So - are we getting it or are we not - nicotine

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Hoowee, TB....You'd make a heck of an infommercial guy. More than selling the cigar soak idea, I think you did a perfect job of summarizing the info contained in this excrusiatingly (spell check?) long and winding thread. You've presented the idea of alkaloid loss and what it means to a far larger crowd than would have ventured to our neck of the woods. You've done many helpful videos in the past, but I feel this is the most significant. You got the word out to many people that are struggling and don't know why. That's what I see in it. Even if a suitable home WTA extraction isn't realized, at least we know why the PV isn't working so well for some of us. Ok, back to business...How much e-liquid did you use in the soak and did the cigar absorb most of it? Do you feel a nic/pg solution would work better than a nic/pg/vg solution? How long of a soak do you see as beneficial?.....Did I forget anything?.....Where am I?....How did I get here?....When did I start drooling, again...

 

[olderthandirt]

Hey T Bob. Completely second TV's appraisal of this latest vid. Great stuff sir.

T Bob. DVap, et al... if I've missed it that shouldn't come as a surprise but, are there any thoughts as to what range of alkaloids these simple soaks may be getting!

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Hey T Bob. Completely second TV's appraisal of this latest vid. Great stuff sir.

T Bob. DVap, et al... if I've missed it that shouldn't come as a surprise but, are there any thoughts as to what range of alkaloids these simple soaks may be getting!

I was wondering that, too. If I regularly smoke 2 cigarettes an hour and that gives me so much x-factor, how much and how long would I need to vape to receive the same amount in an e-liquid? At 20% of an analog (Re: DVap) per vape, either the x-factor e-liquid would need condensed, or I'd be a fog machine trying to play catch-up. My thinking......looking forward to DVap showing me how wrong I am......Please, DVap, let me be wrong...... Thanks in advance.

 

[a2dcovert]

I 3rd TV & OTD'S observations. Outstanding work TB. Look forward to further enlightnment.

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

I 3rd TV & OTD'S observations. Outstanding work TB. Look forward to further enlightnment.

Speaking of enlightenment, your snus order should be in soon, huh?

 

[DVap]

OTD.. the simple soaks depend highly on minimum liquid volume acting on maximum potency tobacco product. I've loosely estimated that under ideal conditions, around 8 mg/mL of WTA might be realized in a vape.

Be careful of my loose estimations, btw, they've got a lot of slop built in!

8 mg/mL WTA might not seem like a lot, but over time, it might help establish a baseline "mood elevation" that even if not ideal, might still be notably better than having none. I'm treading water in the realm of speculation here.

Does anybody know what the strongest snus out there is, and how many mg of nicotine is quoted in what mass of snus?

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Does anybody know what the strongest snus out there is, and how many mg of nicotine is quoted in what mass of snus?

So far as I've seen: Oden's Extra Stark @ 17mg/portion (0.94 gr. tobacco/portion).

 

[DVap]

DVap: Agree on your points, but I ran up against YouTube's 10-minute limit. Note that the edited version is 9:59:83. Oh my. I was just too gabby, I guess.

Your gab is kinda necessary.. it works, it adds to the videos. Considering breaking it into two-part presentation to allow you to hit the points you're after without rushing it?

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Oh, while I twiddle my thumbs waiting for my relief to get here, I thought I'd dispel any rumors that I have any previous knowledge of anything pertaining to what I had speculated on in an earlier post regarding the use of enzymes for the extraction of said 'baccy loids:

Enzymes

Salivary amylase breaks starch (a polysaccharide) down to maltose (a disaccharide).
Bicarbonate ions in saliva act as buffers, maintaining a pH between 6.5 and 7.5.

exo, why didn't you say that ?
​

​

 

[a2dcovert]

Well, here are the results of my mad-scientist routine. I took 2 packets of snus, 30mm x 12mm x 4mm (portion?), I put 1.5ml of VG and 1.5ml of PGA into a graduated cylinder. I left this untouched for 24hr.

