sigelei 150 watt with Samsung 25r @ 150 watts safe?

[jwleonhart]

As the title says, is the sigelei 150 watt safe to vape at 150 watts with the Samsung 25r battery?

I ask because after I researched this a bit I found out the sigelei boxes run in series so it effectively draws 40 amps if my calculations are correct at 150 watts from both batteries.

I have vapes this at 150 watts with no problem thus far. Obviously at 150 watts the hits are no more than a second nor have I felt the batteries get hot. I do occasionally take the magnetic door off and feel the batteries and they are barely over room temperature ever.

So that being said what are the opinions on this? Normally I will vape my RDA at around 120 watts but sometimes I like to really knock my socks off and bring it up to its max.... How safe is a regulated device like this ultimately...?

I have heard of people having there e-go sticks pop or a mech mod venting battery but since this is regulated should I truly be worried?

I've tried to read up on battery stuff but I just like to be more well informed so I know what is safe, what is not, the limits of such things. 2 Samsung batteries going pop would probably level half of my face to a bloody mess. God only knows I might lose my eyes too.

Thanks for the input!

 

[Bjorhyn]

I think you have the amp draw backwards, friend.

In series batteries, you double the available voltage but keep the same MaH and Amp rating.
Ie: two 4.2v 18650's each with 2100 MaH and 20c wired in series would give you in essence one battery with 8.4v, 2100 MaH and 20c.
Someone please correct me if I'm off.

I'm not terribly familiar with the Samsungs you're using, but it does sound like it could be over stressing the batteries at 150W depending on what ohms you're running.

 

[jwleonhart]

My understanding is in series you would have the same draw from each battery. So if the mod is requesting 150 watts at 8.4 volts it will request the same amperage from each battery. So each battery will be giving 40 amps.

Where was in parallel the amp draw is being g split so each battery will only be giving 20 amps to total the 40 amp limit

 

[Froth]

The Samsung 25R is a very robust battery, the 20A rating is continuous drain and that drain specification is not and never was designed with vape usage in mind. Vaping is not a continuous drain activity, it is by the very nature of it an on/off short burst period of usage. The 20A continuous rating means that the battery can drain at 20A for the entirety of the charge from 4.2V to cut-off voltage, even at 20A this continued long discharge still generates quite a lot of heat(upwards of 70°C) and that is because it is taking minutes not seconds to discharge. Samsung factory specifications state the battery is tested with bursts of discharge well exceeding the 20A continuous drain specification.

Because vaping is a burst use activity there is a whole lot of stuff left up in the air about how you choose to use your batteries and many people vehemently protest the usage of any battery at more than the constant drain rating even for a second in the name of safety and "protecting" vaping... Well, I'm not one of those people and I like to push the limits pretty hard. For the past couple of months I have pretty much only been vaping on builds from 0.12-0.15 ohms strictly with 18650 mech mods, my battery of choice is the Samsung 25R and I'm sure there will be others that like it just as much as I do for this exact purpose. They perform VERY well, even past the "hard limits", honestly they give the VTC5 something to worry about.

 

[Bjorhyn]

My understanding is in series you would have the same draw from each battery. So if the mod is requesting 150 watts at 8.4 volts it will request the same amperage from each battery. So each battery will be giving 40 amps.

Where was in parallel the amp draw is being g split so each battery will only be giving 20 amps to total the 40 amp limit

In series, those batteries together will still only have an amp limit equal to one battery.
Drawing 40 amps off a battery only rated for 20 can get dangerous. The limit is still 20 between the two batteries.

In parallel, that limit is doubled. Two 20 amp rated batteries will give you a max rating of 40.
That's why you end up seeing that in mechanical boxes instead of series.
Doubling the voltage without also doubling the amp limit (series) in a mech is an easy way to overshoot the amp limit by building too low.

I understand the appeal of vaping at 150w, I do it myself, but I urge you to do it safely.
Use a nice, hefty .3 ohm coil(s). At 150w, that's 7v and 22 amps. Easily supportable with most of the higher end batteries.

