Smoke Juice Storage Tips

[sjohnson]

Rather than vacuum out air, consider using a sealed container and oxygen absorbers along with a dessicant. Often used for food storage, they only absorb oxygen, leaving the now prevalent nitrogen and other trace gases.

Oxygen absorber - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[skydvejam]

Well in about a year, I will have some tests myself in not so proper storage, joys of deploying, you do not have what you want most of the time. Might get some quite strong nic if I have what it takes to handle it, then again a full NBC suit should be more then enough, just use the gloves in our med kits.
On the plus side, I will have both my e-cig stuff, and mouse killer lol.

 

[Ctrl F8]

Glad you settled that. I haven't seen it addressed elsewhere. I agree that the MFS nic liquid is a thing of beauty.

 

[miss MiA]

Does anyone think these convenient, inexpensive, blow-dryer applied shrink bands would do much as a main way to help keep air out of glass bottles? (Assuming one could avoid heating the liquid itself to any affective extent...)

Shrink Bands - Specialty Bottle

That's the kind of thing MFS seals with originally. Rather than transferring all of my unflavored hi nic to smaller bottles as soon as I first open it, I was hoping it might be sufficient (for awhile anyway) to reseal the original amber glass bottle with one of those; place in the most air tight of ziploc styles (and sure, toss in some oxygen absorbers); probably at least one more layer of air-tightish plastic; then put all in a good tupperware container, in the freezer... Maybe the biggest flaw in that plan would be whatever air got in each time the bottle was open, but presumably I could find a euro dropper cap in that size to replace the original cap with..?

I ask because I've got a few large glass bottles of unflavored by now, and know I'd take a stab at DIY sooner if I didn't have to be prepared and stocked to go the whole nine yards with transfer etc. the second I crack the original seal.

 

[Freedom]

Does anyone think these convenient, inexpensive, blow-dryer applied shrink bands would do much as a main way to help keep air out of glass bottles? (Assuming one could avoid heating the liquid itself to any affective extent...)

Shrink Bands - Specialty Bottle

That's the kind of thing MFS seals with originally. Rather than transferring all of my unflavored hi nic to smaller bottles as soon as I first open it, I was hoping it might be sufficient (for awhile anyway) to reseal the original amber glass bottle with one of those; place in the most air tight of ziploc styles (and sure, toss in some oxygen absorbers); probably at least one more layer of air-tightish plastic; then put all in a good tupperware container, in the freezer... Maybe the biggest flaw in that plan would be whatever air got in each time the bottle was open, but presumably I could find a euro dropper cap in that size to replace the original cap with..?

I ask because I've got a few large glass bottles of unflavored by now, and know I'd take a stab at DIY sooner if I didn't have to be prepared and stocked to go the whole nine yards with transfer etc. the second I crack the original seal.

I really don't think the shrink bands will help you with freshness. We use them for tamper evidence purposes.

 

[miss MiA]

I really don't think the shrink bands will help you with freshness. We use them for tamper evidence purposes.

...well then how about six melted on top of each other?? Ok so in other words, not one person here can get me an exception to the laws of nature, even if it would be really really convenient for me??? Sheesh!!

Guess I'll at least get a proper vacuum sealer (would come in very handy for my small bottles of flavored juice too), and the proper transfer bottles very soon. Thanks!

 

[Kurt]

...well then how about six melted on top of each other?? Ok so in other words, not one person here can get me an exception to the laws of nature, even if it would be really really convenient for me??? Sheesh!!

Guess I'll at least get a proper vacuum sealer (would come in very handy for my small bottles of flavored juice too), and the proper transfer bottles very soon. Thanks!

The amber bottles I get from SpecialtyBottles sort of double seal when the euro is inserted, as it acts somewhat as a gasket for the cap. Its as far as I think one can take it, as these bottles are meant to seal very well. I really doubt O2 is going to seep in at all, however, wrapping each bottle up in a few ziplocks might add whatever additional piece of mind you may want, and definitely does add further protection an accidental break as liquid would be contained.

 

[miss MiA]

Sounds perfect Kurt, thanks! I'm starting to think these large, revered bottles of MFS unflavored just might actually see some action soon!

 

[Kurt]

Rather than vacuum out air, consider using a sealed container and oxygen absorbers along with a dessicant. Often used for food storage, they only absorb oxygen, leaving the now prevalent nitrogen and other trace gases.

Oxygen absorber - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not an unreasonable thought, but I don't see it as being necessary. Nothing is getting in or out of these bottles once they are sealed. And unless you only take from the bottles in an O2-free environment, just using the juice will render the O2 absorber moot. Plus, the O2 absorber, since it is not in contact with the liquid at all, will do nothing for the O2 that is already dissolved in the PG or VG upon bottling by the vendor. This amount, however, is quite low since O2 is not very soluble at all on PG or VG.

