Soft Cap Turbos for 808 have Arrived!!!!!

[miss MiA]

I'm not up against the 5V/+ dilemma myself atm (just haven't been using HV lately), but was wondering if either of the following might address it decently, just to get some options on the books for those who either A.] like/prefer using a passthrough; or B.] don't want to retire their HV mods:

~~ Think I read that there are 3.7V passthroughs available in other style/s (510 maybe?), so, one of those plus appropriate adapter; or

~~ Cool/increase airflow via addition of a normally unnecessary/unwanted, possibly redundant adapter to an existing HV setup (whether already KR8 or adapted to be). Such as a 901 batt to 808 adapter (they do exist, or can instead be made from 901 charging adapters; here are some sources if anyone wants 'em). Not sure which other adapters may have both compatible threading and add airflow to this setup, but maybe even a KR8 batt to GreenCig, or KR8 to 510 adapter -- the former just provides the additional air channel needed, and the latter I (others too iirc) found out inadvertently does the same thing for KR8 to GC as well as specific target of 510.

I think my own almost-constant use of adapters, now and also when I was using a 5V mod most of the time, probably has a lot to do with my relative lack of a burn issue (with regular cartos anyway. Don't have any Turbos yet, and have only a few packs of premiums, received either in error or as surprise upgrade. Not dissected yet, but probably will for heck of it).

 

[jazzguy]

Belletrist,
Well I guess that is good and then again - bad. I vape at work pretty much most of the day using a USB passthrough at my desk, and when at home watching the tube as well, using a 2 amp USB wall mount power supply (hate having to run and recharge batts -seems like they always run out in the most inopportune moments).
That being said - I do like a cloud of vape which is one of the reasons I use a 5-volt passthrough but I have noticed that premium carts (different supplier) do not fair as well (get kind of burnt pretty quick) but produce massive clouds of vaper.
Hummm - might have to modify the passthroughs, such as put in series a variable resistor to get that happy sweet spot.
Now to find USB connectors, a vapers life of tinkering is never done

I built myself a variable voltage power supply with USB out. It's not all that hard to do. I can go 2.5V to 10V at up to 2.5A (not that you'd ever want to run a PT at 10V, mind you). For most of my flavors, 3.8-3.9 is actually my perfect sweet spot with Turbos, but I have a few flavors that like 4.1 best.

 

[Drozd]

Belletrist,
Well I guess that is good and then again - bad. I vape at work pretty much most of the day using a USB passthrough at my desk, and when at home watching the tube as well, using a 2 amp USB wall mount power supply (hate having to run and recharge batts -seems like they always run out in the most inopportune moments).
That being said - I do like a cloud of vape which is one of the reasons I use a 5-volt passthrough but I have noticed that premium carts (different supplier) do not fair as well (get kind of burnt pretty quick) but produce massive clouds of vaper.
Hummm - might have to modify the passthroughs, such as put in series a variable resistor to get that happy sweet spot.
Now to find USB connectors, a vapers life of tinkering is never done

I'd actually try them first at 5V and see if you like em... though I respect Belle and all...from simply a math standpoint they should actually be a little cooler than the standard cartos and quite a bit cooler than premiums...
The math:
at 5V:
premium........10W
Standard.......8.33W
Turbo............8.06W

Wattage translates to heat which translates to volume of vapor..that 5V "sweet spot" that most people refer to is in actuality between 8-10W..

lol that being said I like my cartos at 6V which is a whopping 12W and should be 11.61W with the turbos...but I'm topping them of quite frequent to keep the burning at bay

 

[jazzguy]

I agree with you on the math, Drozd, but there are other factors in play. Design differences beyond resistance can affect things as well (airflow, materials, etc). If you go by the pure math, it wouldn't make sense that a Turbo at 8.06W would put out comparable vapor to a premium at 10W, but if you compare them side by side (same juice and power source), they do.

Heat comes into play for sure on vapor production, but it's not the ONLY factor. There are ways to tweak heat beyond pure wattage manipulation.

I'd actually try them first at 5V and see if you like em... though I respect Belle and all...from simply a math standpoint they should actually be a little cooler than the standard cartos and quite a bit cooler than premiums...
The math:
at 5V:
premium........10W
Standard.......8.33W
Turbo............8.06W

Wattage translates to heat which translates to volume of vapor..that 5V "sweet spot" that most people refer to is in actuality between 8-10W..

lol that being said I like my cartos at 6V which is a whopping 12W and should be 11.61W with the turbos...but I'm topping them of quite frequent to keep the burning at bay

 

[Drozd]

I agree with you on the math, Drozd, but there are other factors in play. Design differences beyond resistance can affect things as well (airflow, materials, etc). If you go by the pure math, it wouldn't make sense that a Turbo at 8.06W would put out comparable vapor to a premium at 10W, but if you compare them side by side (same juice and power source), they do.

