Ah, kin, you seen it too? Either I'm not really as crazy as I thought or this is mass hysteria. 8-o
So - are we getting it or are we not - nicotine
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Now that all the observations are back in from the WTA trial 2 I just wanted to throw out that I was the guinea vaper with the least amount of satisfaction from using the WTA. My daily observations are the ones from this post:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...we-getting-we-not-nicotine-82.html#post764352
Now that I'm a couple of days into my "normal" routine of 36mg and snus all is right with the world. As well as ever for me at least.
My primary objections with the WTA were to do with taste and I think nic level. I believe I cited this in my log, the whole spectrum alkaloids present may well be what kept the sense of urgency out of the cravings I experienced. Much in the way that the snus seems to do.
So what were the cravings about? I'm thinking the amount of nicotine I was getting.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...we-getting-we-not-nicotine-82.html#post764352
Now that I'm a couple of days into my "normal" routine of 36mg and snus all is right with the world. As well as ever for me at least.
My primary objections with the WTA were to do with taste and I think nic level. I believe I cited this in my log, the whole spectrum alkaloids present may well be what kept the sense of urgency out of the cravings I experienced. Much in the way that the snus seems to do.
So what were the cravings about? I'm thinking the amount of nicotine I was getting.
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OTD,
A more tailored approach would have been to fit the WTA level to the individuals based on all the empirical mumbo-jumbo I've been spouting.
I agree with you on the taste. While the others either liked it right off or had it grow on them, I didn't like it at the beginning and I didn't like it any more over time. Both non-pipe tobacco sources I have used do not display the aftertaste of the pipe-tobacco sourced WTA liquid.
A more tailored approach would have been to fit the WTA level to the individuals based on all the empirical mumbo-jumbo I've been spouting.
I agree with you on the taste. While the others either liked it right off or had it grow on them, I didn't like it at the beginning and I didn't like it any more over time. Both non-pipe tobacco sources I have used do not display the aftertaste of the pipe-tobacco sourced WTA liquid.
And add a lot of Chocolate flavoring!
Completely off topic, but 2 points:
1) I miss the DVaps Law in your sig
2) Caught wind of impending nuptials so this is probably late in the offering but here ya go any ways. I was told this as a young man, ignored it, wished I hadn't.
Marriage is highly overrated. Better to stay single and keep dogs.
With that I must walk away from this computer now as I'm getting the stink-eye from my wife!
No apologies needed, Vaporer. I feels good to shed the Lone Ranger mask.....But I'm keeping the secret decoder ring....
I didn't think so. Been arguing with the voices in my head all day. Wait 'till I tell 'em what you said.
The notion that there is not one perfect WTA mix for all smokers is correct. Cigarettes, as Vaporer noted, offer a wide variety of choices in strength, taste, etc. We try them and settle on one suited for our wants and needs. If e-liquid is declared a drug, then why would we expect it to be treated any differently than any other drug -- prescribed and tailored to meet an individual's needs.
We differ in tolerance and dependence.
On this forum are posts from seemingly sincere people who think 18mg is too strong, from folks who claim to have overdosed on liquids of that strength. I laugh. But something got to them!
One of my problems that I guess I didn't state strongly enough is how much I enjoy the nicotine alternatives I use. I am particularly fond of snus and Stonewall (nasal snuff does nothing for me except smell good and clear out my sinuses). But snus mellows me out, normalizes me -- and can overdose me. I overdosed last night, and essentially passed out in bed.
I had been using the WTA all day, heavily in the evening while watching Texas-Texas A&M, and then followed a mild snus with a strong one. Whoa. It got so bad I couldn't lift my head. So I just went to sleep, dizzy.
What I have been missing ever since I quit cigarettes is the feeling that "this is enough, this is good, I am satisfied now." No one thing or combination of things provides that feeling and certain knowledge. So I keep using things. And never get the end result I got from smoking a cigarette.
If we replicate the cigarette experience with WTA, we will have achieved e-smoking's Holy Grail. No tars. No carbon monixide. No carcinogens in amounts to worry about. Just a drug with benefits we want and effects we need, along with a normalization of brain chemical production.
That's what I'm after. That's what I'm hoping dVap's liquid can provide.
We differ in tolerance and dependence.
On this forum are posts from seemingly sincere people who think 18mg is too strong, from folks who claim to have overdosed on liquids of that strength. I laugh. But something got to them!
One of my problems that I guess I didn't state strongly enough is how much I enjoy the nicotine alternatives I use. I am particularly fond of snus and Stonewall (nasal snuff does nothing for me except smell good and clear out my sinuses). But snus mellows me out, normalizes me -- and can overdose me. I overdosed last night, and essentially passed out in bed.
I had been using the WTA all day, heavily in the evening while watching Texas-Texas A&M, and then followed a mild snus with a strong one. Whoa. It got so bad I couldn't lift my head. So I just went to sleep, dizzy.