Same thing with the desiccant material. In the beginning I thought it would be a good addition, but its going to do nothing about the trace water in the VG or PG in the bottles, and usage of the liquid will not be in a desiccating environment. Besides, for unflavored nic juice, water is not the enemy. It is flavors where water can be a long term problem, and unlike O2, PG and VG hold onto water very tightly, and its unlikely a powdered desiccant would be able to pull it out anyway.

Believe me, I want to preserve my liquid as long and as fresh as possible. But the chemistry of the components tells me that the best approach is simply clean sterile bottles, filled with little headroom, sealed well, and stored dark and cold is about as good as you are going to get.

If the other add-ons, like O2 absorbers and desiccants help you feel better about the storage, go for it. But while it seems on the surface that these are good things, I think they will have virtually zero affect, other than a psychological one. I am, however, a chemist very open to counter arguments, so if someone can prove to me that the glass or gasket/caps are allowing O2 transport into the liquid, even though the bottles I'm using are designed to completely seal a liquid in, I'm all ears.

 

[miss MiA]

Well it seems I somehow keep ordering just a leeeeettle more unflavored... Is it just me? (NO!! ) What do y'all think about these for immediate storage of any bottles that one is not planning to touch at all lest doomsday has set in (or enough time has passed that even given best case scenario shelf-life estimates, one decides to start tapping it to ensure it doesn't go to waste)? *With or without freezer storage also. Geared again towards the inefficient, or overwhelmed, or lazy, etc. who do want to implement a life-extending procedure upon receipt of a new shrink-wrap-sealed-only amber bottle from Chris; but purposely bought an 'excess' amount that they don't anticipate going near for many moons, possibly years.

Note: Kurt, I did see your assessment of oxygen absorbers which do happen to be included with these particular mylar bags. So I guess that component can be disregarded, unless the not-planning-to-use (well, anytime soon) part makes a diff.

*Possible special considerations in my case are residence in an apartment building with an old cooling system that only circulates cold water over pipes, doesn't remove humidity (every bit as comfy as it sounds ); plus apartment will often get pretty warm in summer since AC control consists of On/Off only, and when on, vents aim directly at primary sitting and sleeping areas and blow fiercely enough to instill fear of frostbite if left on for more than a few minutes at a time... In other words, no such thing as a reliably cool or dry area in this small city apartment, so I've been assuming that once summer hits anyway, I really 'must' start keeping unflavored liquid in the freezer. If I used these mylar bags, do you think freezer storage would still be advisable in addition?

 

[Kurt]

miss MiA, the bags you linked will not hurt, but I honestly don't think they are necessary. A proper chemical liquid storage bottle should keep all gases out. The O2 remover would not remove O2 from at sealed bottle anyway. The specialtybottles I mentioned should do quite well, it is what they are designed for. The freezer is for slowing any reactions of ingredients already in the liquid when the bottle was first filled by the vendor, such as trace oxygen. It will also slow any possible bug growth...there are a few bugs that will grow in VG, almost none in PG...

Of course, none of us have long term storage data with high-nic juice, so time will tell, but this all seems like the best approach in chemistry terms.

 

[miss MiA]

Thanks Kurt. As mentioned, yes I'd heard you previously on the oxygen absorbers aspect. The mylar bags I only intended for 'excess/armageddon-only' bottles that I don't plan to touch at all til God knows when -- including for any transfer into other more specialized bottles in the foreseeable future. For an 'intake' procedure if you will, of: Receive bottle from Chris --> Immediately slip into mylar bag --> Iron shut --> (probably put in freezer) --> Fuggetaboutit.

Meanwhile, they'ze heeeere by now, so I may as well go ahead and believe they're helping! And surely they will be, compared to doing nothing with the original bottles besides tupperware/zip-loc 'em up and store in dark (reliably cool & dry not available in my pad unfortunately) and/or freezer. Which is all I meant to be asking about but probably not very clearly!

 

[gerry81611]

The euro-dropper as a dropper insert is not good. However, the insert has a hole in the center perfect for a 17G syringe needle I got from juicyliquid.com:

(Note: you can only buy blunt needles in the US. Hypodermics are perscription only)
I bend the needle enough to be able to access all liquid in the bottle with tilting of the bottle. This setup allows a spill-proof and non-contact way of getting the juice, by syringe)

This thread totally hooked me up when I first started mixing, so I wanted to add something to it.

Disclaimer.. I believe the 80% solution at 20% the cost is to get a graduated cylinder and use eye droppers. I haven't tried this personally, but it should work great.

I like to use a 4 inch pipetting needle so that it easily reaches the bottom of the bottle without too much tilting so i can accurately read the markings on the syringe. After working with a cool company that sent me a bunch of gauges to test out, I found that a 12 gauge 4 inch needle works great for pipetting pure VG and anything less viscous (although the plunger moves fast with the thin stuff so pull carefully).

I found the needles by searching for Pipetting Needles in Google. I can't post the link but the company name is SCI Labaratory Specialties.

They sell in minumum orders of three, and if you call and ask for Rhett he will mix gauges in a three pack if you want.

