So - are we getting it or are we not - nicotine

[Vaporer]

Well, H1N1 was touted as the next bubonic plague in possible death rates and you see how fast they acted.
On average the FDA approvals are 9-10yr studies over past history.
I can see them challenging the individual combinations, ratios, dose levels of the constituients till hell freezes over (or they are told to "let it go"). Even if they did give each a 1yr test, thats at least 100 yrs for approval.

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

As it is so easy to make a basic e-liquid by tobacco soak, the controllers might as well sign-off normal e-liquid, and WTA.

Standard rules of commerce should be followed and standard tax; any form of extra taxation, restriction in flavors or strength (to a point, say 70mg/ml), or any form of banning would be draconian.

Good point, kin. I hadn't thought of that, but I agree. They can't stop it on an individual level, so why not allow the safe manufacture of WTA and collect the associated revenue. That's not a new concept, either.

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Well, H1N1 was touted as the next bubonic plague in possible death rates and you see how fast they acted.

True. And more people will die this year of cigarette related causes than H1N1.

 

[kinabaloo]

Good point, kin. I hadn't thought of that, but I agree. They can't stop it on an individual level, so why not allow the safe manufacture of WTA and collect the associated revenue. That's not a new concept, either.

Wonder if LorAns flavors will get banned

Keep the real stuff available to save us the trouble. And if safety is the concern, it's the smart thing to do. But estrict dosage or price it high and the black maket and DIY will rule.

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Wonder if LorAns flavors will get banned

Keep the real stuff available to save us the trouble. And if safety is the concern, it's the smart thing to do. But estrict dosage or price it high and the black maket and DIY will rule.

Absolutely. You see how well the "war on drugs" is going.

 

[kinabaloo]

Absolutely. You see how well the "war on drugs" is going.

Many 'wars', even real ones, are not about 'winning' but sustained control and profit. Black ops to create the illusion of an enemy etc. Mediated reality and the true reality are often like night and day.

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Many 'wars', even real ones, are not about 'winning' but sustained control and profit. Black ops to create the illusion of an enemy etc. Mediated reality and the true reality are often like night and day.

Well said . Wish I was able to state such truths in as refined of a way. I may have to quote that .

 

[TropicalBob]

Uh, oh. We're slipping into FantasyLand here. E-smoking is hardly comparable to H1N1 in government's eyes. Nothing about e-smoking, or smoking alternatives, or NRT, will be "fast tracked." Smokers can quit or die. That's the choice -- and NRT products are widely available to help them quit. That's the FDA's position and it's not likely to change, given the increasing anti-smoking, anti-tobacco, anti-nicotine movement cresting as a tidal wave in America.

Understand that the FDA and others don't give a rats patootie about the dismal quit rate. If you want to quit, you quit. If you don't, you can die. Simple.

It's really pie-in-the-sky to think the FDA will embrace WTA. It will ... only after that specific chemical concoction has been thoroughly tested in clinical trials. Underground? Have at it. Again, no one cares if you soak tobacco in PG. It's commercial distribution that will not happen without regulation.

 

[Vaporer]

TB, not fantasy land. Just an example of what they can do.
Nothing to do with tobacco other than ban or prohibit will be fast tracked.
We are on the wrong side of the fence.
If it wasn't for the 1930's law protecting tobacco, it would be a home grown thing or black market item for sure.
There has never been a succesful ban on anything as long as there is a demand.
The net will be flooded "how to's". Some good, some not so good.

 

[kinabaloo]

The FDA like any other organisation or group of people, such as this forum even, has a multitude of views. Even in the FDA will be some people who see things pragmatically and consider risk-benfit analysis on health grounds. We'd do well to help those minded peple prevail. And that means winning the argument with logic and getting the general public onside.

If drugs to combat flus can be fast-tracked, so can alternatives to deadly smoking; it kills many millions every year, year after year. So reason should trump precedent and protocol when faced with death on a massive scale - because that's the reality, right here, right now.

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Ol' Doc DVap's Natural Relaxant and Mood Enhancer for your personal vaporizer

"These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease."

 

[DVap]

I've just finished getting myself back off WTA. With regular nic liquid to pick up the slack, it was only a moderately tense couple days, and now I feel fine.

