Snails - Response on Threads Part 4

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Sgt. Pepper

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No, it's mostly because I didn't want to talk about it with someone who is being deliberately annoying and button pushing for his own personal amusement.

However, you seem to insist. There's a LOT of people that now have healthcare who didn't before. ER visits are down too. And that's just the start of it. Long term better health for the country is on the way, particularly if we can keep the "pre-existing condition" crap gone (that the Republican'ts seem to want to insist on).

It's gonna hurt for a while. It's gonna change for a while. But it's gonna happen. And fewer people will be dying in the streets. And THAT is the hallmark of an advanced and civilized society. You know Bear, every other 1st world country out there had it figured out a long time ago. AND...they will get a handle on the cost side too. AND they will improve the bang-for-the-buck (because the USA only has "the best" healthcare if you're a multimillionaire..otherwise, that's a big fat lie compared to the other countries overall).

Remember that the Progressive party was started by Teddy Roosevelt in 1912. It was a CONSERVATIVE idea. And most of the original goals have been achieved by the current "liberals" that have not sold out to special interests like the extreme right-wing nuts. And there's no government-run stuff (other than the VA). It's privatized, but publicly mandated.

Just a little history, with some RED HIGHLIGHTS so you know this stuff is 100 years old and the current Republican'ts are STILL trying to block it.

Platform:

Progressive Party (United States, 1912) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now, I may not agree with all of it, but it IS interesting, yes?
Face it Bear, sour grapes just won't work for long. Get the digs in while you can (although I personally believe we'll all answer for em to a higher power) but in the end, progress trumps stick-in-the-mud every time. It's easy to crack jokes. Easy to be selfish and let people die. It's harder to make it work. That's the more noble attempt though. I hope you are on the side of compassion rather than not. But IDK your exact position.

So yes, Bear, thanks and kudos to the POTUS for putting up with all this crap and getting something rolling, even though it was poison-pilled as much as possible by the extremists. No thanks to the pot-holes-in-the-road-to-better-health Republican'ts (I hate to call them Republicans, the current faction bears little resemblance to the good old days of common sense).

Sorry, Atty, but that's a contradictory statement. You can't be conservative and progressive (as in idealogy) at the same time. Teddy Roosevelt wasn't a conservative. I have spent the last 4-5 years studying the Progressive movement. I don't like getting political on snails, but that's way off base.:)
 

AttyPops

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Historical FACT, pepper. You can't re-write it, sorry.

The Republicans split, and Teddy formed the Progressive movement. Check the history. Hardly "way off base".

You'd be surprised at the conservative-history vs modern-day Republican details. You should dig in.

So yes, it was a Republican party group that split off. Conservative was probably an improper word on my part because of modern mis-context of the term. When I think of "conservative" in the USA context, I think of fiscal responsibility (including limited defense budgets to defensive things) and not overly growing government. That's not to say it can't grow, but let things be privatized where practical. Like Obamacare did. ;) That's not to say the government can't mandate. Ahem. The truly liberal agenda would be for the government to take it all over.
 

Sgt. Pepper

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Historical FACT, pepper. You can't re-write it, sorry.

The Republicans split, and Teddy formed the Progressive movement. Check the history. Hardly "way off base".

You'd be surprised at the conservative-history vs modern-day Republican details. You should dig in.

So yes, it was a Republican party group that split off. Conservative was probably an improper word on my part because of modern mis-context of the term. When I think of "conservative" in the USA context, I think of fiscal responsibility (including limited defense budgets to defensive things) and not overly growing government. That's not to say it can't grow, but let things be privatized where practical. Like Obamacare did. ;) That's not to say the government can't mandate. Ahem. The truly liberal agenda would be for the government to take it all over.

Believe me, I have dug in. The entire purpose of obamacare was not to insure people but to destroy the private market to give government complete control over healthcare.

I have checked the history and spent almost 5 years doing so. Progressivism doesn't mean the Democratic Party, both parties sold out. The Progressive movement came out of the U.K and the London School of Economics. They are know there as Fabian Socialists... we just happen to call it progressivism here. The progressive movement was so discredited after the Woodrow Wilson Administration (the most evil president that has ever held the office, but someone else is vying for that spot) that they went underground for years. They re-emerged as "liberals." A name they stole from libertarians. Liberalism has a negative connotation with many Americans and now they have made a full circle back to progressive.:)
 
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tiburonfirst

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and it's time!

goodnight and sweet dreams
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