I have a perhaps unnatural preference for using stainless steel and glass instead of plastic where possible, so I got some glass syringes from Micro Tools (first google hit for micro tools) in the Syringes and Needles section.

I use the 2ml syringe for testing out new recipes in small 1 or 2 cart batches and the 10ml for mixing normal size batches.

This isn't the cheapest solution.. the syringes are $10-$20 a piece and the needles are $25 for 3, but for the amount I mix each day I'm totally satisfied.

Note that since the 12 gauge needle is much larger than the 17 gauge needle Kurt uses, I clipped off the vent tube in the eurodropper insert and use that instead to insert the needle.


Happy mixing!


PS: If anyone wants to post the links for me I'll verify them, or PM me and I'll send them to you. Assuming that I can recieve and reply to PMs before I hit 15 posts.

 

[Kurt]

gerry, that's great! Nice suggestion on the thicker needle, and the safety of the eurodropper blocking spills should still be largely intact. really happy to see a newer user getting hooked up to safely and effectively store and dispense. Syringes make everything better, IMHO.

If those long needles are Luer-lock, please post a link. I'm looking to get a few more syringes, and these could be quite useful. thanks, and vape on!

 

[miss MiA]

If those long needles are Luer-lock, please post a link. I'm looking to get a few more syringes, and these could be quite useful. thanks, and vape on!

gerry, if by the time you see this you still can't post links (i.e. less than 15 posts), FYI you could probably get the necessary parts in by 'manually' breaking the URLs up a bit, e.g. take out the http part; re-do beginning of addy as 'etcetc dot com/' or whatnot. (Hope that's ok in reality, think I've seen ppl do that or similar... and it sounds like 'we' do approve of your info here and all lol! ) Or you could of course run around and make a handful of brief comments to get ya up to 15 (maybe vote in/comment on some polls!); or if you want you could PM me what you'd like posted (tho I do keep swearing I'm gonna get offline one of these... years! ).

 

[gerry81611]

gerry, if by the time you see this you still can't post links (i.e. less than 15 posts), FYI you could probably get the necessary parts in by 'manually' breaking the URLs up a bit, e.g. take out the http part; re-do beginning of addy as 'etcetc dot com/' or whatnot. (Hope that's ok in reality, think I've seen ppl do that or similar... and it sounds like 'we' do approve of your info here and all lol! ) Or you could of course run around and make a handful of brief comments to get ya up to 15 (maybe vote in/comment on some polls!); or if you want you could PM me what you'd like posted (tho I do keep swearing I'm gonna get offline one of these... years! ).

8 garbage posts later

here are the needles:
Pipetting Needles

here are the syringes:
Syringe, Glass 2cc Reusable - Part #: 5004
Syringe, Glass 10cc Reusable - Part #: 5024

and voting in polls doesn't count

as for the luer lock question, yes they are with a qualification. the syringes i have take a luer lock needle, but some of the ones I got from SCI didn't fit. When I looked at them the ones that fit had 4 flat sides on them and the ones that didn't had 2 flat sides. So I called them up and they said just request the squarish ones and they will grind them down to fit. you could also use a file, and if you still get any air bubbles while drawing, try putting some silicon caulk on the mating surfaces and let cure for 24 hours.. that hasn't been a problem for me, but i feel like some of the needles i have fit the syringe better so maybe a little filework would improve the other needles.

 

[sjrily]

awesome info - thanks!!!

 

[Paisley]

1. Ordered 50 mL amber glass bottles with euro-dropper inserts from specialtybottles.com:

You mentioned the plastic leaching into the nic juice, do you freeze the juice with the euro-dropper inserts in the bottle and if so would the Poly-Seal Phenolic Screw Caps be ok to use for freezing? Also, would it be ok to freeze the 60 ml bottles that come with the glass dropper from MFS as is or would it be better to change the cap?

 

[Kurt]

Haven't looked at this thread in a while, so hopefully you will see this. Paisley, good question. I believe the inserts and caps are designed to be able to withstand chemical contact. A plastic dropper bottle is much softer and meant for more temporary use. I have detected no plastic taste from my 100 mg VG stored for almost a year now in the freezer...but then the liquid has almost no mobility when very cold.

So I am assuming the inserts and caps are fine for long term storage. Its dropper bottles that are more of an issue, and even then, some are worse than others. Time will tell, but in 11 months, my liquid is just fine.

 

[BILLB OKC]

A great thread!

I just ordered a couple lurlock 17 ga 10 ml needles, some 30ml glass amber euro dripper bottles.
I am going to order 500ml of 100 mg pg nicotine for the freezer as soon as I figure out who to order from.

Maybe catch a sale and buy some of that "OLD" nicotine.

I ordered enough bottles to start keeping my juice in them also.

I don't want any nicotine leaching (is that spelled right?) out the chemicals in the plastic.

thanks for all the information Kurt. anything new to add?

Bill