So - are we getting it or are we not - nicotine
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Yeah, it's a bummer. I'd appreciate a PM from you if you get a response from Kin. I figured out we can re-create the process by sifting through this thread and the MAOI thread because those posts have not been deleted, but it would sure take a long time and whenever they get into the chemistry I become hopelessly lost.
No need to worry about conspiracies. The reasons these threads have gone quiet are much less interesting than you imagine. The knowledge has not been lost.
Are you lamenting the lack of activity because you want the ability to make your own WTA ("just in case"), or because you would actually be making and using your own WTA now if you had one of the "recipes" ???
The question is relevant, because these threads are driven by vapers experimenting and sharing their feedback so that the knowledge continues to advance.
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Hey Tescela. I'm sure most of us would be using it immediately if we had the recipe. I myself have been trying to quit for twenty-eight years and the WTA seems like the last hope. I'm one of those onlookers who doesn't have much to contribute so I just stayed glued to the posting for months like a vulture waiting for a DIY breakthrough to finally get off the hook. As far as the reasons for the threads becoming quiet, you're probably right about there being no need for suspicion.
Either that or you actually work for the MIB! Hmmm. Who are you really Tescela?
Either that or you actually work for the MIB! Hmmm. Who are you really Tescela?
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In answer to your question, Tescela, yes to both. I want the recipe "just in case" FOR SURE. As to making my own right now, it would depend on how much spare time I have (usually none since I have 2 jobs and have been remodeling my house too). From what I had read to date, the systems seemed complex, the process not yet finalized, and results unclear. For those reasons, and my own lack of spare time, I just watched and waited. My hope was that an easy way would be reached, then that easy way would be described, then I would copy that down and have it in my back pocket if needed. If I had some time, I'd try making some. If it was my ONLY source of MAOI's outside of Big T or Big PH, I'd manage to FIND the time, because if I didn't I'd certainly go back to smoking. Vaping alone for me is a recipe for major mental instability. I'm coping with Swedish snus. Should that become unavailable, I'd be in a world of hurt.
If you are implying that readers "should" be actively participating in experimentation and if not then they "shouldn't" get to share in the discoveries, I say hogwash. I don't even have a kitchen--that's what I've been trying to get in my "spare time."
I hope that answers your question. What I don't understand is why my answers are relevant to others or affect the actions of other interested parties or experimenters.
If you are implying that readers "should" be actively participating in experimentation and if not then they "shouldn't" get to share in the discoveries, I say hogwash. I don't even have a kitchen--that's what I've been trying to get in my "spare time."
I hope that answers your question. What I don't understand is why my answers are relevant to others or affect the actions of other interested parties or experimenters.
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I added a drop of passionflower to my mix and was able to hold the cigarette cravings for my 12 hour airline flight. Aside from the ........ like taste and mildly sedative effect, I was quite impressed. However I've found out about another herb with MAOIs called Tribulus. From what I've gathered it has just about the same betacarb profile as tobacco. Much more so than passionflower or any other alternatives I've checked out.
Tobacco contains harmala, harmine, and harmalol. Tribulus is the only other herb I've found that contains all three of them. Indians who smoked the plant referred to it as "Bear Tobacco". That says a lot! If this isn't the closest thing to the real thing, I don't know what is. It's definitely a safe Maoi to freebase. Currently, it's being marketed as a testosterone booster, known for treatment of menopause and used as a popular Ayurvedic remedy. As soon as i get my hands on a tincture, I'll let you know of it's effectiveness as an addition to e-liquid.
Chances are, this very well could null and void the whole quest for WTA. Let's keep our fingers crossed.
Tobacco contains harmala, harmine, and harmalol. Tribulus is the only other herb I've found that contains all three of them. Indians who smoked the plant referred to it as "Bear Tobacco". That says a lot! If this isn't the closest thing to the real thing, I don't know what is. It's definitely a safe Maoi to freebase. Currently, it's being marketed as a testosterone booster, known for treatment of menopause and used as a popular Ayurvedic remedy. As soon as i get my hands on a tincture, I'll let you know of it's effectiveness as an addition to e-liquid.
Chances are, this very well could null and void the whole quest for WTA. Let's keep our fingers crossed.
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Trog:
It's been my experience since I began smoking in my early to pre-teens that whenever I get upset or outright ...... off, I tend to smoke a lot more to calm my nerves (and often prevent me from going off on whomever was at the opposite end that managed to piss me off). Analogue cigarettes handled that very well and likely prevented me from taking a life when I hit that point where I was beyond ...... off.