What I have been missing ever since I quit cigarettes is the feeling that "this is enough, this is good, I am satisfied now." No one thing or combination of things provides that feeling and certain knowledge. So I keep using things. And never get the end result I got from smoking a cigarette.
If we replicate the cigarette experience with WTA, we will have achieved e-smoking's Holy Grail. No tars. No carbon monixide. No carcinogens in amounts to worry about. Just a drug with benefits we want and effects we need, along with a normalization of brain chemical production.
That's what I'm after. That's what I'm hoping dVap's liquid can provide.
TropicalBob, Thanks again for your information. "I am particularly fond of snus and Stonewall (nasal snuff does nothing for me except smell good and clear out my sinuses)."
I'm just sitting here thinking, since I've already added snus to my daily routine. Now I want to try Stonewall and I'm putting that on my Christmas list(s)....sounds interesting and I see it's low in TSNAs.
Hope I do don't a thread drift, but is it as satisfying as snus for 'what's missing' that I've ran into, also?
Happy Thanksgiving!
I'm just sitting here thinking, since I've already added snus to my daily routine. Now I want to try Stonewall and I'm putting that on my Christmas list(s)....sounds interesting and I see it's low in TSNAs.
Hope I do don't a thread drift, but is it as satisfying as snus for 'what's missing' that I've ran into, also?
Happy Thanksgiving!
Just to show different peoples needs, I do much better with a morning vape, a snus(early) and use that during the day. If I dont use the snus in the morning, I vape a lot more. About 2x as much. I'll leave the snus in for maybe 2hrs forgetting it and only vaping now and then. I've tried the Stonewall and they taste fine, but do nothing for my craving/satisfaction most of the time. They are handy when someplace for a long time I cant vape.
So I'm now using 4-5 good Swedish snus during the day and vaping as I feel the need.
This works fine for me. Other than I can get the hiccups real quick with Stonewall if I've been vaping regular(to much nic). On occasion, the nasal snuff is satisfying as the snus is.
I see myself as WTA low more than nic low on the importance scale.
I'm sure that won't work for everyone. Many get the itch that the WTA, snus or nasal snuff is ok, but they see a big diff when hitting the stronger nic or a Stonewall.
Some will need both.
It's just a matter of finding what is satifying your urges, one step at a time, to make your tool kit tailored to your needs.
So I'm now using 4-5 good Swedish snus during the day and vaping as I feel the need.
This works fine for me. Other than I can get the hiccups real quick with Stonewall if I've been vaping regular(to much nic). On occasion, the nasal snuff is satisfying as the snus is.
I see myself as WTA low more than nic low on the importance scale.
I'm sure that won't work for everyone. Many get the itch that the WTA, snus or nasal snuff is ok, but they see a big diff when hitting the stronger nic or a Stonewall.
Some will need both.
It's just a matter of finding what is satifying your urges, one step at a time, to make your tool kit tailored to your needs.
I may have fared better if the nic level had been higher in the 2nd batch
That in itself has me confused. During the 5 days I was using the WTA I continued to have cravings, though they were muted. Urgent need was not there but cravings all the same.
It's now been 4 days since resuming my regimen of 36mg and snus. My liquid consumption is back to 1 to 1.5ml and I'm using between 5 and 8 portions of snus during the day.
So when all is said and done, I think I've lost track of the hypothesized interconnection between the nicotine and the other alkaloids!
I'd have to agree with you OTD. A person with blood nic levels in the 36-48mg range would be starting of on the short side.
Just because it wasnt the Golden Egg for you a lot can be learned from your input and feelings. 30mg WTA liquid would fall short of your needs for satisfaction. In nic and possibly alkaloid levels. Since you are a snus user 48mg WTA may have still left you a bit short in the alkaloids but fine withthe nic content. The craving would be dependent on whats the most important to your body.
Yours is a good example of if WTA ever was produced, ratios of nic to alkaloid would be very important.
A lot can be learned, if not more, from results that didnt go as expected as ones that did.
Just because it wasnt the Golden Egg for you a lot can be learned from your input and feelings. 30mg WTA liquid would fall short of your needs for satisfaction. In nic and possibly alkaloid levels. Since you are a snus user 48mg WTA may have still left you a bit short in the alkaloids but fine withthe nic content. The craving would be dependent on whats the most important to your body.
Yours is a good example of if WTA ever was produced, ratios of nic to alkaloid would be very important.
A lot can be learned, if not more, from results that didnt go as expected as ones that did.
Just about the most important point here is that we all have individual needs. What makes me happy might make someone else ill. For sure, not everyone likes Java Stonewall (and ONLY Java for me!) as much as I do. Some also take to the salty, bitter taste of snus quicker than I did. My favorite tastes are sweet and salty; I do not like sour and bitter. But I've met people who do.
