So - are we getting it or are we not - nicotine

[TropicalBob]

I heart you. Couple more thoughts: We're off tobacco. We hate Big tobacco. Why use a tobacco product? WTA.

A true tobacco product like snus or a scissored off piece of a little cigar contains all tobacco alkaloids, not present in commercial e-liquid.

And to make something even remotely as effective as DVap's treasured WTA liquid, I plan to soak a cigar piece in 48mg tasteless e-liquid (I have plenty of that on hand). Hope to get taste and nic hit.

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Good deal! Now, my question is, assuming it will have a decent tobacco flavor, will you be substituting it for another known source of WTA to see if it's effective or will you be using it in addition and judge by an overall satisfaction standpoint?

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

By the way, TBob, how's that GABA working out?

 

[olderthandirt]

T Bob, your idea of using small cigars has me with a mental image of perhaps an 801 atty w/ a Swisher Sweet sticking out

I know that's not what your talking about but the image gives me a grin just the same.

As always, looking forward to hearing how you fare with it!

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Poses the question, if it does work in releasing the WTA, how much would need to be vaped to replace a smoke? Can the original soak be condensed to a smaller package? If so, would it be safe at that level or would it need to be cut? Just musing, again .

 

[a2dcovert]

Doing a little soak of my own right now. Should be able to do a test tomorrow. Got some ideas of my own.

 

[olderthandirt]

Doing a little soak of my own right now. Should be able to do a test tomorrow. Got some ideas of my own.

All ears, er eyes, whatever...

 

[a2dcovert]

All ears, er eyes, whatever...

Well it aint soup yet, I'll let you know how it goes. I working off of TB's page here.

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Doing a little soak of my own right now. Should be able to do a test tomorrow. Got some ideas of my own.

.........

 

[TropicalBob]

TV, I think I can manipulate the nicotine level by soaking in various strengths of e-liquid, all the way up to 48mg. In the past, 48mg has given me heartburn. It's powerful.

In my experiments soaking loose tobacco to obtain liquid, I got good flavor -- which is what I was after -- but seemingly little nicotine and zero hit. But all those Premier, Eclipse, etc., jobs used packaged tobacco tubes (cigarettes) and though they had less nicotine than smoking a cigarette, they obviously produced some (see the docs on those items). I'm hoping I get similar results.

I would never suggest using loose tobacco of any variety in a cart. That would be a true atomizer killer and a filthy way to get vapor. But a wrapped little cigar? That might be the ticket. I'd prefer the 20 ring cigar to the 17 ring Capri, but will test several sizes in my 801, 901 and 510 models.

First will be a soak in plain VG. Then a soak in 48mg tasteless e-liquid.

I've measured the carts and believe a soaked little cigar snippet maybe a half-inch long will fit in there. We'll see.

 

[TropicalBob]

OTD: My mind conjured up a screw-on tube extension, with the mouthpiece plastic tip, an unfiltered cigarette in the tube, and threads to screw the tube onto the atomizer! That way, a user could just soak an entire cig and slip it into the tube. Should last days!

And if this works, I'm ordering a new atomizer for my dead e-cigar and another for my e-pipe. Those cores could take bigger chunks of real cigars for maximum flavor.

Vaping a Cohiba. Imagine.

 

[olderthandirt]

...Vaping a Cohiba. Imagine.

Simplicity, wondering now.
A piece of PG impregnated analog,
stuffed in a cartridge,
thin bit of poly-fill to hold back the tobacco...

 

[a2dcovert]

Simplicity, wondering now.
A piece of PG impregnated analog,
stuffed in a cartridge,
thin bit of poly-fill to hold back the tobacco...

OTD & TB, that's exactly what I have done. I put the tobacco loose into a 510 cart and let it soak in 24mg Virginia PG juice. After about 30 minutes I put in my Puff Buff plug, which is 8mm thick. That Nordic Ice tasted better this way than as snus in my mouth. I have vaped that cart down almost all the way then refilled it with straight virginia 24 and got a little more. I'm going to rinse the atty with PGA and see if I have done any damage.

By the way, on my 510, the large liquid reservoir with the small plug on top produces a very nice vape. I can load the cart with 15 drops from my 30ml bottle glass dripper in there and vape the cart dry. best vaping experience I've had so far.

 

[olderthandirt]

OTD & TB, that's exactly what I have done. I put the tobacco loose into a 510 cart and let it soak in 24mg Virginia PG juice. After about 30 minutes I put in my Puff Buff plug, which is 8mm thick. That Nordic Ice tasted better this way than as snus in my mouth. I have vaped that cart down almost all the way then refilled it with straight virginia 24 and got a little more. I'm going to rinse the atty with PGA and see if I have done any damage.

By the way, on my 510, the large liquid reservoir with the small plug on top produces a very nice vape. I can load the cart with 15 drops from my 30ml bottle glass dripper in there and vape the cart dry. best vaping experience I've had so far.

That so rocks a2d! Let us know how the atty tolerates this.

You'll have to start a new thread in the Cartridge Mod forum for another "best filler" idea

 

[a2dcovert]

That so rocks a2d! Let us know how the atty tolerates this.