What I've noticed and how I learned to gauge the amount of nicotine I need in my system is totally based on my moods and time of day. I keep two separate e-liquid bottles with me at all times. Mine are marked with Braille bump Dots because I don't add labels on the bottles as they manage to come off anyhow as do permanent marker, even if I could read the print.
The heavier nic dose liquid is what I use 1st thing in the morning to calm the morning cravings. I also use this higher dose when I'm under a great deal of stress or if I'm outright ...... off; however, when the rest of the day is rather smooth sailing, so to speak, I'm good to go with the lower dose of e-liquid nicotine.
I vape the lower dose of 20-24mg of nicotine throughout most of the day with exception of waking up and going to bed (though I rarely if ever sleep anyhow); however, upon waking or getting out of bed in the morning (off the couch - just can't handle that brick of a mattress DH enjoys and I can't tolerate that Fred Flintstone snoring thing he's got going on that probably lifts the roof several feet then sets it down again. I'm surprised we don't have drywall dust all over the room... ). I sleep in the living room on the couch with soft cushions where I can also prop my hed well at an angle on the arm rest so it works out perfectly. I can breath from the allergies and rest at least as much as possible without sharing the room with the man I'm married to who snores horribly while having access to the arm-rest on the couch to help with my allergies when I can actually rest with my head propped up enough so I can breath better it's all good all the way around. If I can't breath, if my joints are in such pain I can't move without taking breakthrough pain medicines on top of daily chronic pain medication (patch form for everyday medication; pill form for breakthrough when patch can't cover the pain completely), heads will roll somewhere.
But the fact that the higher nic doses takes care of my heavy cravings where as the regular cravings handles well with my regualr doses at 20mg- to 24mg.
That's why I keep extra nicotine liquid in the house to increase my e-liquid as needed.
It's been my experience since I began smoking in my early to pre-teens that whenever I get upset or outright ...... off, I tend to smoke a lot more to calm my nerves (and often prevent me from going off on whomever was at the opposite end that managed to piss me off). Analogue cigarettes handled that very well and likely prevented me from taking a life when I hit that point where I was beyond ...... off.
What I've noticed and how I learned to gauge the amount of nicotine I need in my system is totally based on my moods and time of day. I keep two separate e-liquid bottles with me at all times. Mine are marked with Braille bump Dots because I don't add labels on the bottles as they manage to come off anyhow as do permanent marker, even if I could read the print.
The heavier nic dose liquid is what I use 1st thing in the morning to calm the morning cravings. I also use this higher dose when I'm under a great deal of stress or if I'm outright ...... off; however, when the rest of the day is rather smooth sailing, so to speak, I'm good to go with the lower dose of e-liquid nicotine.
I vape the lower dose of 20-24mg of nicotine throughout most of the day with exception of waking up and going to bed (though I rarely if ever sleep anyhow); however, upon waking or getting out of bed in the morning (off the couch - just can't handle that brick of a mattress DH enjoys and I can't tolerate that Fred Flintstone snoring thing he's got going on that probably lifts the roof several feet then sets it down again. I'm surprised we don't have drywall dust all over the room...
). I sleep in the living room on the couch with soft cushions where I can also prop my hed well at an angle on the arm rest so it works out perfectly. I can breath from the allergies and rest at least as much as possible without sharing the room with the man I'm married to who snores horribly while having access to the arm-rest on the couch to help with my allergies when I can actually rest with my head propped up enough so I can breath better it's all good all the way around. If I can't breath, if my joints are in such pain I can't move without taking breakthrough pain medicines on top of daily chronic pain medication (patch form for everyday medication; pill form for breakthrough when patch can't cover the pain completely), heads will roll somewhere. But the fact that the higher nic doses takes care of my heavy cravings where as the regular cravings handles well with my regualr doses at 20mg- to 24mg.
That's why I keep extra nicotine liquid in the house to increase my e-liquid as needed.
From what I remember from my high school chemistry classes, alkaloid extraction is actually a very simple process... unfortunately, it uses chemicals like chloroform, ether, and acetone which are extremely hazardous to your health. I'd think that the process of extracting the alkaloids (Especially if you actually WANT all the alkaloids, instead of just a specific one like nicotine!) would be a heck of a lot simpler than actually purifying the end result.
