Smokers Penalty Fee At Work?

[WCSR]

Unfortunately, this already a common thing. We, as Americans, have let it go too far now. Employers firmly have their foot on our necks now.


The date on this articale is Feb. 2006. That gives you an idea of how long this has been going on. More Employers Charging Smokers Extra for Health Insurance | The Partnership




Mark my words... Obese people will be next.

The U.S. healthcare reform of 2010 allows employers to charge obese patients 30 to 50 percent more if they don't participate in a wellness program, according to Reuters. Obese employees are also less productive than their healthy-weight counterparts because they miss more days of work.

Read more: Obesity Now Costs The US More Than Smoking - Business Insider

 

[htoratsa80]

i wouldnt dare let people know i vape in my office area. too much of a stigma smoking analogs.

 

[beamrider]

^^ Some of us remember being able to walk around anywhere (except MAYBE in a courthouse) and smoke. In your office? In the grocery store? Yep, no problem. There wasn't any stigma attached to it, for the most part, and if asked to put it out, most people had no problems doing so. Of course, according to the Surgeon General, cigarettes are the most evil device on the planet (and I agree with that, up to a certain point), and now our attitudes have been forcibly modified for us, to the point that people are worried about exhaling vapor inside a building. I've only been vaping full time since about May, and I vape everywhere I go. The most grief I've gotten so far is a few strange looks.

And it IS nice to know, that when I go out to eat now, that little Johnny's lungs won't be filling with my secondhand smoke from across the restaurant. He's still drinking Coke made with HFCS, and eating a burger made from a cow injected with steroids most likely, and on the way home he'll be exposed to all that nice fresh D) air, free from petroleum combustion by-products and other pollutants...But he's not breathing secondhand smoke.

Sorry, I really didn't want to rant here, if a mod thinks this needs deleted, I understand.

 

[X P3 Flight Engineer]

This is just to help people realize where the ceiling was and how far it has fallen:

In the seventies, my step-mom was in hospital with lung problems. The Doctor and I stood in the hallway outside her room, both of us smoking a cigarette, as he told me, "If that woman doesn't stop smoking she's going to die".

Also in the seventies, at formal military mess dinners the tables were set so that each group of 4 people had a juice glass filled with complimentary cigarettes (the dinner was taken out of our pay!) placed on the table, with ashtrays, of course. Passenger airlines permitted smoking except during take-off and landing (that's why those useless lights are there, they never go out anymore, but the switch is still there) Lol

All of the above are "hangin' offences" today! And, as this thread proves, the persecution of smokers continues in ever increasing forms today.

 

[NC_Fog]

Ahhh yea...I remember those days of flights gone by. Even in the early to mid 80's, whiskey in one hand and a cigarette in the other.

Marty

 

[sailorman]

That's why it always perturbs me when I hear statements from vapers that sound something like this: "Why do you need to vape in a restaurant? You didn't need to smoke in one" Or, "You wouldn't expect to smoke in a store. Why would you expect to vape in one?".

Invariably, these types of sentiments are made by people who are young enough to be shocked when told, yes, we DID smoke in restaurants and stores. And complaints about it were pretty rare.

I don't respect anyone who objects to vaping because it "looks like smoke". Indoor smoking bans were not imposed at the behest of a groundswell of people who objected to smokers "polluting our air". They were orchestrated by a small group of anti-smoking loudmouths and the organizations that depend on scaring people for their existence. They were based on exaggerated, if not entirely fabricated, health effects regarding secondhand smoke. Now, we even hear about "third hand" smoke and the danger of even occupying a space formerly exposed to cigarette smoke.

Mark my words. Before long, you won't be able to sell a house or car until it's been treated and certified by a special toxic waste disposal company. I will bet anyone here $10 that there has already been legislation drafted by lobbyists for the toxic waste removal industry and their ANTZ allies. It's only a matter of buying enough legislators before it becomes law.

 

[Originalcynn]

I don't know about blood and urinalysis, my employer uses a mouth swab test...

 

[sailorman]

I don't know about blood and urinalysis, my employer uses a mouth swab test...

You mean your "owner".