 

[Bjorhyn]

The Samsung 25R is a very robust battery, the 20A rating is continuous drain and that drain specification is not and never was designed with vape usage in mind. Vaping is not a continuous drain activity, it is by the very nature of it an on/off short burst period of usage. The 20A continuous rating means that the battery can drain at 20A for the entirety of the charge from 4.2V to cut-off voltage, even at 20A this continued long discharge still generates quite a lot of heat(upwards of 70°C) and that is because it is taking minutes not seconds to discharge. Samsung factory specifications state the battery is tested with bursts of discharge well exceeding the 20A continuous drain specification.

Because vaping is a burst use activity there is a whole lot of stuff left up in the air about how you choose to use your batteries and many people vehemently protest the usage of any battery at more than the constant drain rating even for a second in the name of safety and "protecting" vaping... Well, I'm not one of those people and I like to push the limits pretty hard. For the past couple of months I have pretty much only been vaping on builds from 0.12-0.15 ohms strictly with 18650 mech mods, my battery of choice is the Samsung 25R and I'm sure there will be others that like it just as much as I do for this exact purpose. They perform VERY well, even past the "hard limits", honestly they give the VTC5 something to worry about.

I really do hope you have all your fingers still.
I've been unfortunate enough to have had a reputable battery vent, very violently, while I was using it well within it's pulse rating but outside the continuous.

That is not something I would recommend. This is why we hear horror stories about mechs exploding in populated areas. One of these days it'll be the death of vaping as we know it.
It only takes once in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

[KenD]

A regulated mod functions differently from mech mods. At 150w, assuming 90% efficiency of the circuitry, the draw will be 20 amps with fully charged batteries (8.4v), 22.5 amps at battery nominal charge (2x 3.7v = 7.4v), and 26 amps with discharged batteries (2x 3.2 v = 6.4v, though I'm not sure what the cut-off voltage of the Sigelei is). Still over the cdr of the Samsungs though.

 

[Bjorhyn]

A regulated mod functions differently from mech mods. At 150w, assuming 90% efficiency of the circuitry, the draw will be 20 amps with fully charged batteries (8.4v), 22.5 amps at battery nominal charge (2x 3.7v = 7.4v), and 26 amps with discharged batteries (2x 3.2 v = 6.4v, though I'm not sure what the cut-off voltage of the Sigelei is). Still over the cdr of the Samsungs though.

This is true.
I really shouldn't be comparing mechs to regulated mods, but it's easier for me to explain why I think the way I do with those examples. They function similarly enough in the long run that it's not terribly far off, though.

For what it's worth, my Sig 150 cuts off at 7.5V.
The voltage drop is also pretty negligible.

 

[Froth]

That is not something I would recommend. This is why we hear horror stories about mechs exploding in populated areas. One of these days it'll be the death of vaping as we know it.
It only takes once in the wrong place at the wrong time.

No, it wont.

Also I never recommended anyone do it, only posted my experiences along with information so that others could make the decision themselves, nothing more.

I mentioned people like you in my first post too. Funny how you skipped that part.

Edit: What kind of battery vented on you? I'm not sure why you chose to leave out the name of a product that failed you, that's valuable information for others.

 

[jwleonhart]

I too would like to know the battery that vented on you.

So in other words at 150 watts doing quick 1-2 second hits I should be OK?

Anyone ever heaedbof a reputable vw device like an ipv or sigelei popping? Aren't there safety's in the circuitry to prevent this?

 

[Novalok]

Samsung 25R batteries are Pulse Rated at 100A for <1 Second pulses. 20A Continuous.

Now assuming you are building ~.16 which is my go to Build for my Sigelei, you will be pulling roughly 30A. Anything at .1 Ohm or Higher will not pull more than 40A at 150 Watts. So You are well within the limit of the Pulse Rate. Now it will get hot. And the Sigelei should tell you to check battery before failing and venting. So if it were me, vape away.

 

[jwleonhart]

Yea it never seems to get hot. I've been building around .3-.4 so I would assume I should be pretty safe.

I just don't want to experience a venting battery.

Not the mention the blue plastic on the battery is pretty crappyvand I've noticed huge scratches in it... I'm worried it may short.

 

[Bjorhyn]

No, it wont.

Also I never recommended anyone do it, only posted my experiences along with information so that others could make the decision themselves, nothing more.

I mentioned people like you in my first post too. Funny how you skipped that part.