I popped in one day, saw him requesting deletion and didn't understand why, so I saved the thread as HTML. Am I allowed to upload/link to a thread after it was deleted? IDK and I am headed back to bed now, but the info isn't lost. I think you are right though that it is just mainly the same stuff as in the huge thread. I can give you a summary of it either way.
I think people ought to be extra careful extracting non-tobacco stuff like tribulus terrestris. Google "tribulus MAOI" and read a few of the links.The plant mentioned in the ayahuasca material seems to be way stronger than in research reports because of the difference in dosage. If you see an extract of that bear tobacco stuff I would avoid it unless you really know what it is:
Well, this thread clearly continues to fascinate - and although it has been one heck of a long time since I contributed here a couple of things seem to have come up recently which have given me the necessary 'push'.
First up: I'm really not sure why folk seem to feel so cheated by the fact that DVap's WTA extraction method is not publicly available. Mydnight's recent post regarding the use of some pretty nasty solvents only hints at some of the problems - you need to be able to remove these solvents again with expert precision before there's any chance of the resulting product being at all 'safe' (as in not actively dangerous) to vape, or in fact consume by any method.
BCB freely admitted "whenever they get into the chemistry I become hopelessly lost" despite apparently being keen to have access to the details. Please believe this is NOT intended as a criticism, but everything I've read to date about DVap's methods left me feeling that his version of WTA just simply isn't something that even the most determined enthusiast would have the expertise, equipment and materials needed to produce safely. I really wish it were otherwise, too!
I still haven't even plucked up the courage to try out Virk's water extraction method described at post #2516, which would seem the logical place for the unqualified (like me) to start our own experiments. If I've missed reports from others trying this one out, please forgive me; ECF's just so darn huge these days!
The other area which is causing me some very real concern is related to attempts to nail down alternative sources of these magical MAOIs which some of us, and I am including myself here, seem to miss so very much.
To put this into context, I suspect I fall into DVap's Group 3 quartile of those who were not only dependent on nicotine but also those (now missing) MAOIs. Don't get me wrong, I'm still incredibly pleased that I've managed to stay tobacco-free by changing to vaping; this has made a huge difference to me. However, I've also rather unfortunately been battling depression for better than half of my life. I'd been aware since first hearing about MAOIs in tobacco smoke (late 1990's?) that there was a better-than-even chance that one of the reasons I'd always failed in my attempts to quit smoking was that I'd been self-medicating with tobacco - I'd even tried to justify my failure in just those terms.
The medications I'm currently taking are actually working a little better than most I've been prescribed over the years, but I still miss what I'm not getting from e-cigs and would dearly love to get that back again without having to resort to burning tobacco. I tried snus a few years ago prior to discovering e-cigs and didn't get on with it at all. My vaping can vary enormously from one day to the next, as I sometimes feel pretty stable despite not vaping very much at all but on other days just cannot seem to stop more or less compulsively dragging and dragging on my e-cigs. Hiking the nicotine strength doesn't always put a stop to that, and can lead to the start of overdose effects which are basically pretty counter-productive.
Getting back to my point, my history does mean I've had rather more experience of having my brain chemistry messed with than many people by the various pharmaceuticals that I've been exposed to over the years, which in some cases I certainly wish I hadn't. Trying to get it through to a medic that being turned into a suicidal zombie does not constitute an improvement when you feel as if you can barely string a sentence together is not easy! There's an unpleasant likelihood they will suggest that you should try taking it for longer in order to "see the benefits"... and this at a time when you barely have the confidence to make a decision whether to stand up or sit down...
I am just rather worried that experimenting with other plant-based psychoactive alkaloids found in the likes of Passionflower, Syrian Rue and now Tribulus carries some quite considerable risks. It does tend to put vapers rather over the border into 'alternative' territory where the information it is possible to locate is not necessarily the most accurate... to put it politely.
I also Googled Tribulus and found various contradictory things being said about it, many in what appeared to be fairly authoritative fashion - including the possibility of being supplied with something that wasn't actually Tribulus at all! Given it's apparent status as 'aphrodisiac' or 'male performance enhancer' the price certainly varies one heck of a lot. Having been used in Chinese medicine for thousands of years isn't necessarily a recommendation either - think tiger bones? And as for dosage...
If you believe the hype for some of the herbal supplements currently available you can convince yourself that they can cure just about everything - being so pure and natural and all. Yeah, sure; but they CAN also be seriously toxic, also cause horrendous unwanted side-effects and particularly when it is your brain chemistry you're proposing to muck around with, cause very real and potentially dangerous (even lethal) drug interactions.
