out of here way to approach me in the Middle of a Home Depot parking Lot to tell me that "those things" were going to Kill Me.

I'm sure Everyone has had a Bad Experience or Two.

But on Average, I just don't think Most people Care if an Adult wants to use an e-Cigarette or Not. Vaping is Not Allowed in Most/Almost All of the Indoor places if Go. And if people are Not Vaping Inside these Places, No One Seems to Care.

 

[Jman8]

I vape inside Home Depot, and never been approached yet by anyone.

All of the time I get grief about vaping indoors in public is on ECF.

4+ years of vaping and still batting 1.000. I feel pretty confident about vaping everywhere, with respect.

 

[zoiDman]

I vape inside Home Depot, and never been approached yet by anyone.

All of the time I get grief about vaping indoors in public is on ECF.

4+ years of vaping and still batting 1.000. I feel pretty confident about vaping everywhere, with respect.

Don't know what it is Like in Wisconsin. And just because people aren't approaching you Doesn't Necessarily mean you aren't Pissing People Off.

Like I said earlier, Most people I know and interact with Don't really care about Adults using an e-Cigarette. Now if you are Vaping indoors where No Vaping Signs are Posted. Some are going to get Bent. Or if you tell them you want to Sell e-Liquids to their Children, sure, they are going to bring down the Thunder.

But all in all, I just Don't think most of the General Public cares all that much.

 

[Jman8]

And just because people aren't approaching you Doesn't Necessarily mean you aren't Pissing People Off.

You could say this about anything. Literally anything.

But all in all, I just Don't think most of the General Public cares all that much.

I agree, which is more reason to not act like it is a no-no or inherently disrespectful to vape indoors.

 

[zoiDman]

I agree, which is more reason to not act like it is a no-no or inherently disrespectful to vape indoors.

Yeaaah.... But you kinda Glossed over this Part.

"Like I said earlier, Most people I know and interact with Don't really care about Adults using an e-Cigarette. Now if you are Vaping indoors where No Vaping Signs are Posted. Some are going to get Bent. Or if you tell them you want to Sell e-Liquids to their Children, sure, they are going to bring down the Thunder."

If an Indoor place is Designated as Non Vaping, and a Vaper doesn't Honor this, there Will be Problems.

And I Can't Think a Better way to turn Most Non Caring people about Vaping into Hard Core e-Cigarette Hater's then to tell them you want their Children to be able to by e-Liquids that contain Nicotine.

 

[Jman8]

And I Can't Think a Better way to turn Most Non Caring people about Vaping into Hard Core e-Cigarette Hater's then to tell them you want their Children to be able to by e-Liquids that contain Nicotine.

Yeah, cause it comes up in conversation all the time.

 

[zoiDman]

Yeah... And every Time I talk to someone Outside the ECF about e-Cigarettes, I Thank God that It Doesn't.

 

[hurricanegirl100]

Hurricanegirl100 makes up stuff and seemingly can't use the quote feature to back up her rhetoric.

The good news is she won't be able to reply to this for she has nothing else to say about Jman8.

Woohoo, I win!

So sorry, Jman - I have a life. But, here you go...and thank you, Zoidman.

This was the original post:
I started vaping about 6 months ago; I am now completely winged off "Analog" cigarettes. I am glad that there is a Safer alternative to smoking, but I always hear and see complaints about E cigarette users. Now I treat my E-Cig as I would if it were a "Analog", I don't smoke in Walmarts or in Restaurants, because even though it's not a "Real" cigarette I find it disrespectful to others around you (Who don't smoke).

Getting to my story, today I took my 2 month old son and daughter (Twins) for their check up and shots. Me and my girlfriend were sitting in the lobby with around 5 other people with their children and infants with them. I noticed this woman sitting across the room bringing her jacket pocket up to her mouth (trying to be sneaky I guess), and exhaled a big plume of Vapor.

I of course got extremely POed, and said something to the woman, how it was disrespectful with all these Infants sitting within 10 feet of her "Vaping".

I just think it's crazy how disrespectful some people get with the whole "It's not a real cigarette, so I can smoke it when and where I want".

In fairness to Jman8, a lot of people agreed that there was nothing wrong with vaping in the waiting room of a pediatrician's office. And a lot of people disagreed, too..

I started vaping about 6 months ago; I am now completely winged off "Analog" cigarettes. I am glad that there is a Safer alternative to smoking, but I always hear and see complaints about E cigarette users. Now I treat my E-Cig as I would if it were a "Analog", I don't smoke in Walmarts or in Restaurants, because even though it's not a "Real" cigarette I find it disrespectful to others around you (Who don't smoke).

This was your response:
Why do you find it disrespectful? Do you think there is some harm involved? Not sure?
Do you think it would be overboard to consider anyone breathing in public as disrespectful? I mean, we could all wear masks over our mouths which would filter the air we exhale. As no one knows for sure what people are exhaling when out and about, wouldn't the respectful thing be for all of us to be wearing these sort of masks?

It's okay, guy. I like to win, too.

 

[Sanctuary Denied]

Because a person could vape zero nic would be the obvious answer.

But this thread is about being allowed to buy eLiquids that contain nicotine. And as explained in this thread (and many other places on ECF), this particular regulation drives all the rest. All of them. Therefore, it likely won't be different to the uninformed, non vapers. It will be different to the informed anti types and informed vaping people. In essence, it is revisiting the older battle, but with some obvious differences, and the common ingredient of nicotine at the forefront.

A vaping enthusiast ought to understand what is being fought for and why. To the degree that understanding is lacking, open forum discussion may help correct ignorance around the historical battle that is anti types looking to shame nic users and seek an end game where no one is using, regardless of their reasons for doing so.

