So - are we getting it or are we not - nicotine

[xybe]

Sorry if this seems like a hijack, feel free to have this post deleted.

Here is my question to the very knowledgeable people posting in this thread, any input is welcome.
Being that:

• To some of us vaping nicotine in e-juice is not an adequate substitute to smoking tobacco;
• There are other alkaloids present in tobacco that if vaped together with nicotine could be more effective as a means of quitting analogs;
• There is no way at the moment to purchase e-juice containing a combination of nicotine and the said alkaloids:

Wouldn't herbal vaporizers (yes, the ones used to vaporize that stuff) be an effective and practical means to deliver the substances present in analogs in a safer way than smoking?

Would heating tobacco intended for RYO (perhaps soaked in VG for better smoke production) to 190C release the desirable alkaloids along with nicotine?

I don't have access to snus, I currently smoke 5~7 analogs a day (vs 40~50 before I vaped) and I am already almost sold out on the idea of getting a non e-cig vaporizer (the Iolite, probably) and using it for its advertised purpose, vaporizing tobacco. I might be inhaling a ton of different substances as opposed to just a few with regular e-juice, but if it gets me once and for all off of analogs that is a no-brainer.

 

[DVap]

Sorry if this seems like a hijack, feel free to have this post deleted.

Here is my question to the very knowledgeable people posting in this thread, any input is welcome.
Being that:

• To some of us vaping nicotine in e-juice is not an adequate substitute to smoking tobacco;
• There are other alkaloids present in tobacco that if vaped together with nicotine could be more effective as a means of quitting analogs;
• There is no way at the moment to purchase e-juice containing a combination of nicotine and the said alkaloids:

Wouldn't herbal vaporizers (yes, the ones used to vaporize that stuff) be an effective and practical means to deliver the substances present in analogs in a safer way than smoking?

Would heating tobacco intended for RYO (perhaps soaked in VG for better smoke production) to 190C release the desirable alkaloids along with nicotine?

I don't have access to snus, I currently smoke 5~7 analogs a day (vs 40~50 before I vaped) and I am already almost sold out on the idea of getting a non e-cig vaporizer (the Iolite, probably) and using it for its advertised purpose, vaporizing tobacco. I might be inhaling a ton of different substances as opposed to just a few with regular e-juice, but if it gets me once and for all off of analogs that is a no-brainer.

It's pricey, but might do the job delivering tobacco alkaloids. 190°C is a bit below where many of the alkaloids probably boil, but a combination of sub-boiling heat and airflow might be sufficient as vaporization does occur below boiling.

Finely ground tobacco would probably work best, though adding VG might tend to inhibit alkaloid release.

 

[Vaporer]

Well, I'm not a big throat hit person. It does have a good throat hit for the given nic level but there is this residing flavor that tastes exactly like an analog. It is uncanny.
Kin suggested an A & B bottle, but after vaping it I really don't know how you would hide it. Its nothing like the nic eliquid you get from suppliers flavored or unflavored.
I did have a bottle early on that when vaped, it was in an orange flavor, it had a tobacco after taste. Very nice too. Wish I had more of it. Others noticed it too.
Tobacco flavor is not the same as an analog flavor.
The reason for my statement " It's Liquid Analogs".
It also has the same "satisfaction factor" you get from an analog that no eliquid I've ever found gives.

 

[rickghouse]

Imagine a tobacco extraction that instead of purifying to just nicotine, purifies to the tobacco alkaloids. All the thousands of extra chemicals are gone, but all the alkaloids (including presumably the MAIO's) remain. This might mix down with PG to a vaping liquid to be reckoned with.

While I can produce such a thing, I have no need to do it personally since plain nicotine works for me. I'd have a hard time offering a sample of such a liquid to somebody who isn't getting satisfaction from ecigs since I would be effectively asking that person to be a guinea pig.

I would love to be a guinea pig! I'm having a terrible time on nicotine & vapor alone. My body is screaming for that 'missing piece' that it is currently not geting by vaping!