I really, really don't want to pop Barney's balloon, he may just have hit on something brilliant; but by the same token I don't want to see anyone getting hurt either. Assuming he is male I don't imagine he would be too worried about claimed abortifacient effects (likely to cause miscarriage) found here: Tribulus terrestris - Arasi Lawrence Company but I'd feel much more comfortable if his statement about "just about the same betacarb profile as tobacco" had been accompanied by a link to where he came across such precise information - even more so to his assertion that "It's definitely a safe Maoi to freebase", though I'll confess I'm not entirely sure what he means by that.
I'd like to reiterate none of this is intended to be a criticism of anyone's sense of adventure or determination; but like Aprioristic I am kind of concerned about someone coming really badly unstuck from bad or misleading information.
So I'm going to paraphrase the old carpenter's phrase about 'measure twice, cut once'. Research at least twice as much as you think you need to before sinking your hard-earned money into this. If you find something that makes you pause and rethink the wisdom of going ahead, there's no shame in this whatsoever - and it is definitely better than making an error that puts you in hospital!
First up: I'm really not sure why folk seem to feel so cheated by the fact that DVap's WTA extraction method is not publicly available. Mydnight's recent post regarding the use of some pretty nasty solvents only hints at some of the problems - you need to be able to remove these solvents again with expert precision before there's any chance of the resulting product being at all 'safe' (as in not actively dangerous) to vape, or in fact consume by any method.
BCB freely admitted "whenever they get into the chemistry I become hopelessly lost" despite apparently being keen to have access to the details. Please believe this is NOT intended as a criticism, but everything I've read to date about DVap's methods left me feeling that his version of WTA just simply isn't something that even the most determined enthusiast would have the expertise, equipment and materials needed to produce safely. I really wish it were otherwise, too!
I still haven't even plucked up the courage to try out Virk's water extraction method described at post #2516, which would seem the logical place for the unqualified (like me) to start our own experiments. If I've missed reports from others trying this one out, please forgive me; ECF's just so darn huge these days!
The other area which is causing me some very real concern is related to attempts to nail down alternative sources of these magical MAOIs which some of us, and I am including myself here, seem to miss so very much.
To put this into context, I suspect I fall into DVap's Group 3 quartile of those who were not only dependent on nicotine but also those (now missing) MAOIs. Don't get me wrong, I'm still incredibly pleased that I've managed to stay tobacco-free by changing to vaping; this has made a huge difference to me. However, I've also rather unfortunately been battling depression for better than half of my life. I'd been aware since first hearing about MAOIs in tobacco smoke (late 1990's?) that there was a better-than-even chance that one of the reasons I'd always failed in my attempts to quit smoking was that I'd been self-medicating with tobacco - I'd even tried to justify my failure in just those terms.
The medications I'm currently taking are actually working a little better than most I've been prescribed over the years, but I still miss what I'm not getting from e-cigs and would dearly love to get that back again without having to resort to burning tobacco. I tried snus a few years ago prior to discovering e-cigs and didn't get on with it at all. My vaping can vary enormously from one day to the next, as I sometimes feel pretty stable despite not vaping very much at all but on other days just cannot seem to stop more or less compulsively dragging and dragging on my e-cigs. Hiking the nicotine strength doesn't always put a stop to that, and can lead to the start of overdose effects which are basically pretty counter-productive.
Getting back to my point, my history does mean I've had rather more experience of having my brain chemistry messed with than many people by the various pharmaceuticals that I've been exposed to over the years, which in some cases I certainly wish I hadn't. Trying to get it through to a medic that being turned into a suicidal zombie does not constitute an improvement when you feel as if you can barely string a sentence together is not easy! There's an unpleasant likelihood they will suggest that you should try taking it for longer in order to "see the benefits"... and this at a time when you barely have the confidence to make a decision whether to stand up or sit down...
I am just rather worried that experimenting with other plant-based psychoactive alkaloids found in the likes of Passionflower, Syrian Rue and now Tribulus carries some quite considerable risks. It does tend to put vapers rather over the border into 'alternative' territory where the information it is possible to locate is not necessarily the most accurate... to put it politely.