You'll have to start a new thread in the Cartridge Mod forum for another "best filler" idea

I did a rinse of the atty and have reprimed it and put it back to use. It's going to be hard to tell after only 1 run how the atty was effected. I did notice the bottom of the plug was brown but the top was very normal after a run. I like the idea of TB's experiment. I'm confident that using the large cut RYO tobacco with a good "filter" plug should keep out any solids out of the atty. I'm not sure what fine particles might be pulled through the plug. If we assume that the WTA is disolved into the solvent a good filtering of the fluid should remove atty killing particles. I guess DVap would be able to answer that. I guess it makes me feel better just trying to do something.

That cartridge modders forum is a zoo. It's difficult to recommend a specific mod for the general public. The mod has to be designed for the a specific liquid viscosity and the atty voltage. I know the plugged liquid reservoir works for me just fine. The design I am using has been discussed at length already. You can lead a horse to water but...

I don't know how successful I was at getting anything of value from this vape but I know I did get the taste, I just don't know what else.

 

[olderthandirt]

hehe
The new cart mod suggestion was more tongue in cheek really

The zoo that indeed it is, imagine it!

"Hey everybody! Fill your carts with tobacco and e-liquid! I did! Nothing better!"

Followed by 3 days and 500 posts of tweaks and escalations

And with that, I've every intention of playing with it myself tomorrow just for the hoot of it all!

 

[DVap]

The analog plug soaked with 24 mg nic/pg has promise.

I can't put up a long post on this ridiculous netbook keyboard without screwing it up and ending up ...... off, so I'll have to wait till I get back home in a day or two.

One thing I might say before I hit the wrong key and close down my browser is this: Get hold of a pack of good, strong additive free analogs. Get hold of a pack of Natural American Spirit smokes.

I'll run the numbers for y'all when I get back.

 

[ladyraj]

Hi all, I was a heavy smoker for many, many years and thought eliquid had finally provided a replacement for a behavior I enjoyed so much. Well it worked for about 2 weeks...no ciggies at all, great energy, sense of pride I was back in control, etc. And then...crash and burn, something is missing. Started at 11 mg, went to 18mg, then 24 mg while increasingly drawing harder, longer, and faster and having problems wicking in carts from my need to feed. Went to dripping...liquid usage at 24 mg went up to (shamefully admits) 6-7 ml per day. Yikes this occurs over about a month. Something wasn't there, didn't fulfill this inherent need for...whatever. Began smoking a few ciggies a day, sometimes more, but no where near the 2 pack a day habit I had developed over 36 years. I have been using tobacco as a complement since that point.

I saw this thread eons ago but was irritated by the MAOI contentions (denial?) and was reminded of the topic by OTD...thanks for that and remembered TBob's posts. Wow, it's great to see that I'm not the only one.

The WTA factor (whole tobacco alkaloids???) has intriqued me and other than snus such as discreet, thunder frost, or swedish snus is there another avenue via Dvap that may fill the hole in my experience? Is there a magic potion or old formulation that is available for purchase?

I'm also intriqued by TBob's video with snus packets in the PV and the subsequent research by all.

I've read all of this thread at different times which may account for my confusion. Any help would be appreciated if one doesn't mind clarifying for me.

What's the magic bullet?

The plug sounds cool and I await results...thanks for sharing this is great!

 

[Mister]

DVap,

I don't know if this may help at all in simplifying the production of WTA but just in case:

I've come across an article at Metabolism and Disposition Kinetics of Nicotine ? Pharmacological Reviews which may have some useful information.

It includes a description of tobacco alkaloids (there's a diagram showing 15 molecular structures) and a note that "Of the minor alkaloids that have been studied, nornicotine, metanicotine, and anabasine have been shown to have significant pharmacologic activity (Clark et al., 1965)."

So if there were an easier way to capture just those three alkaloids, it might be that the result would still be effective WTA.

There's another note way down in the article which says that "we found that the clearance of nicotine was significantly slower in cigarette smokers compared with nonsmokers (Benowitz and Jacob, 1993)" and then cites a study showing 36% faster nicotine clearance in smokers after 7 days abstinence. A bit further down they note that "Recently, ß-nicotyrine, a minor tobacco alkaloid, was shown to effectively inhibit CYP2A6 in vitro (Denton et al., 2004)."

They're still guessing at what causes the slower metabolism of nicotine in smokers but it seems possible that the addition of ß-nicotyrine to the included alkaloids would have the effect of reducing the level of nicotine required by a vaper.

Another thing, are you following the thread at http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ow-much-nicotine-destroyed-during-vaping.html? I've made some posts there which perhaps should have been. on this thread. In particular, I think there is reason to increase your suggestion that absorption is 40% to a higher number.

 

[Vaporer]

I'll wait on DVap to get back, but the last thing he said was the things we use are polar.
I'd take that as the alkaloids arent coming out with a soak of PG,VG,PGA, or water.
I can see getting the nic and flavor, even though my test failed miserably. All I had was the absolute cheapest tobacco stuff possible. I'm not sure there is real tobacco in it!

Might be a large part of the spectrum will come out. More so than thinking alkaloids as specific. Where he went straight for them.

A little bit of it "all" would be better than plain PG/VG and snus in the event of a ban.