 

[Debadoo]

And that's the type of attitude that is partly responsible for the country being in the shape it is currently in. Most times, the more you don't think that your rights are being violated, the more suprised you are when you find out that you don't HAVE those rights anymore. If you can't stand up for your rights NOW, when they are being trod on just a little, it's that much easier for the gov't to take them away from you completely, 6 months from now. This is in no way a personal attack on you, you might be right, and some of us are overreacting to the situation. I hope you're right.

this is precisely what I was getting ready to say. I'm not at all criticizing jshat, and I don't know how old he/she is, but so many young people have grown up in a world controlled by big brother and don't think anything of it. Us older folks remember when this type of thing would NOT be tolerated. The enemy doesn't simply march into downtown one day and announce he's taking over, but he will get there by eating the ground out from under you one foot at a time. The vast majority of Americans have become incredibly weak willed and easily manipulated. 30-40 years ago no one would have even considered doing things like this and if they had.......it would have been stopped by the majority outcry immediately.

I really don't want to debate the whole second hand smoke issue, and don't even get me started on 3rd hand smoke..... When I was a kid pretty much everyone smoked. I remember being taken to places like the Eagles club, VFW etc where the smoke was so thick I literally had tears running down my face, and my eyes burned so badly I'd have to go outside periodically. This was every Saturday night. Parent's had friends over to play cards, you walk into the room and you think you're in London with the fog. Closed up car, with 2-3 smokers who don't roll down the windows. This probably wasn't too healthy, but it was normal for me and most everyone I knew. Now, answer me this. Why is it that I think I knew one kid with asthma throughout my entire childhood.......and now (when so many have quit smoking, and don't smoke around kids, in closed up cars etc) at least half the kids you see, if not more, are using breathing treatments, on asthma meds, using MDI's etc. I do realize that we played outside all day, ran, jumped, climbed trees etc rather than sitting in front of the TV playing games. Maybe I'm taking too simplistic a view of this, but it just seems to me that if 2nd hand smoke were 1/2 as bad as they say it is...... most of us older folks would have died before we graduated high school!

And as to an employer charging smokers or any particular group a fine, that is purely scam. If this is any type of business that I could frequent, I'd surely like to know who they are, because as someone else said, I'd quit patronizing their business if I could without totally disrupting my life. It would be hard to be without walmart where I am since we have only one other place to buy groceries.

 

[beamrider]

I think it would be interesting to do a survery. Have 100 people ages 15-25 read Orwells "1984", and see how they all reacted to it. I guarentee it would be different than an age group of say 35-45.

 

[WCSR]

^^ Some of us remember being able to walk around anywhere (except MAYBE in a courthouse) and smoke. In your office? In the grocery store? Yep, no problem. There wasn't any stigma attached to it, for the most part, and if asked to put it out, most people had no problems doing so. Of course, according to the Surgeon General, cigarettes are the most evil device on the planet (and I agree with that, up to a certain point), and now our attitudes have been forcibly modified for us, to the point that people are worried about exhaling vapor inside a building. I've only been vaping full time since about May, and I vape everywhere I go. The most grief I've gotten so far is a few strange looks.

And it IS nice to know, that when I go out to eat now, that little Johnny's lungs won't be filling with my secondhand smoke from across the restaurant. He's still drinking Coke made with HFCS, and eating a burger made from a cow injected with steroids most likely, and on the way home he'll be exposed to all that nice fresh D) air, free from petroleum combustion by-products and other pollutants...But he's not breathing secondhand smoke.

Sorry, I really didn't want to rant here, if a mod thinks this needs deleted, I understand.

Rant on, my friend. Rant on...

I remember when people would smoke in church for Christ's sake (pun intended? ). The only place I remember smoking being frowned upon as a young lad, was at the gas pump.

this is precisely what I was getting ready to say. I'm not at all criticizing jshat, and I don't know how old he/she is, but so many young people have grown up in a world controlled by big brother and don't think anything of it. Us older folks remember when this type of thing would NOT be tolerated. The enemy doesn't simply march into downtown one day and announce he's taking over, but he will get there by eating the ground out from under you one foot at a time. The vast majority of Americans have become incredibly weak willed and easily manipulated. 30-40 years ago no one would have even considered doing things like this and if they had.......it would have been stopped by the majority outcry immediately.