Thanks for all the great posts, and please pm me if there is a chance of me testing your alkaloid juice (for laboratory experamental purposes only of course )

 

[IANAN]

Sorry if this seems like a hijack, feel free to have this post deleted.

Here is my question to the very knowledgeable people posting in this thread, any input is welcome.
Being that:

• To some of us vaping nicotine in e-juice is not an adequate substitute to smoking tobacco;
• There are other alkaloids present in tobacco that if vaped together with nicotine could be more effective as a means of quitting analogs;
• There is no way at the moment to purchase e-juice containing a combination of nicotine and the said alkaloids:

Wouldn't herbal vaporizers (yes, the ones used to vaporize that stuff) be an effective and practical means to deliver the substances present in analogs in a safer way than smoking?

Would heating tobacco intended for RYO (perhaps soaked in VG for better smoke production) to 190C release the desirable alkaloids along with nicotine?

I don't have access to snus, I currently smoke 5~7 analogs a day (vs 40~50 before I vaped) and I am already almost sold out on the idea of getting a non e-cig vaporizer (the Iolite, probably) and using it for its advertised purpose, vaporizing tobacco. I might be inhaling a ton of different substances as opposed to just a few with regular e-juice, but if it gets me once and for all off of analogs that is a no-brainer.

The Oxygen Vaporizer, from different company, is smaller less expensive handheld model.

Also the RJRT Eclipse seems to be on the market still, I have purchased them from 2 different Quick Trip Gas Stations.... It's actually the "traditional" cig I am smoking.

And there is the Ploom - if they ever get around to selling the darn thing.

We are looking for the so called "cleaner" nicotine/alkaloids though. In the case of the Eclipse and Iolite you are still getting 30-40+ % of the stuff you don't want, according to the reports.

 

[xybe]

We are looking for the so called "cleaner" nicotine/alkaloids though. In the case of the Eclipse and Iolite you are still getting 30-40+ % of the stuff you don't want, according to the reports.

Thanks for the replies, I had no idea about that 30-40%, bummer. I'll go back to lurking now, congrats to DVap on his research.

 

[IANAN]

See page 51 of this thread

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/nicotine/44958-so-we-getting-we-not-nicotine-51.html

Kin also is looking at a "natural flavor" (That's what I would call it Kin ) to add to e-liquid to simulate analogs better. He has started a new thread on it.

 

[DVap]

I would love to be a guinea pig! I'm having a terrible time on nicotine & vapor alone. My body is screaming for that 'missing piece' that it is currently not geting by vaping!

Thanks for all the great posts, and please pm me if there is a chance of me testing your alkaloid juice (for laboratory experamental purposes only of course )

I found that while I'd have a hard time asking, folks didn't have a hard time offering. I've got the foreseeable testing already lined-out.

Get thee to some good Swedish Snus, and you'll have most of what you're missing!

 

[Vaporer]

DVap, I think that line is getting kinda long...last time I looked it was from Miami to DC



The end is at the FDA's door

 

[IANAN]

XYBE- If you don't have access to Snus, as many govts have, foolishly IMO, baned it then check out what I am doing around page 51. The main suspect on what is missing is the Harmala Alkaloids found in tobacco.

 

[IANAN]

(Cat's Claw) Day two- Nov 14;

1. Desire to smoke- Still reduced. Cravings are even less strong than on day one. Greatest desire to smoke is still in morning. Typical strong urge lasts 30 seconds-3 minutes. A vape session and waiting through the crave appears to help. Going to shoot for under 5 cigarettes total on day 3.

2. Mental Awareness state (Mental Fog)- Less pronounced than on day one. Less pronounced loss of volition than on day one in the morning.

3. Anxiety (Relaxed state) and restlessness- period of excess energy similar to caffeine buzz, in the morning lasting only about 30-45 minutes. In general not as much anxiety. General feeling of well-being noted in mid-afternoon. With Tx noted that slight buzzed feeling tends to occur right after vaping or smoking. Almost feels like Tx is activating the nicotine and the buzz is caused by the high levels used prior to Tx.