Currently, I've got nothing on my plate except for a "set it and forget it" test of nicotine in various USP PG sources to check for development of that weird pink tinge that sometimes happens. Theory is that USP PG is more or less pure, and some variation exists. Other than that, I think I'll enjoy a chill for awhile.

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

I've just finished getting myself back off WTA. With regular nic liquid to pick up the slack, it was only a moderately tense couple days, and now I feel fine.

Currently, I've got nothing on my plate except for a "set it and forget it" test of nicotine in various USP PG sources to check for development of that weird pink tinge that sometimes happens. Theory is that USP PG is more or less pure, and some variation exists. Other than that, I think I'll enjoy a chill for awhile.

Jeeze, exploring the origins of pink tinge...it's a magical world we live in.... Seems kinda lowly after the WTA breakthrough, savin' the world from evil doers and all, but carry on. To chill for a while is well deserved . Still haven't got that wedding invite, though.

 

[TropicalBob]

DVap, your stuff is great. Just great. I'm still finishing up the original 24mg made from pipe tobacco -- and I love it. It's not too strong for me, yet can give me a punch in the head and a kick in the throat.

I've used a bit of the 48mg made from American Spirit, and overdosed -- so far -- four times. The overdose symptoms are extreme tiredness, a strong desire to lie down and not get up, and inability to focus. This is the kind of liquid that would require one of those "do not operate heavy machinery or attempt to drive a vehicle .." etc. warnings.

I've not had nausea, however, which was the case with two overdoses of stark snus.

This WTA is much, much better than alternatives that rely on tobacco giving up its chemicals when soaked in PG or VG. Dr. Jim Loi was quick to assure me that very little nicotine made the transfer during a soak, or cook, certainly nothing near the amount we use in normal e-liquid. And when I soak a snus and vaporize it in a cartridge, the nicotine has to be low because the snus only contains 6mg total to begin with.

Thus, the "homebrew" liquids are far less powerful sources of addictive nicotine than even moderate e-liquid. And the soaked liquids -- a dirty brown color and stinky -- have all the sensory appeal of snubbed-out cigarette butts floating in an ashtray full of rainwater.

A VG-soaked snus-in-a-cart is far more appealing and even has commercial potential for a snus manufacturer. The snus pouch just needs a LOT more nicotine than it presently has. (I plan to soak a 6mg Wine&Dine tasteless snus portion in 48mg tasteless e-liquid and add some Bickford Kahlua flavor to see what I get when I vaporize it.)

But your WTA? Out of the ball park!

I'll be sad to see my supplies used up. And I still have a friend who wants to try the 48mg for a few puffs (she was rocked by 24mg e-liquid a few weeks ago during a test). I think the bottom line on your liquid is that you found it: You found what's missing. And when the WTA is gone, we all return to a practice with a vital missing element. I'm glad you made it back safely.

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

A VG-soaked snus-in-a-cart is far more appealing and even has commercial potential for a snus manufacturer. The snus pouch just needs a LOT more nicotine than it presently has. (I plan to soak a 6mg Wine&Dine tasteless snus portion in 48mg tasteless e-liquid and add some Bickford Kahlua flavor to see what I get when I vaporize it.)

Ha, snus soaked in 48mg flavorless . Now, why didn't I think of that . Well, worth a try.

 

[olderthandirt]

I'll second that "glad ya made it back safely" DVap.

I probably should have tried some of that final batch of WTA to see if that worked better for me. But thanks to T Bob I've got the snus to pick up the slack.

Enjoy your pink-tinged chill sir!

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

I'll second that "glad ya made it back safely" DVap.

I probably should have tried some of that final batch of WTA to see if that worked better for me. But thanks to T Bob I've got the snus to pick up the slack.

Enjoy your pink-tinged chill sir!

Hey, olderthandirt . If you have any left, try a WTA vape with the snus. Put me in a happier place .

 

[olderthandirt]

I do have some left, but I'll have to doctor it up with some vanilla or whiskey flavoring. I seem to be the only one that didn't care for the taste of the 2nd batch...

Just no accounting for some peoples taste, right?

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Just no accounting for some peoples taste, right?

I had none, so it gave me a leg up .

 

[olderthandirt]

TV, am I space cadet or what? Are you snusing now as well?