I also Googled Tribulus and found various contradictory things being said about it, many in what appeared to be fairly authoritative fashion - including the possibility of being supplied with something that wasn't actually Tribulus at all! Given it's apparent status as 'aphrodisiac' or 'male performance enhancer' the price certainly varies one heck of a lot. Having been used in Chinese medicine for thousands of years isn't necessarily a recommendation either - think tiger bones? And as for dosage...
If you believe the hype for some of the herbal supplements currently available you can convince yourself that they can cure just about everything - being so pure and natural and all. Yeah, sure; but they CAN also be seriously toxic, also cause horrendous unwanted side-effects and particularly when it is your brain chemistry you're proposing to muck around with, cause very real and potentially dangerous (even lethal) drug interactions.
I really, really don't want to pop Barney's balloon, he may just have hit on something brilliant; but by the same token I don't want to see anyone getting hurt either. Assuming he is male I don't imagine he would be too worried about claimed abortifacient effects (likely to cause miscarriage) found here: Tribulus terrestris - Arasi Lawrence Company but I'd feel much more comfortable if his statement about "just about the same betacarb profile as tobacco" had been accompanied by a link to where he came across such precise information - even more so to his assertion that "It's definitely a safe Maoi to freebase", though I'll confess I'm not entirely sure what he means by that.
I'd like to reiterate none of this is intended to be a criticism of anyone's sense of adventure or determination; but like Aprioristic I am kind of concerned about someone coming really badly unstuck from bad or misleading information.
So I'm going to paraphrase the old carpenter's phrase about 'measure twice, cut once'. Research at least twice as much as you think you need to before sinking your hard-earned money into this. If you find something that makes you pause and rethink the wisdom of going ahead, there's no shame in this whatsoever - and it is definitely better than making an error that puts you in hospital!
I agree with everything you said, Tetsab. I wasn't ever expecting Dvap's recipe, nor would I want him to give it out, simply because I'd worry that someone who was as inept as I might try it. We were talking about Kinabaloo's recipe which was a "kitchen" version with out potential harm to the "cook." This "kitchen" recipe, although not as wonderful or potent as the real deal, would give us some of the MAOI's from tobacco, which would help those of us in the 3rd Quartile. I think people are still working on it and someday we'll have it. Many of us were hoping that Kin's recipe would work for us, but I don't know if it even works for him.
I also believe that whatever percentages of "this" or "that" in tobacco has proven to be effective for us, so I wouldn't want to try to come up with some experimental synthetic combo from other herbs or whatever. I would just want what is in tobacco, because that's a good mix.
I also believe that whatever percentages of "this" or "that" in tobacco has proven to be effective for us, so I wouldn't want to try to come up with some experimental synthetic combo from other herbs or whatever. I would just want what is in tobacco, because that's a good mix.
Here's one of the links: Natural antidepressant remedies. Look to the bottom of the page for vegetal MOAIs.
In addition to that, here's what E-cigarette forum member grim_piper posted on 6-08-2010 regarding his passionflower sojourn......
"So in my promise to keep you updated here goes:
No adverse health reactions after two weeks.
I'm using about a drop per milliliter when the oral dosage on the bottle is 20-30 drops, thrice daily, so it's not a particularly high dosage.
I've eaten liver, fava beans and nice chianti with no headache etc, so at this dosage the effect of an MAOI-b and a regular diet doesn't seem to effect me.
No increased sun sensitivity.
My blood pressure is lower than when I started(107/65 on average) and the shortness of breath I had experienced before is greatly reduced. I'm wondering if those were more due to anxiety than overdone nicotine and PG.
I vape less and do not freak out if my e-cig is not at hand.
My cravings for analogs are practically nil and my mood is better.
I had two drags off a friend's cigarette about a week ago and handed it back with no desire to continue.
My only complaint is that the tincture I'm using seems to leave a residue on the cartomizer and has to be washed out more often.
So, for me, this seems to be working. I do not recommend it for others without severe caution to take it slow and monitor any possible adverse reactions. Read up all you can on harmine and related alkaloids as much as you can before you try any experiments."
I followed his lead with the passionflower mixture of one drop per twenty to thirty drops with e-liquid and got similar results. According to the above link, passionflower contains Quercetin as the principle whereas tribulus's principle is from the same as that of tobacco! ( Harmala / Harmine / harmalol )!! With the success I've had with passionflower, I'd have to be crazy not to give this one a try. I appreciate Tetsab and Tescela's prudence in this matter for everyone concerned, and I too am a little weary of possibly freebasing a steroid (although Native Americans seemed to do okay with it), but if people have been taking spoonfuls of the stuff forever, then how could one tiny drop in a mixture of twenty for a whole day be so dangerous not to mention that the drop is at least fifty percent diluted?