Heat comes into play for sure on vapor production, but it's not the ONLY factor. There are ways to tweak heat beyond pure wattage manipulation.

oh I agree that airflow will definitely affect them as well as density and amount of filler..as far as vapor production...but the wattage and heat produced is usually simply a matter of resistance and voltage..
what some may like others might find too intense...or what some may find to intense others might find perfect...theres alot of personal preference in that...
What I was getting at is before having to tweak and adjust for something before you get it because one person finds it too intense...you should try it out first..you might like it as it is...not to mention prefered flavors come into play alot there too..

 

[Mak]

Drozd,

I will try them out first for sure, it just that I have recently got to the 5 volt stage from running batteries. Kind of like - "ahhh man now I have to go back".
It really wouldn't take a whole lot to drop .7 to .9 of a volt.
I do understand electronics as I write electrical diagnostic manuals for a living.
I just wonder if the heating coil is larger on these new turbo carto's which would cause an increase in resistance. Also how does the PG/VG factor in? Do they attribute to the resistance?
Are these carto's being measured dry or wet?
Have not measured them myself as these that I have ordered are a first for blank's.
Also if my mind is working good this morning - does not heat also effect resistance?
When PG/VG is heated will that also effect resistance?
I do believe that the resistance is not static but variable do to conditions and also that the coil is larger. A larger coil would produce more vapor due to a larger surface to liquid contact. Has anyone checked with an DVOM the actual working voltage and amperage?
Yea need to go back to my schooling (books, books, where are my books?). Would not Joule's laws attribute better than Ohm's law?

 

[Belletrist]

they're being measured dry--i only measure blanks. the thing with the heat--you'll notice the external shell of these cartos doesn't get hot the way standards and other-brand-premiums do. so while they are producing less 'total' heat than standards/premiunms, most of that heat is being channeled more efficiently into vapor. i do think these are less overwhelming than the other brand prems at 5V, but imo (and in the opinion of several others) they're still a bit much at 5V. (i am not an electrician or engineer, though. )

 

[lorikay13]

right...but what if the Great A'Tuin makes a sharp turn and the Disc wobbles.? Technically wouldn't the current bypass your USB port completely and come flying out your .... ?

seriously though ....this is a GREAT thread ! Thank you all......maybe if I read it enough times I will finally understand it all. I am more mechanically inclined..take it apart...put it back together....make it go. Electicity is indistinguishable from magic to me...I close my eyes when I turn anything on in case something bad happens. (I really did fix my vacuum cleaner though...using Marine Blue foam...made little cups that fit over the roller and act as a filter for the bearing housing without putting any drag on the unit as a whole).

squeek?

yes....i do have a point relevant to this thread. I had actually asked in another carto thread about the issue of heat/math/other variables. So I am happy to see it addressed here since my main question about the turbo carts is rather the fact that they DO have much more filling and it is much more densely packed could be one of the reasons they run cooler as well as or combined with the difference in resistance? So in practical terms...using language that Nanny Oog can understand....ARE there any tweaks that would give better performance (in my case I'm talking about better activation of flavor components...I vape weird stuff...like Rosewater and Violet and the flavors are just not coming through) without defeating the purpose.....purpose being, in my understanding, longer life of carto and battery and less "burn out" ? Unfortunately bearing in mind that the darn filling is glued into these thing! Ben....I hope these new ones are sans glue or I may have to have a talk with the Wizards!

 

[Mak]

Actually, after reading this and a few other threads on voltages and vapor production, I have come to the understanding that an atomizer or cartomizer heating coil uses the e-liquid for cooling, if not the coil would burn up.
A resistor uses a body to expel the heat thus allowing it to function in a circuit without burning up (of course there are designed parameters of the resistor to be used such as voltage, amperage and duration).
Sort of like a nuclear reactor requires water for cooling or a meltdown would presume.
I suppose the new turbo-carts have a better wicking ability which in turn would allow better cooling characteristics. What we in the vaping world are using is the byproduct of that transformation.
Not hotter as in higher voltage but more efficient. Like when a cart gets low on liquid you get a burnt taste as that is actually what is going on as it is losing its coolant and in a opposite view, when an atty or cartomizer gets flooded, to much cooling is taking place which causes little to no vapor production.

Now if I can just check these bad boys out... Monday ...

 

[Gribeau]

Riffing on Belle's efficiency hypothesis... how does the heating element work? More specifically, what are the design differences between a premium and the turbo? I haven't seen pics of the new atomizer, just the one Lori posted of the wick and batting.