4. Perceived GI (Gastro-intestinal) effects including effects on bowl movements- Still normal.

5. Effectiveness of and frequency of vaping sessions to reduce cravings- sessions still shortened. Especially effective when drinking coffee or eating chocolate prior to or during the session.

6. Number of traditional cigarettes consumed (If any)- 8

Likely that the increase in caffeine is causing buzz effect but no explanation on why it comes while smoking or vaping.

 

[rickghouse]

A word of advice: High voltage vaping is over-rated. Get a battery device based on the 18650 protected battery, it's a 3.6 volt rated battery, but it hits great. Regular batteries are just too under-powered to deliver, they can't maintain voltage that well under load, and thus really compromise the all important quantity.. wattage.

What devices use the 18650 protected battery?

 

[DVap]

What devices use the 18650 protected battery?

The one that I use is The Chuck.

 

[xybe]

XYBE- If you don't have access to Snus, as many govts have, foolishly IMO, baned it then check out what I am doing around page 51. The main suspect on what is missing is the Harmala Alkaloids found in tobacco.

Thanks IANAN, already reading it thoroughly, just didn't want to derail the thread any further.

 

[DVap]

XYBE- If you don't have access to Snus, as many govts have, foolishly IMO, baned it then check out what I am doing around page 51. The main suspect on what is missing is the Harmala Alkaloids found in tobacco.

At this point, to point to harmala alkaloids as the main suspect is premature, in my opinion. Tobacco contains one major alkaloid (nicotine), several minor alkaloids, and a host of trace alkaloids.

Harmala alkaloids, I believe, should be considered co-factors of interest, along with many others.

 

[IANAN]

DVap, I am basing Harmala Alkaloids on lit review of animal studies-- found at least 3 animal studies that support that the addition of Harman to nicotine produced effects.

But you are correct- there are other Alkolids in there that could do it also.

 

[sunset]

Just to let you know, I've been lurking and certainly enjoyed all the information you've brought to light.

I've just hit a big snag with yesterday being 1 month analog free with my hands shaking today and the day before only being able to sleep 3 hours. This is a symptom I haven't had before, only mild to more than mild cravings that I was making out pretty well with since I switch to 6 volt vapping @ 35mg. with my Chuck. I'm a 40 year 2 pack a day smoker and I thought I was doing pretty good up until this weekend with some cravings to be expected.

For the 1st time ever, I just tried a sample of snus - terrible and I hate to think of having to use this(s). But, the shaking has stopped and I feel more balanced.

I just feel I'm now in new territory to find the easiest way to finally quit smoking without
severe withdrawal and I wasn't expecting this reaction after a month.

Thanks again for all the information, I'm following it.

 

[olderthandirt]

...I've just hit a big snag with yesterday being 1 month analog free with my hands shaking today and the day before only being able to sleep 3 hours. ...

For the 1st time ever, I just tried a sample of snus - terrible and I hate to think of having to use this(s). But, the shaking has stopped and I feel more balanced.
....

Good morning sunset. You describe what quite a few of us have experienced.

The snus combined with vaping has been the perfect leveler for me. I started with the RJR Camel products available in the States, but after recommendations/suggestions from other members here I got a variety of Swedish snus to try. First can of my first order that I tried was of course one that is whats called an Extra Strong style. I'll leave it at it was way too much for me!

Check out the Smokeless Tobacco sub-forum. Some of the more recent threads might give you some ideas if you wanted to try snus further. Or PM me if you like.

Snus is just like e-liquid as far as tastes go. One persons ambrosia is anothers' spew!

 

[sunset]

Olderthandirt, Thank You! I will check that out. Now I'm hoping snus is just something occasionally to get me through to other side of quitting everything for good..no matter how long that takes, but gently(s).

No question - glad I had it this morning. Thanks again for the link.

 

[rickghouse]

The references to Tobacco Absolute have me very curious.

Is there a chance that it has the alkaloid package (minus the nicotine) that we need? If there's even a small hope, I'll buy it. But if anyone can tell me with reasonable certainty that the entire spectrum is removed, I won't waste my money.