Tonight I took a probe and applied pressure to the snus packs to compress them and mix the extractions with the surounding liquid. I then transferred the liquid into another container. I took the snus packets out of the cylinder and squeezed the packets to remove all the liquid that I could, this liquid was noticable much darker than the surrounding liquid. I then transferred the whole liquid mixture to another bottle using a funnel with a slightly thick cloth as a filter.

The resulting liquid was approximately 2.3mm of fluid. To this I mixed in 5mm of my Virginia mix 24mg.

My first impression was very good. The Nordic Ice has a of menthol in it and I was tasting the snus in my vapor. The second impression was this mixture is way too thin for the cart configuration I was using as the atty was leaking. That can be fixed, ie the PGA was 50% of the mix.

My main goal was to determine that I could transfer the taste of the snis to the juice. Even over the taste of the virginia the snus taste was definately there. This was making the vape experience similar to smoking. If I get nothing else, I will like to be able to vape at more true to life taste.

So there you go. A totaly unscientific experiment satisfied me the viability of the process, (not that I had any doubt due to the work you guys have been doing).

 

[TropicalBob]

TV is right about the strongest snus. I've got some. Really powerful and only advised on a full stomach. 17mg per portion.

The cigar pieces did not like the viscosity of vegetable glycerine. I covered two pieces in a spoon, and, after eight hours, they still had not completely turned black with full absorption. So I left them soaking overnight. On the other hand, I put about 1ml of 48mg liquid on a cigar piece and it went -- slurp -- and was absorbed in a half hour or so.

That 48mg piece was better in all ways. Tonight, I've been refilling a cigar piece by using DVap's 48mg WTA liquid. Woo-wee, good liquid.

In my opinion, the snus soak is superior to the tobacco piece soak. The cigar piece also disintegrated when I tried to remove it after use. Yuck. The snus comes out, intact, in its little teabag.

DVap and I have both posted some cautionary statements in comments below the video. Thanks for the kind words, guys. Almost every take I made, speaking extemporaneously, had to be redone because of audio problems. Very frustrating morning and I knew I'd leave out some details that needed to be included.

 

[a2dcovert]

I appreciate the results TB, I can only imagine the frustration of the production. Isn't technology wonderful (when everything works!).

In your cigar piece vape what did you use to isolate the tobacco from the atty?

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Good info, TBob, answers my questions .

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Glad to hear ya got a good tastin' vape, a2d .

 

[olderthandirt]

OTD.. the simple soaks depend highly on minimum liquid volume acting on maximum potency tobacco product. I've loosely estimated that under ideal conditions, around 8 mg/mL of WTA might be realized in a vape.
...
8 mg/mL WTA might not seem like a lot, but over time, it might help establish a baseline "mood elevation" that even if not ideal, might still be notably better than having none. I'm treading water in the realm of speculation here.
...

Well, here are the results of my mad-scientist routine. ...
So there you go. A totaly unscientific experiment satisfied me the viability of the process, (not that I had any doubt due to the work you guys have been doing).

So what I'm getting from all you innovators is that the snus soak has a chance at covering the bases to some degree with respect to WTA recovery?

Simply augment the results of the soak with the appropriate nic liquid...

 

[gjrhine]

I think a cartridge a day at $1 per and $1 per ml of eliquid are all exaggerations.

 

[DVap]

So what I'm getting from all you innovators is that the snus soak has a chance at covering the bases to some degree with respect to WTA recovery?

Simply augment the results of the soak with the appropriate nic liquid...

Or use the nic liquid AS the soak liquid...

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

...........................k......!!






Not you, DVap. Must have posted 'bout the same time....

 

[olderthandirt]

Or use the nic liquid AS the soak liquid...

Ok mister waddaya trying to do here anyway?

Keep things simple?




Oh yeah, I'm simple so it follows I should do things simply so if ...

Got it...

 

[Vaporer]

TBob, darn nice video.
If you do a part 2 of this may I suggest stressing the heating vs combustion as the major contributor of the baddies. One replier had a comment and there seems to be some confusion among people unless its specifically spelled out. I heard what you said abt the 4000 but some will say you are just getting another way with vaping not paying attention to the true diff.

Well done !