Edit: What kind of battery vented on you? I'm not sure why you chose to leave out the name of a product that failed you, that's valuable information for others.

Yes, it will.

I never said you recommended it, just that I don't. And for very good reason.

It was a Sony VCT4. I didn't bother naming it because I felt what it did was more important than what it was.

 

[jwleonhart]

Yes, it will.

I never said you recommended it, just that I don't. And for very good reason.

It was a Sony VCT4. I didn't bother naming it because I felt what it did was more important than what it was.

Maybe it was a fake vtc4?

 

[Bjorhyn]

Maybe it was a fake vtc4?

I had thought about that, but it's fairly unlikely.
I bought a bunch from LightningVapes at the same time, the rest are going strong, and they're a reputable seller.

That doesn't mean it couldn't have been a faulty, or old, battery, but I'm confidant it was real.

 

[inswva]

Samsung 25R batteries are Pulse Rated at 100A for <1 Second pulses. 20A Continuous.

Now assuming you are building ~.16 which is my go to Build for my Sigelei, you will be pulling roughly 30A. Anything at .1 Ohm or Higher will not pull more than 40A at 150 Watts. So You are well within the limit of the Pulse Rate. Now it will get hot. And the Sigelei should tell you to check battery before failing and venting. So if it were me, vape away.

Atomizer resistance has no bearing on battery current drain (amp draw) in a regulated, variable wattage device. Your power setting and real time battery voltage determine battery amp draw. Atomizer resistance determines the board's output voltage and output current.

 

[philoshop]

Pulse testing is generally done with a disconnect switch in an explosion-proof testing box, not with a light-duty on/off switch next to someone's face. Exceeding the limits of the battery might very well fuse all of the electronics in a vaping device, thereby rendering the power button useless, before there is any chance to even drop it let alone get it away from bystanders. Things can happen quickly during a thermal event when high-amperage batteries are involved.
Even the constant discharge rates aren't an absolute guarantee when it comes to mass produced items. That's why we take into account a bit of head-room when it comes to batteries. I'm all for pushing the envelope in a lot of things I do, but I don't want to become the poster-child for insufficient QC in a factory somewhere half way around the world, or another statistic that makes the evening news.

 

[Wakefulpanda]

Play it safe man, if you don't know for sure that what you're doing is safe then just don't do it. Have fun though!

 

[InTheShade]

The Samsung 25R is a very robust battery, the 20A rating is continuous drain and that drain specification is not and never was designed with vape usage in mind. Vaping is not a continuous drain activity, it is by the very nature of it an on/off short burst period of usage. The 20A continuous rating means that the battery can drain at 20A for the entirety of the charge from 4.2V to cut-off voltage, even at 20A this continued long discharge still generates quite a lot of heat(upwards of 70°C) and that is because it is taking minutes not seconds to discharge. Samsung factory specifications state the battery is tested with bursts of discharge well exceeding the 20A continuous drain specification.

Because vaping is a burst use activity there is a whole lot of stuff left up in the air about how you choose to use your batteries and many people vehemently protest the usage of any battery at more than the constant drain rating even for a second in the name of safety and "protecting" vaping... Well, I'm not one of those people and I like to push the limits pretty hard. For the past couple of months I have pretty much only been vaping on builds from 0.12-0.15 ohms strictly with 18650 mech mods, my battery of choice is the Samsung 25R and I'm sure there will be others that like it just as much as I do for this exact purpose. They perform VERY well, even past the "hard limits", honestly they give the VTC5 something to worry about.

Risk is a sliding scale.

Obviously you are less risk averse than many here on the forum.

I'm not going to say you are incorrect by choosing to vape how you want, but I am going to say that I would not encourage any one else to follow your lead without considering their own expertise and desire to vape as safely as possible.

I certainly wouldn't tell anyone it's safe to exceed the continuous amp rating of their batteries.

 

[jwleonhart]

The volatile nature of lithium in itself wheb exposed to air is scary enough, let alone wheb it goes into thermal runaway. I wish there was a more safe battery technology available. It amazes me that lithium has been around so long with no suitable replacement yet found we went from cadmium to metal hydride then to lithium cells but we have been using lithium for the last 20 or so years regularly.