Note: End game though is at least 1000 years away.

I agree with you 100%.
Until the public is educated I think people should not flaunt their vaping and use, what I consider, proper vaping educate.
It only takes a few individuals testing the limits of what they can get away with to give all vapers a bad name making it even more difficult for vaping to become widely accepted.

 

[hurricanegirl100]

It's nothing personal, here. But just for the sake of argument, what if the entire vaping community got vocal - we would tolerate ZERO RESTRICTIONS on vaping. Not childproof bottles, not banning sales to minors, we wanna vape any place our little hearts desire!

The ANTZ would have a field day with us.

This whole "no-compromise, no-quarter" attitude that currently pervades the U.S. government has resuted in two of the most ineffectual Congresses in American history. It's crap....we have to listen to each other, the non-smokers, the smokers and the vapers. Understand their concerns, and when it's FOR THE CHILDREN (yeah, I know it's a ploy, but it's a ploy that works!) be willing to make at least SOME concessions.

And vapers who argue that we shouldn't make any concessions, IMHO, are almost as dangerous as the ANTZ. Chucking clouds in an enclosed, public place too often could potentially create the legal problems those damn ANTZ WANT us to have!

 

[AndriaD]

And vapers who argue that we shouldn't make any concessions, IMHO, are almost as dangerous as the ANTZ. Chucking clouds in an enclosed, public place too often could potentially create the legal problems those damn ANTZ WANT us to have!

I don't "chuck clouds" when I'm all by myself in my own home, and I'm very far from the only one; those of us who don't do it then, aren't going to start doing it in public just to make a point. Besides which, "chucking clouds" sounds much too uncomfortably close to "upchucking" which I hope I never have to do again as long as I live. I vape, and my vapor dissipates in seconds, and hasn't yet offended anyone. Of course I have an adult's sense of time and place; certainly there are places where it's inappropriate, and I don't need a sign or a law or a nanny to tell me when and where. I don't vape in the grocery store or the library, but as soon as I hit the door, I'm vaping -- it's my "vapor screen" to protect me from the stench of cigarette smoke just outside the door.

I don't think we should make concessions precisely because our opponents aren't willing to make ANY; on the contrary, they want us all to just die and be done with it, or at the very least JUST STOP whatever we're doing that they disapprove of, as if they have the right to dictate that. Making concessions to those people is equivalent to bargaining with terrorists. If the concessions went both ways, then sure, we should absolutely negotiate something that everyone can live with -- but they just aren't that reasonable; they want it all, their way, all the time, everywhere -- people who act like that are generally 2 yr olds in need of a nap, and a good parent doesn't bargain with the obstinate tot, he or she puts the obstinate one to bed: no concessions.

Andria

 

[hurricanegirl100]

I don't "chuck clouds" when I'm all by myself in my own home, and I'm very far from the only one; those of us who don't do it then, aren't going to start doing it in public just to make a point. Besides which, "chucking clouds" sounds much too uncomfortably close to "upchucking" which I hope I never have to do again as long as I live. I vape, and my vapor dissipates in seconds, and hasn't yet offended anyone. Of course I have an adult's sense of time and place; certainly there are places where it's inappropriate, and I don't need a sign or a law or a nanny to tell me when and where.

I hear you, Andria! But not everybody's that considerate!

I don't vape in the grocery store or the library, but as soon as I hit the door, I'm vaping -- it's my "vapor screen" to protect me from the stench of cigarette smoke just outside the door.

See? Right there! You use common sense!

I don't think we should make concessions precisely because our opponents aren't willing to make ANY; on the contrary, they want us all to just die and be done with it, or at the very least JUST STOP whatever we're doing that they disapprove of, as if they have the right to dictate that. Making concessions to those people is equivalent to bargaining with terrorists. If the concessions went both ways, then sure, we should absolutely negotiate something that everyone can live with -- but they just aren't that reasonable; they want it all, their way, all the time, everywhere -- people who act like that are generally 2 yr olds in need of a nap, and a good parent doesn't bargain with the obstinate tot, he or she puts the obstinate one to bed: no concessions.

Andria

I respectfully disagree with that last paragraph. June has come and gone, and not a single Federal reg on our PV's. The Surgeon General started a Twitter feed asking for vaping success stories this past week! The Feds are wary of coming down too hard on us...

The states are where I see the threat. And they're not gonna get high and mighty about the dangers of vaping - they're just gonna tax it to death!
Not everybody who disagrees is a two year old lol...and we can't treat them like they are. Or they're liable to respond in kind!

 

[VNeil]

I received some Flak from a Few Members in another thread when I Posted that I am in Favor of Not Selling e-Liquids that contain Nicotine to Children or Minors.

So I am Curious if Other Members think there should be an Age Limit to buy e-Liquids that contain Nicotine?

Or if Anyone should be able to Buy e-Liquids that contain Nicotine at Any Age?

The real question... if children should not be able to buy nic juice, should they be able to buy coffee?

Both with very similar psychological and physiological affects. Except I think coffee is known to be more addictive and nicotine actually has known health benefits and even a B vitamin number

It is far past time that coffee be put behind that special counter with the cigarettes and buyers carded for age.

 

[zoiDman]

The real question... if children should not be able to buy nic juice, should they be able to buy coffee?

...

No. That Isn't the Question.

The Question is Should Children be able to buy e-Liquids that contain Nicotine?

 

[stevegmu]

I guess kids should be allowed to use the other stuff, because some of the meds they are prescribed may be worse...