I ask because if there has been a design revision that makes better use of the heat generated it would explain why the vapor production is still good with significantly reduced waste heat. To make an absurd example, it doesn't matter if you're generating 80 watts of power when 75 of it is being lost as waste instead of used to vaporize the liquid.

Lori, you automatically rock for advertising the Grim Squeeker, but you've really got to learn the accent. The proper pronunciation is SQUEEK, you need a bit more hollowness and finality. Gotta maintain standards if you're going to be an anthropomorphic personification.

 

[Belletrist]

Based on the consistency of flavor/vapor, I would bet that the hardcap Turbos do in fact have superior wicking, and that combined with the additional liquid capacity and perhaps improved airflow=better (more consistent) performance than premiums.

Grib, the basic differences between a "premium" and a "turbo" as I understand them:

The premiums offer lower resistance=more heat. To offset that, they have increased (but not necessarily improved) air flow. I say not necessarily improved because I and at least one other experienced vaper (Hai Jazz!) have observed that premiums can turn juice-volcano on you unexpectedly... because you can literally suck the juice right out through the mouth hole if conditions are right, something I haven't observed in standards or turbos. The lower resistance is accomplished via a change in the atomizer wire--it's larger/thicker.

The premiums seem to have a slightly lower juice capacity than standard cartos and a significantly lower capacity than turbos. .9 ml for premiums, 1 ml for standards, 1.2-1.4 ml for turbos.

The premiums externally are almost indistinguishable from standard cartomizers--perhaps slightly taller but not visible to the naked eye as with hardcap turbos. Hard cap turbos also have a smaller hole in the battery end, and smaller airflow notches in the threading. (I read that the soft caps have larger airflow notches so I will be interested to see how this affects them.)

The premiums and the turbos both seem to have an atty wire/airflow tube that is taller than the filler, as compared to standard cartomizers.

I've also noticed that the Turbo filling seem to compact as the number of refills goes up. That's one reason I suspect (but do not know) that they might not be reuseable after washing as many times as a standard carto. I think this feature probably relates to the better wicking capabilities though, and considering the number of refills I get from these without diminished taste/performance before washing, I think it's a more than fair trade off. So I haven't tried washing before performance drops off because I'm content to cap and save them for now, and try a good wash later to see the results.

 

[Gribeau]

I think I just got renamed to Grim. Weirdness.

I'm starting to think it's overly confusing trying to compare cartos between vendors without specifying which place you're referring to. You've got multiple places throwing around terms like regular and premium, so that's how we refer to them, but I'm getting the impression not all premiums are created equal.

All I've used thus far are premiums from another vendor. My sample size is small, I'm cycling through a mere 15 cartos at the moment, so I can't claim to have a representative sample. With that caveat stated, my soft and hardcaps both appear to hold well over 1ml. I'm basing that statement on the fact that I can definitely put more than a cap of liquid in them when they're dry. The couple of times I felt the need to dripfill they took somewhere in the neighborhood of 25-30 drops. I haven't had any leakage problems using either method, so I don't think I'm overfilling them very much.

I have noticed that my hardcaps tend to get a bit hotter on the outside than the softcaps. Yes, the notches around the perimeter of the hardcaps are smaller than those on the soft. The center hole is definitely smaller on the hardcap version.

I seem to empty those hot ones faster but I haven't noticed much vapor production difference, so this observation may just be my brain playing tricks on me.

 

[lorikay13]

funny you should mention different vendor...I was just going to ask a question about that but then realized that this is the VaporNine subforum so I'll go ask it at the KR8 subforum.

Pay attention Ben....I have noticed some QC problems with these Turbo hard caps...of course all I have right now is the first batch with the glue on/in them. The new ones will be different,right Ben??? ANyway....what I have noticed is that there is a real inconsistancy in the amount of filling...and it seems to make a big difference. That picture I posted was out of a carto that had filling all the way up to the top of the heating element and completely covering the wick. Most of them have about 1/3 less filling...I find that the ones that last the longest have filling that comes about half way up the carto and leaves a good bit of the element and wick exposed.

anybody have any thoughts about this and what it might mean in the ultimate sceme of things ?

tip:take off the cap and replace it with the flat-tip mouth piece from a 901 cartride. They are dirt cheap..just buy blanks. You may need to trim them down a little if you have a carto with filling that is too high.

 

[syntaxevasion]

no glue on new ones far as i can tell so far, i told them NOT ACCEPTABLE since it was causing issues

you like the whistle tip 901 for sake of removing and refilling, or the feel (or both)?