Each person needs to find what suits him/her best.
These alternatives are relatively inexpensive, so mistakes don't cost much. Nasal snuff is particularly cheap. There are several posts here meant to guide those just trying snus or snuff or dissolvables.
But this is also important, I think -- Look at what I like and works without inhaling smoke: Snus, dissolvables, nasal snuff, pipe tobacco. And look at what doesn't work for me: The patch, lozenges, nicotine gum, the nicotine inhaler. How are they different? The group that works all contain tobacco alkaloids and nicotine. The group that doesn't has nicotine without full-spectrum alkaloids.
WTA is as close as liquid can get, apparently, to duplicating the impact of smoking without burning anything!
Each person needs to find what suits him/her best.
These alternatives are relatively inexpensive, so mistakes don't cost much. Nasal snuff is particularly cheap. There are several posts here meant to guide those just trying snus or snuff or dissolvables.
But this is also important, I think -- Look at what I like and works without inhaling smoke: Snus, dissolvables, nasal snuff, pipe tobacco. And look at what doesn't work for me: The patch, lozenges, nicotine gum, the nicotine inhaler. How are they different? The group that works all contain tobacco alkaloids and nicotine. The group that doesn't has nicotine without full-spectrum alkaloids.
WTA is as close as liquid can get, apparently, to duplicating the impact of smoking without burning anything!
I must admit, as positive as the WTA feedback has been,
it seems that snus may have the upper hand.
In your list of what doesn't work (on it's own at least), presumably you'd
include vaping purified nicotine juice ?
Do you think you need to vape, as well as use snus, because snus don't have enough nicotine,
or is it that they they present too much claggy 'else' along with their proportion
of nicotine, such that vaping 'tops up' the clean nicotine requirement?
Given a lot of people can (and have) made cruder versions of DVap's WTA,
using less than his extremely-pure solvent techniques,
do you see this as a way forward to solving dissatisfaction with pure-nicotine.
Or do snus provide you with something WTA doesn't ?
it seems that snus may have the upper hand.
In your list of what doesn't work (on it's own at least), presumably you'd
include vaping purified nicotine juice ?
Do you think you need to vape, as well as use snus, because snus don't have enough nicotine,
or is it that they they present too much claggy 'else' along with their proportion
of nicotine, such that vaping 'tops up' the clean nicotine requirement?
Given a lot of people can (and have) made cruder versions of DVap's WTA,
using less than his extremely-pure solvent techniques,
do you see this as a way forward to solving dissatisfaction with pure-nicotine.
Or do snus provide you with something WTA doesn't ?
Hi exo
For me the snus comes very close to providing everything I need to avoid smoking the tobacco.
Nicotine, as well as the much cited desert feeling left by using vape alone is taken care for me by using snus. I continue with the vape at this time more for the psychological satisfaction. Feel, taste, flavors, vape rings and so forth.
My next personal experiment will be to reduce the nic level I use when I do vape. An earlier month long effort I made to reduce the nicotine level I vaped was attempted before I started using snus.
It was an utter fail.
Currently the reduction in the amount of liquid I vape while using snus is so large that I expect I should be able to reduce the nic level in the liquid I vape.
With that, I'm thinking that further research could very well produce a liquid with the proper balance of alkaloids to address the spectrum of addictive needs some of us have encountered. This would be a huge boon for the folks that don't care for the other ST products available.
I personally think snus does carry the upper hand by being closer to whole tobacco.
But, that may be just for me. Stonewall is 4.5mg nicotine, tastes good, but still leave me wanting where snus satisfies that itch. That makes me think that Stonewall is more refined and the process strips the alkaloids away. No doubt the nicotine is there.
I know what you mean OTD. I read all TB's posts, vids, a couple PM's and before we had gotten into all this snus was winning for me. With just vaping, I don't crave an analog, but I vape alot wanting something. Toss that portion in and I may not touch or even tthink about the PV for 1-2 hrs. That's significant for me. Very similar to WTA. WithWTA I didn't miss the snus.
So much has been learned from all this. Another big thanks to all who contributed in any way.
It all helps put the pieces of the puzzle together.
But, that may be just for me. Stonewall is 4.5mg nicotine, tastes good, but still leave me wanting where snus satisfies that itch. That makes me think that Stonewall is more refined and the process strips the alkaloids away. No doubt the nicotine is there.
I know what you mean OTD. I read all TB's posts, vids, a couple PM's and before we had gotten into all this snus was winning for me. With just vaping, I don't crave an analog, but I vape alot wanting something. Toss that portion in and I may not touch or even tthink about the PV for 1-2 hrs. That's significant for me. Very similar to WTA. WithWTA I didn't miss the snus.
So much has been learned from all this. Another big thanks to all who contributed in any way.
It all helps put the pieces of the puzzle together.
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