With that said I highly doubt I'll end up in the morgue as a stiff with a stiffy. We'll just have to wait and see I guess.
In addition to that, here's what E-cigarette forum member grim_piper posted on 6-08-2010 regarding his passionflower sojourn......
"So in my promise to keep you updated here goes:
No adverse health reactions after two weeks.
I'm using about a drop per milliliter when the oral dosage on the bottle is 20-30 drops, thrice daily, so it's not a particularly high dosage.
I've eaten liver, fava beans and nice chianti with no headache etc, so at this dosage the effect of an MAOI-b and a regular diet doesn't seem to effect me.
No increased sun sensitivity.
My blood pressure is lower than when I started(107/65 on average) and the shortness of breath I had experienced before is greatly reduced. I'm wondering if those were more due to anxiety than overdone nicotine and PG.
I vape less and do not freak out if my e-cig is not at hand.
My cravings for analogs are practically nil and my mood is better.
I had two drags off a friend's cigarette about a week ago and handed it back with no desire to continue.
My only complaint is that the tincture I'm using seems to leave a residue on the cartomizer and has to be washed out more often.
So, for me, this seems to be working. I do not recommend it for others without severe caution to take it slow and monitor any possible adverse reactions. Read up all you can on harmine and related alkaloids as much as you can before you try any experiments."
I followed his lead with the passionflower mixture of one drop per twenty to thirty drops with e-liquid and got similar results. According to the above link, passionflower contains Quercetin as the principle whereas tribulus's principle is from the same as that of tobacco! ( Harmala / Harmine / harmalol )!! With the success I've had with passionflower, I'd have to be crazy not to give this one a try. I appreciate Tetsab and Tescela's prudence in this matter for everyone concerned, and I too am a little weary of possibly freebasing a steroid (although Native Americans seemed to do okay with it), but if people have been taking spoonfuls of the stuff forever, then how could one tiny drop in a mixture of twenty for a whole day be so dangerous not to mention that the drop is at least fifty percent diluted?
With that said I highly doubt I'll end up in the morgue as a stiff with a stiffy. We'll just have to wait and see I guess.
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5-HTP is something you have to be careful about the intereaction of MAOI's with. I've taken it on and off, more off for a while, but I don't really have problems with needing alkaloids/depression or whatever. Maybe 5-HTP would work for some people, I really don't know, but I wouldn't think it is a WTA substitute.
I'd still advise people to be very careful with that tribulus or passionflower extracts. I'd think a lot of time you don't really know the strength of whatever is in it. With WTA & nicotine people seem to self-regulate their dosing. With whatever designer extracts, I would start small and be careful.
BCB, do you want kina's kitchen method? It's probably not a big deal to post it, I just don't understand his motivation in taking it down, if there was something wrong about it or what.
Thanks for the recipe offer. I already got it from someone. Not sure if it even works anyway. But it's nice to have a copy if only for comparison purposes.
A bit late on the reply here, but naw, I've neither been bought off nor whacked, nor even whacked off, though I guess I could try that if I got bored...
I've just become a bit burned-out on the whole set of issues surrounding WTA. It doesn't take too much observational skill for an observer to realize that going back and forth with Kin is something that's often tough on me. I find him impatient and perhaps a bit pushy, and I'm sure he finds my slower more plodding approach pig-headed and maddening.
Not to say that an impatient/pushy approach doesn't have it's place, but it's not my cup. Perhaps we're just not meant to be in the same place at the same time.
I just had to get away and clear my head of everything, thus my being "On vacation".
Dvap, I was wondering where you had been. I still watch this thread but don't post often. Hopefully all is going well with you. That's too bad about not getting whacked. It might help you relax more. At least that's what I've been told.
It might help you relax more. At least that's what I've been told.
Have you had a chance to try the tribulus yet? I'm looking at ordering it now.
I haven't been to the forums in a long time because I just gave up vaping and went back to smoking. Vaping just isn't the same and I'm pretty sure it has to do with the MAOIs. I thought I would try it again (ordered an EGO), but I know I'm going to have to have some MAOIs in some form or I can't do it.
I actually just may put a couple of drops under my tongue and then start vaping. That way it won't make my flavors taste bad.
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