The new soft cap ones are easy to remove with just a finger nail.. the more feedback the better..thanks for letting me know about the QC on some of them--need as much feedback as possible so if anybody has any issues please pm me or send an email, post a thread or whatever-- just make sure you get a hold of me! The more detailed I can get about the frequency and characteristics of any anomaly in assembly/production the better.

 

[Katya]

no glue on new ones far as i can tell so far, i told them NOT ACCEPTABLE since it was causing issues

you like the whistle tip 901 for sake of removing and refilling, or the feel (or both)?

The new soft cap ones are easy to remove with just a finger nail.. the more feedback the better..thanks for letting me know about the QC on some of them--need as much feedback as possible so if anybody has any issues please pm me or send an email, post a thread or whatever-- just make sure you get a hold of me! The more detailed I can get about the frequency and characteristics of any anomaly in assembly/production the better.

Isn't it nice when a supplier asks his customers to complain as much and as loud as possible so that he can make a great product even better? It's so refreshing!

Ben, you're a mensch and you deserve all the praise you've been getting recently from everybody who's tried your Turbos.

I promise to give you my feedback as soon as I get my package (tomorrow, perhaps?)

 

[Mak]

Although this is my first order from Ben and Vapor nine, I am excited to try these cartos out. I actually went back to using my 501 stuff yesterday due to none of the cartos I have seem to be working properly.
My order should be in today as tracking says so. Unfortunately I will be at work when they arrive.
Will post some type of response when I try them out.
Ben, If you could it would be nice if you can carry the empty 901 tips for those of us who like to do one stop shopping. I am using some 501 whistle tips in cartos but they are a little lose.

 

[Belletrist]

All I've used thus far are premiums from another vendor. My sample size is small, I'm cycling through a mere 15 cartos at the moment, so I can't claim to have a representative sample. With that caveat stated, my soft and hardcaps both appear to hold well over 1ml.

That's interesting. Most people I've asked about the Premium soft caps concur with the 1ml/slightly less reading on them.

I have noticed that my hardcaps tend to get a bit hotter on the outside than the softcaps. Yes, the notches around the perimeter of the hardcaps are smaller than those on the soft. The center hole is definitely smaller on the hardcap version.

That's really interesting, because I suspect the other-brand hard caps are the same manufacturer as the Turbos, and also because I (and plenty of others) experience the soft caps getting pretty darn hot. However, since all the other-brand-hardcaps begin their lives as factory filled, there's no tellin.

I seem to empty those hot ones faster but I haven't noticed much vapor production difference, so this observation may just be my brain playing tricks on me.

That doesn't surprise me, I get about the same vapor production from both models. I am surprised, though, that you're emptying the hardcaps faster. Not disbelieving mind you, because I haven't tested them extensively, but since they're visually practically identical to Turbos I would have expected the opposite.

I have noticed some QC problems with these Turbo hard caps...of course all I have right now is the first batch with the glue on/in them. The new ones will be different,right Ben??? ANyway....what I have noticed is that there is a real inconsistancy in the amount of filling...and it seems to make a big difference. That picture I posted was out of a carto that had filling all the way up to the top of the heating element and completely covering the wick. Most of them have about 1/3 less filling...I find that the ones that last the longest have filling that comes about half way up the carto and leaves a good bit of the element and wick exposed.

Ditto--I've noticed this too. And actually I have a guess at why the ones with the proportionally higher wick/wire perform better, but... I'd hate to make Scottbee bash his head into the keyboard again, so I'll wait for someone sciencey to chime in.

 

[wisteelersfan]

Real quick observation on the above mentioned QC issue with the hard cap turbos. It may be dumb luck, but I've filled 15 of the soft cap ones now and each and ever one has what looks to be the same level of batting in it with just about an 1/8" of wick/wire exposed above that. And only one has had the airtube off center. Just my experience so far. I'm not real "sciencey" though and I'm happy to admit that.

 

[syntaxevasion]

I'm having a hard time picturing the wire wick deal you're talking about (lasting longer?).. Could you explain so I can understand better? I know you're a good writer Belle so there may be hope

I'll see about my manufacturer filling them a little more consistently (perhaps around 1.1 ml?)

Ben

 

[wisteelersfan]

Ben, I'm pretty sure we're all referring to the filler material/batting inside the blanks. I've noticed some other ones I've had in the past would have the filler all the way up and sometimes over the little fabric wick that runs down the center. Others would barely fill half the cart. All of these new turbos I've filled seem to have about 1/8"(eyeballed measurement) of that wick exposed over the top of the filler. I have no idea if that's the way it's intended but it is at least consistent and in my case working very well. That's about as "sciencey" as I can get though.