I really don't want to debate the whole second hand smoke issue, and don't even get me started on 3rd hand smoke..... When I was a kid pretty much everyone smoked. I remember being taken to places like the Eagles club, VFW etc where the smoke was so thick I literally had tears running down my face, and my eyes burned so badly I'd have to go outside periodically. This was every Saturday night. Parent's had friends over to play cards, you walk into the room and you think you're in London with the fog. Closed up car, with 2-3 smokers who don't roll down the windows. This probably wasn't too healthy, but it was normal for me and most everyone I knew. Now, answer me this. Why is it that I think I knew one kid with asthma throughout my entire childhood.......and now (when so many have quit smoking, and don't smoke around kids, in closed up cars etc) at least half the kids you see, if not more, are using breathing treatments, on asthma meds, using MDI's etc. I do realize that we played outside all day, ran, jumped, climbed trees etc rather than sitting in front of the TV playing games. Maybe I'm taking too simplistic a view of this, but it just seems to me that if 2nd hand smoke were 1/2 as bad as they say it is...... most of us older folks would have died before we graduated high school!

And as to an employer charging smokers or any particular group a fine, that is purely scam. If this is any type of business that I could frequent, I'd surely like to know who they are, because as someone else said, I'd quit patronizing their business if I could without totally disrupting my life. It would be hard to be without walmart where I am since we have only one other place to buy groceries.

These days, parents are pumping kids full of meds and video games. Nothing will kill a kid like juicing them up with some Adderall and planting them in front of some Halo. But, hey... Let's worry about that second hand smoke that so many others managed to survive 80 years on.

When I was a little tyke, we were forced to go outside. Sure, I had an Atari 2600 and even a Nintendo. But, between building forts, playing tag, climbing trees, riding go-carts/dirt bikes, etc...the video game systems didn't get much use. Even after being subjected to smoke (1st hand, 2nd hand, 3rd hand, and even 17th hand) my entire life, I'm still in better shape in my mid 30's than most of these little sh**s are in their teens. Most of these kids today couldn't hack a 20 mile rugged hike with me.

 

[Debadoo]

I remember my dad smoking at church. Not in the sanctuary of course, but in the fellowship hall after church. There are smokers at my church now and I was one of them until about a month ago, but we'd go outside after church. But dad and others smoked in the fellowship hall.

 

[74deeds]

That is insane, I dont see how they could prove that you smoke....what is the world coming too?

 

[Vapture]

There is no mathematical support for charging smokers extra in this circumstance.

Smokers are at a higher risk for some concerns. ... though that is debatable on a large population in terms of costs incurred. That\s a long argument .. so I will skip it. BUT ... not exercising and not eating well costs a LOT more.

In terms of insurance at work ... most people switch employers every 3-5 yrs. The extra risk, from an insurance perspective, for that period of time, is ZERO. Smoking is a life time risk, not a yearly risk. If the insurance was for life instead of a few years, that's a different story.

All that happening at your company is: a BS story is being used to force smokers to lower insurance payments for non smokers ... and maybe the company.

---

Increasing to $50/mth ??? $600/yr .. Seriously ...

Gezus, people have car insurance for that ... are smokers, sitting at a desk, MORE likely to die, be injured, or require large medical bills ... then DRIVING A CAR ... ??? Seriously???


There are so many things out there, that can get ya, factoring smoking into the equation is pretty silly. Very few people live a lifestyle of extra income, personal trainers, great food, and completely joyous existence. Yeah, for those people, smoking is gonna mess things up ... for the rest of us, we're just happy we can gas up our car without a bank loan or getting shot.

Reality ... for a lot a people, though not me ... trying to live on cheap food, loaded with salt, sugar and fat ... will take you out of the game about 10 times faster then smoking well.

So my company has been charging all smokers $20 a month as a penalty to help with the supposed higher insurance costs incurred by smokers. This has been going on for a couple of years and now we are being told that this is increasing to $50 a month as of Jan 2013. You must be smoke free for 6 months to avoid the penalty. I am guessing they would blood test you to insure that you do not have any nicotine in your system. I will have been vaping for 7 months by then but I dont think I can argue that I am not smoking. Anyone else have that fee at work or thoughts?

 

[Victor Vandyke]

I would expect that you can definitely argue that vaping ins not smoking and I doubt that they would administer a blood test for nicotine anyway. I would just claim not smoking. They would need to prove otherwise.